Unity.

[Zibago]

@Kaptaan I think we're both saying the same thing. But, I'm saying we do need to unite. Not against each other but, against multi-nationals sucking middle class dry and pay almost no tax, against military establishments in both countries who hope that we go to war and our fat politicians who have been manipulating us since forever.

I am totally for a working relation based on realism no harm in that but realism is a big part of it no unrealistic ambitions

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Not a problem at all internet is a constant india vs pakistan mud slinging fest its actually increasing distances among us and your bjp guys actually help with that
We see more negative reporting of each other than we did in the 90,s and it will only increase as time goes by

Your govt even blamed us for train derailment :-//
Its a two way street

We never tried to Change our basic nature to " escape " Pakistan

You have tried everything to " Escape " India and become Some body else
but you could not

Because you were always insecure about your identity

We were never insecure about our identity

The desire to ‘escape India’ was in the sense of creating a New
national identity that was anti-India.

Pakistan has always wanted to be referred to as a Greater Middle Eastern country
because being South Asian would mean accepting that Pakistan
was part of the Indian civilization

 

[Solomon2]

Please don't play this game with me,I have great sympathy for those Jewish refugees who were kicked out of Europe after holocaust and dumped on the Arabs, but it was these groups who then formed extremist terrorist organisations and started a campaign of violence and intimidation on both the native Arabs and the British troops.

Do you ever consider any facts and context that counter your preconceptions, or do you just toss them aside?

Ideology of Pakistan has nothing to do with Israel, you are speaking to someone who is descended of one of the founders of Pakistan -

Then your beef is with Pakistan's Higher Education Commission and not with me. Are you going to do something about that?

 

[Pakistani E]

@Sher Shah Awan My grandpa was a Gujarati from Karachi and Mum's side is Punjabi from Amritsar/Kapurthala.

That's a cool mix. I think children of mixed marriages get the best of both cultures, and we tend to be more open minded as we can see things from more than one angle. My maternal side is Kashmiri who migrated to Pakistan via Amritsar.

 

[Zibago]

Where are your Jews, Zibago? The ones that used to be in Pakistan? And the Jews of Yemen, Baghdad, Damascus, etc? Did you ever investigate what happened to their properties and wealth? Or whether the land of Israel was something "snatched from Arabs" or whether there is another story that is more supported by facts?

Lets just say that actions of a few in Europe had unfortunate repercussions elsewhere we didnt start it and what happened was unfortunate what happened in that era they can comeback and claim their ancestral places if they want to can Arabs do that?

That's a cool mix. I think children of mixed marriages get the best of both cultures, and we tend to be more open minded as we can see things from more than one angle.

 

[Pakistani E]

Then your beef is with Pakistan's Higher Education Commission and not with me. Are you going to do something about that?

Yes, done more than you. No need to mention it here.

Do you ever consider any facts that counter your preconceptions, or do you just toss them aside?

Considering the fact that I was an Athiest/Agnostic Communist to Liberal to Centrist and religiously fanatic to moderate. I think I have always faced reality when confronted by facts that challenge my preconceived misconceptions. What about you? You've been singing the same tune on this forum and several others for years. Will you ever open your mind to ideas that contradict yours?

 

[Solomon2]

Lets just say that actions of a few in Europe had unfortunate repercussions elsewhere we didnt start it -

You jumped on the bandwagon of popular antisemitism and remain on it for the ride.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Like Jinnah, who sent irregulars to Kashmir to get the newly-divided Indian & Pakistani armies to fight each other? Or Pakistan's generals, who engaged in a slay-fest in 1971 that divided the country? Or the "agencies" who promote "stateless actors" to attack India and Afghanistan, even though that destabilizes the rule of law in Pakistan itself?

You don't know anything about Kashmir conflict . Go read more about partition and Kashmir issues or read this summary

" In 1947, before British India was partitioned, there were around 600 princely states. Lord Mountbatten, the last Viceroy, advised the rulers of these states to accede to either India or Pakistan. Regarding the criteria for deciding which of the two dominions a state should join, Lord Mountbatten said, “Normally geographical situation and communal interests and so forth will be factors to be considered.” These princely states acceded to either of the two dominions on these principles. Although the rulers of Junagarh, hyderabad, and Jodhpur wished to accede to Pakistan, they were rejected by India on the grounds that they were contravening the partition plan because the majority of the populations in these princely states were hindus.

The problem over Kashmir arose as “India laid claim to every hindu majority area, on similar grounds Pakistan laid claim over the Muslim majority state of Kashmir, but such claim was always rejected by India.” Thus a dispute over the state of Jammu and Kashmir occurred and both the parties resorted to different methods and even fought wars to acquire this disputed state. The tribal invasion in 1947, the “accession of Kashmir” to India, and the Indo-Pak war in the same year changed the entire map of Jammu and Kashmir and divided it into two parts—Indian administered Kashmir and Pakistan administered Kashmir.

