UN's nuclear watchdog: Rajasthan reactors are among world's safest

[Abingdonboy]

Abingdonboy, you shouldn't say people are idiots only because they demonstrate for what they believe. That is a democratic right and we should be happy to have it!
Also, it's naive to believe that India is prone to a nuclear melt down, we have Tsunamis, Cyclones, or Earthquakes too, India lies in a conflict region and what if a civil aircraft will be hijeckt and hits one of the reactors? Correct me if I'm wrong please, but are Indian reactors upgraded with air defence systems? Germany thought about it after 9/11, but it would have been a costly upgrade and that's why it wasn't done. But can we rule out such things wouldn't happen and what are the results for India after such an incident?

Besides these that these protesters wants to show their point of view, they also want to inform the public about the risks, because there are so many things that are generally unknown and that are not discussed in a fair manner, because people call them simply stupid, or don't take them serious, BUT THERE ARE ALWAYS 2 SIDES OF THE STORY and we should look at both in an unbiased way and then take an opinion!

@sancho you're right. But all I was trying to say was that the arguments that were being made were incredibly ignorant and those demonstrating were being fed lies by those with vested interests. I have no problem with people demonstrating but when they do it from a position of ignorance I can't stand it especially the way they were demonising the GoI for trying to bring development to its people. And nonse of these demonstrators gave a solution to the energy challenge India is facing and these same people would probably be the ones who grumble about load shedding.



+ I don't think any nation on earth has erected credible ADS around nuke pants. But I am sure there are contingencies in place and there is there provison now for the IAF to take out hijacked airliners if there is a threat of these weapons being used as missiles.

 

[Kloitra]

Lets take a serious look at the facts. The UN wants to pass legislation allowing nuclear trade its a win win for many economies. The opposition to India;s reactors was fueled by the indigineous population not NGO or foeign influences. Rajasthan location is ideal but looking at Tamil Nadu it's the complete opposite. When the UN document describes how the Rajasthan nuclear reactors can withstand Fukushima type of accident, then I queston its data. how can we compare that incident in Japan to this? Look at the location itself. oone is located near seawater and in Rajasthan its located near rivers and dams. Come on......a document with more holes than swiss cheese. Im not saying Rajasthan reactors are not safe but look at a bunch of factors not one. How come they never exmined the possible locations in TN?

The safety claim has less to do with what caused the incidence (earthquake and seawater) but why did it occur (generator failure). Every nuke plant has several safety measures. In Fukushima, the reactors were shut down automatically after the earthquake. But there is a procedure to it. A separate system for cooling the reactors comes online, it is operated by generators. These generators were flooded by the water of tsunami and shut down. The reactors were not cooled and ended in tragedy.

But it is not that this was the last option. The reactors could have been cooled by sea water. But salt water would have damaged the reactors heavily. Not knowing the full scale of damage already occurred, the admin/engineers there opted not to use it, till it was too late.

India has already seen tsunami in 2004 and tested Kundukulam site for it.
Why India's fast breeder programme is cutting edge - Rediff.com News

We had a national committee of best experts. It examined the measures already taken. This exercise was done for the whole Kalpakkam campus and not just the fast breeder. It covered the residential campus, the MAPP reactors and IGCAR. We found that this place was well designed for the tsunami of the kind we had.

If you recall, we were back in operation within two weeks. However, the foundation of the fast breeder which was being built at that time had a deposit of the material that came with the tsunami.

So we studied what degradation the concrete had gone through due to the deposit, whether sodium or chlorine has gone in; what has happened to the long-term durability of the foundation etc.

We did modelling as well as actual testing. The foundation was okay but after discussion with the regulatory body and departmental discussions, we decided to put a barrier layer and a fresh foundation was laid on that and we carried on.

The fast breeder reactor that India is developing is far safer than U-235 based reactors, and the AHWR is a few notches up than it.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...zJcAmJ&sig=AHIEtbTUGhD_QYDWCv1m3usJZQTo9ANGRQ

 

[Fireaxe888]

Why? Only because they are safe today, doesn't mean they will be safe throughout their whole life, because that requires credible and constant upgrades. Not to mention that the same was said about Japanese reactors too and we know what happend.
There is no way to guarantee 100% safety with nuclear reactors, a single incident is enough to effect a large area of the country and that for several decades. Also what most people ignore, nobody in the whole world has any clue what to do with the nuclear waste! It will be there for 100s of years, has to be safely stored and secured as well, with high costs that most people don't include in their cost/benefit calculations.

All these are reasons why I am highly against nuclear power, but I am also not naive to think that an emerging country like India with such a huge population could do it without. However, people must know about the risks and the costs and we have to put more focus on renewable energy, to limit the ammount of nuclear reactos = limit the risks.

When Germany and now Japan, 2 of the most technically developed countries in the world say, we can't control this energy and must develop ways without it, people in other countries should start thinking too!!!

Nuclear certainly has problems, but it's far better than the Indian alternative, coal, which has killed and continues to kill far more than nuclear plants ever have, and emits more radiation to boot (did you know coal has trace amounts of uranium? When you're burning millions of tons it adds up...) Renewables are good, but can't power an economy on their own.

