US 'bunker-buster' not powerful enough against Iran

[SQ8]

How many MOAB's can the B-2 carry? I dont think any other aircraft in the US inventory has been tested with the weapon.

 

[VCheng]

Well short of an invasion scenario, if the idea is to just bomb Iran till their nuclear capabilities are diminished piling up some rocks at the entrance won't do it till you don't destroy a hypothetical underground lab.

Not piling up the rocks Sir.

Air supply, water supply, power supply, access roads, the whole lot. That denies the effective use of underground facilities.

---------- Post added at 09:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 AM ----------

How many MOAB's can the B-2 carry? I dont think any other aircraft in the US inventory has been tested with the weapon.

About 75,000 lbs internally and additional 60,000 lbs externally if needed (so 3 MOABs internally.)

 

[Awesome]

You'd be surprised at just how accurately reproducible it is, but let's just say that it works.

Judging from the amount of misses the US military makes, I'm pretty sure they can't throw a flying drill attached to a missile and make it hit the same 3 foot wide burrow hole twice.

 

[VCheng]

Judging from the amount of misses the US military makes, I'm pretty sure they can't throw a flying drill attached to a missile and make it hit the same 3 foot wide burrow hole twice.

Those "misses" are usually the result of adding in non-smart inventory to the weapons mix, and should not be taken as a measure of the lack of resolve, competence or ability to achieve the accuracy.

 

[Awesome]

Not piling up the rocks Sir.

Air supply, water supply, power supply, access roads, the whole lot. That denies the effective use of underground facilities.

You're still thinking along the lines of a Saddam hiding in a hole in the ground. A normal bomb would have done the trick. There's no doubt a lot of utility in the overall strategy of destroying entrances but the question here is about the bunker buster which assumes that the entrance cannot be targeted or there is no point to targeting it. If the US is not invading Iran there is no point to deny it access to a bunker for a month to an underground lab that can keep their nukes intact till a bulldozer can come and pave way to it again.

---------- Post added at 06:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 PM ----------

Those "misses" are usually the result of adding in non-smart inventory to the weapons mix, and should not be taken as a measure of the lack of resolve, competence or ability to achieve the accuracy.

No, that's why they are building a bigger, better bomb, not aiming for the same hole twice.

 

[VCheng]

You're still thinking along the lines of a Saddam hiding in a hole in the ground. A normal bomb would have done the trick. There's no doubt a lot of utility in the overall strategy of destroying entrances but the question here is about the bunker buster which assumes that the entrance cannot be targeted or there is no point to targeting it. If the US is not invading Iran there is no point to deny it access to a bunker for a month to an underground lab that can keep their nukes intact till a bulldozer can come and pave way to it again.

Please note that there are other ways of getting area-denial "technologies" to underground facilities in addition to just big bombs.

No, that's why they are building a bigger, better bomb, not aiming for the same hole twice.

Well, bigger and better bombs are just one aspect of a broad process of continuous refinement and improvement of all technologies.

 

[SQ8]

I believe the hit on Taji 1 should be relevant to this discussion.. It was a MASSIVE bunker in Iraq which has been unscathed by multiple hits using both precision and dumb bombs.
It was finally taken out by F-111's using the biggest PGM then the GBU-28..
It was figured that even that would have less of chance(as there is being doubted for the GBU-43) of successfully taking out Taji-1.
The bomb was guided by laser through an OPENING FOR A VENTILATION SHAFT(1x1 m). The result was Taji 1's massive blast doors being blown out from the Inside(probably meaning that all those in there were dead).
This was the precision back in 1991... that is 21 years ago!
I do not believe the Iranians will not have taken precautions for such contingencies but there are always weaknesses to exploit.

for reference this is a GBU-28 on a F-111.

 

[VCheng]

I believe the hit on Taji 1 should be relevant to this discussion.. It was a MASSIVE bunker in Iraq which has been unscathed by multiple hits using both precision and dumb bombs.
It was finally taken out by F-111's using the biggest PGM then the GBU-28..
The bomb was guided by laser through an OPENING FOR A VENTILATION SHAFT(1x1 m). The result was Taji 1's massive blast doors being blown out from the Inside(probably meaning that all those in there were dead).
This was the precision back in 1991... that is 21 years ago!
I do not believe the Iranians will not have taken precautions for such contingencies but there are always weaknesses to exploit.

In addition to traditional delivery methods, small, slow, guidable ordnance can be flown through a maze of shafts with great accuracy too.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

In addition to traditional delivery methods, small, slow, guidable ordnance can be flown through a maze of shafts with great accuracy too.

I did not get the bold part..How is it possible?

 

[VCheng]

I did not get the bold part..How is it possible?

Does a bomb always have to be delivered to its target at high speed?

If a long ventilation shaft has several grates and angles along its path, one can send in a series of slower, actively guided munitions, the first wave clearing the obstacles so that the second wave can reach the target unhindered.

Any more details are beyond the scope of this discussion.

 

[Hack-Hook]

About 75,000 lbs internally and additional 60,000 lbs externally if needed (so 3 MOABs internally.)

well one time in a galaxy Far Far away Master Yoda said
that size does not matter but in this special case I guess
size does matter to some extent I guess somewhere I read
that right now internal bay on B-2 are not compatible with
this bomb and they are working on modifying the bays door
so a B-2 can carry up to 2 of these bombs .

 

[Hack-Hook]

well my problem is not with the precision of small bomb they can be
precise no doubt but when you made the bomb10 time bigger and
heavier then it will become far harder to stir it left and right specially
if it's going to be fast not a slow bomb .

it's why I wonder if they can use 2 of these bombs to hit at the same
spot for twice and do it with the same penetration angle

 

[Oldman1]

The USA claimed it was prepared against the Soviet Union,We never saw the USA and the Soviet Union in war to judge how much the USA was prepared as it claimed.
As I said before, I don't underestimate the US Air Force, It's a formidable force, but you're ignoring the fact that it doesn't have infinite capabilities. Yes, the US bunker busters are precision guided bombs using GPS, but they do have limits for the range of operation. They can be dropped on the target from a definite distance, surely you can't drop them on Iran if your B2's fly on Iraq for example. I don't know how long that range of operation is, if you tell me how long the range of operation for those GDS guided bunker busters are we can talk about it in a better way.

Hence the reason for B2 bombers which I mentioned in the first place. Remember what the B2s are for. What was its purpose?

And they know that not all aircraft are stealth and they are designing and upgrading bombs and missiles with increased range if using conventional aircraft besides B2s for any possible operation against Iran. For example the JSOW was about 130 km range. The new JSOW-ER will have more than 500 km range.

 

[VCheng]

Hence the reason for B2 bombers which I mentioned in the first place. Remember what the B2s are for. What was its purpose?

And they know that not all aircraft are stealth and they are designing and upgrading bombs and missiles with increased range if using conventional aircraft besides B2s for any possible operation against Iran. For example the JSOW was about 130 km range. The new JSOW-ER will have more than 500 km range.

The good old B-52G can still do its job with cover, in addition to the B-1s and B-2s.

 

[Oldman1]

South Korea F-15K JDAM , SLAM-ER , and GBU-24 - YouTube

South Korea testing the effectiveness of the weapons I mentioned. Accuracy and penetration.

---------- Post added at 04:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 AM ----------

The good old B-52G can still do its job with cover, in addition to the B-1s and B-2s.

Definitely!