The “accession” of the state to the Union of India signed by the then ruler Maharaja hari Singh did not mark the end of dispute over Kashmir for two reasons. First, the accession was made subject to the condition of the will of people to be ascertained after the restoration of normalcy in the state. Second, the issue became internationalized, as it was referred to the United Nations by the government of India. Besides, in both the Tashkent and Simla agreements following the wars of 1965 and 1971 respectively, it was agreed that the Kashmir issue constitutes a dispute that needs to be resolved through bilateral negotiations "

There is something common between Israel and India


India occupied Kashmir illegally against the will of Kashmiri people and you zionist occupied and oppressed Palestinians as Isreal was built upon suffering of Palestinians so its funny when aggressors pretend to be victims lol

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

If that was true, then how did Pakistan manage to stay in existence after 1971 when its army was defeated and captured, and the decade plus after that when only India but not Pakistan had nukes?

You can repeat things over and over until you've hypnotized yourself to believe them, but that doesn't mean what you believe has merit.

Where are your Jews, Zibago? The ones that used to be in Pakistan? And the Jews of Yemen, Baghdad, Damascus, etc? Did you ever investigate what happened to their properties and wealth? Or whether the land of Israel was something "snatched from Arabs" or whether there is another story that is more supported by facts?

Does everyone have to live in the fantasy bubble out of "unity"? Can you see why not only outsiders but Pakistanis themselves should hate that when it tramples on truth and justice?

Because the indian army could not enter and hold the Pakistani mainland. Forget the Pakistan army, the Pakistani people can become the most crazy and violent creatures on earth if invaded. The indians knew this fact. The American neo-cons who publicly claimed they were going to do to Pakistan what they had done to Iraq and Afghanistan knew this also. If the Iraqi resistance could cause the Americans such big blows between 2003-2011, despite being a 1000× more powerful than Iraq imagine what us Pakistanis could do to indians or anyone else who tried to invade us for that matter. Especially in light of the fact that Pakistan is wayyyyy more militarily advanced, powerful, 8× bigger, with better weapons and fighting men than Iraq ever could have.

 

[Solomon2]

Considering the fact that I was an Athiest/Agnostic Communist to Liberal to Centrist and religiously fanatic to moderate. I think I have always faced reality when confronted by facts that challenge my preconceived misconceptions. What about you? You've been singing the same tune on this forum and several others for years. Will you ever open your mind to ideas that contradict yours?

What, ideas like "the Holocaust didn't happen"? I open it enough to shoot it down. But why should I have to do such things over and over? And yes, I do read the "Palestinian narrative"; many connections with reality are missing in it.

Damaging lies sustained out of "unity" - bah!

All government is an invention, a kind of shared myth. That's the "unity". But not all governments are equally good or bad, just as not every person will make the same choices of good and evil. Make informed choices, not blind ones, always questioning the basis for your decisions.

Because the indian army could not enter and hold the Pakistani mainland.

Then Pakistan didn't need nukes.

Really, you're suffering from too much military thinking. It's the job of the military to illuminate threats and paint worst-case scenarios; it's the job of politicians, not generals, to evaluate their validity and weigh them in the balance. Otherwise you'll be in a situation where you're always going to be killing or dominating nations who might, just because they are outside of your military control, be a threat someday - and in addition to needlessly killing or angering millions you sacrifice the benefits of trade, friendship, and more sensible applications of capital investment.

 

[LA se Karachi]

@Kaptaan

Well, one thing virtually all Pakistanis are united on is India.

 

[Solomon2]

" In 1947, before British India was partitioned -"

Yes. But Jinnah didn't have to send in the irregulars and extend the conflict further.

Nevertheless, Pakistan was considered the "good guy" in the conflict until the 1965 war, when Pakistan's leaders made it clear to the U.S. that they had accepted U.S. arms meant for the struggle against Communism with the idea of gaining glory for themselves by conquering Kashmir instead.

...you zionist occupied and oppressed Palestinians as Isreal was built upon suffering of Palestinians -

It's a convenient popular narrative for Pakistanis but it's truth turned upside-down. That you're stuck in a hole is evident because you haven't responded to my challenges but simply repeated your mantras.

Yes, done more than you. No need to mention it here.

I'd like the details. Will you start a separate thread on this topic?

 

[jetray]

Well, one thing virtually all Pakistanis are united on is India.

well doesnt it say a lot much about your country whose existence is based on another country!

 

[Hell hound]

Bhai senti ho gaya
@Hell hound @The Sandman @RealNapster

bhai ajj kay feslay kay bad to future or bhi bright lag raha hay apna and truth be told we need people like you on the top no matter how much our public dislike it.

coming back to the topic i really want to drop this punjabi pakton baloch sindhi bullshit but other parties also have to meet me halfway.we will never get rid of this bull crap till we publicly sham and reject the people who plays the ethnic cards to gain votes.

 

[jetray]

f that was true, then how did Pakistan manage to stay in existence after 1971 when its army was defeated and captured, and the decade plus after that when only India but not Pakistan had nukes?

Fact is all the wars were initiated by pakistan and they lost it. Just like arabs who attacked Israel and then started whining about losing territory. They want to destroy hindus and their culture in their own land. Indians for ages have accommodated all those ppl who have come in peace including jews,parsis,..etc but some ppl think that is a weakness. Live & let live should not be take for granted.