 

[arp2041]

Abingdonboy, you shouldn't say people are idiots only because they demonstrate for what they believe. That is a democratic right and we should be happy to have it!
Also, it's naive to believe that India is prone to a nuclear melt down, we have Tsunamis, Cyclones, or Earthquakes too, India lies in a conflict region and what if a civil aircraft will be hijeckt and hits one of the reactors? Correct me if I'm wrong please, but are Indian reactors upgraded with air defence systems? Germany thought about it after 9/11, but it would have been a costly upgrade and that's why it wasn't done. But can we rule out such things wouldn't happen and what are the results for India after such an incident?

Besides these that these protesters wants to show their point of view, they also want to inform the public about the risks, because there are so many things that are generally unknown and that are not discussed in a fair manner, because people call them simply stupid, or don't take them serious, BUT THERE ARE ALWAYS 2 SIDES OF THE STORY and we should look at both in an unbiased way and then take an opinion!

2 things:

1. I am not against protests as this is of course a fundamental right of any citizen of India, but have u ever imagined how come (just assuming) uneducated villagers are able to understand if a nuclear reactor is safe or not?? I mean nuclear reactors are one of the most complicated structures that have ever been built, not even well educated people can understand there functioning, than how are they able to judge that the kundukulam nuclear reactor is unsafe when top Indian scientists are saying just the opposite??

2. If i am not wrong, than post 9/11, India has changed it's approach to incidence of hijacking where IAF can even shoot the plane if they find the plane as a threat to any installation, now u very well know that certain area around nuclear reactor is a no fly zone, thus IAF will take an immediate action if it sees the hijacked plane is getting even close to that area.

 

[Kayoze]

This should clam the nerve of protesters.

 

[ghameed]

India has worst history of safety record and habits when it comes to work place.
Bhopal incident was one such example, where poisonous gas was leaked due to habitual negligence.

Hmm...let me see....whose words should i believe...a Pakistani Battyman or the IAEA....no thanks ..i'll stick with the IAEA.

 

[sancho]

Nuclear certainly has problems, but it's far better than the Indian alternative, coal, which has killed and continues to kill far more than nuclear plants ever have, and emits more radiation to boot (did you know coal has trace amounts of uranium? When you're burning millions of tons it adds up...) Renewables are good, but can't power an economy on their own.

That's why I said that I am not that naiv to believe India at the current situations can't de it without nuclear power, but still Nuclear power is just a fraction of the energy mix and renewable energy is the only longterm alternative to replace coal, oil and nuclear energy with more safer solutions and India offer many opportunities for them, be it solar, wind, water or other new energyforms. The point is, it is high time that we not only start developments, but focus on them with replacing as much older powerplants as soon as possible.

2. If i am not wrong, than post 9/11, India has changed it's approach to incidence of hijacking where IAF can even shoot the plane if they find the plane as a threat to any installation, now u very well know that certain area around nuclear reactor is a no fly zone, thus IAF will take an immediate action if it sees the hijacked plane is getting even close to that area.

In case a highjacking was noticed, but if it wasn't the nuclear reactors are big targets and therfor only air defence systems are real solutions to counter such a threat in a fast way. Did you see the pics from UK during the Olympics? They had their EFs in high alert and placed several air defence systems around the stadiums, strangely less caution will be taken for nuclear reactors in many cases.

 

[Abingdonboy]

In case a highjacking was noticed, but if it wasn't the nuclear reactors are big targets and therfor only air defence systems are real solutions to counter such a threat in a fast way. Did you see the pics from UK during the Olympics? They had their EFs in high alert and placed several air defence systems around the stadiums, strangely less caution will be taken for nuclear reactors in many cases.

Yes, but these were short-term measures for a 2 week period. You wouldn't epexct the IAF to base QR fighters near all nuke bases in India-that would cause a massive drain on the fighter fleet as a whole and impede training and regular deployment patterns. I'm sure that there are plans in place and measures being taken to ensure the safety of critical assets all over India not just nuke plants. Post 26/11 industrial security seems to have been massivly stepped up.

 

[sancho]

Yes, but these were short-term measures for a 2 week period. You wouldn't epexct the IAF to base QR fightersnear all nuke bases in India-that would cause a massive drain on the fighter fleet as a whole and impede training and regular deployment patterns. I'm sure that there are plans in place and measures being taken to ensure the safety of critical assets all over India not just nuke plants. Post 26/11 industrial security seems to have been massivly stepped up.

Of course not, but air defence missiles which could be placed permanently and can shoot down an aircraft too if necessary.

 

[Kloitra]

Of course not, but air defence missiles which could be placed permanently and can shoot down an aircraft too if necessary.

They are working on every aspect. It is not just prevention of such incidences, but also the measures if an accident does happen.

New nuclear plant safety code to look at extreme events, even missile attacks - Indian Express

The Atomic Energy Regulatory Board’s (AERB’s) new safety code on siting of nuclear plants will beef up norms to identify and tackle extreme events such as airplane crashes and even missile attacks.

Keeping in view the Fukushima disaster in Japan in March last year, the board is revisiting the whole process of identifying and analysing common cause failure (CCF) or any extreme external event such as flooding, airplane crash or missile attack at nuclear plant sites, and simultaneously reviewing design features that can combat these.