Ukraine Switches to German Engines, Discards Russian Military Gear Amid Crimea Row

[Zarvan]

Courtesy of Ukroboronprom

The BTR Armoured Personnel Carrier can execute missions during the day and at night, in different climate conditions.

WARSAW — Ukraine’s leading defense group Ukroboronprom has signed a deal with German producer Deutz AG to acquire engines for the armored personnel carriers (APC) used by the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The new engines will replace Russian gear, which are to be discarded.

With the latest contract, Ukroboronprom is aiming to cut spending on new engines and ensure that the equipment used by Ukraine’s military complies with NATO standards, said Artur Heruvimov, the company’s deputy chief executive, as quoted in a statement.

The engines will be supplied to the Armed Forces' BTR-4 vehicles. The procurement will allow Ukroboronprom to save about US $25 million and use these funds to develop and produce new weapons and equipment, the statement said.

Ukraine has intensified efforts to replace Russian-made military gear with weapons and equipment supplied by NATO member states following Moscow’s annexation of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula.

The BTR-4 is an eight-wheel-drive vehicle enabled with a maximum speed of 68 mph, according to data from Ukroboronprom.

Based in Ukraine’s capital Kyiv, Ukroboronprom is a state-owned group that consists of some 137 companies specializing in manufacturing and export sales of aircraft, missiles, armored vehicles, ships, munitions, radio communication, and other types of arms and military equipment. The group was established in 2010 with the aim to consolidate the country’s fragmented defense industry.

Ukraine Switches To German Engines, Discards Russian Military Gear Amid Crimea Row

@Horus @Dazzler @Sulman Badshah @Tipu7
I thought Ukraine develops its own engines so what happened here ?

 

[That Guy]

Courtesy of Ukroboronprom

The BTR Armoured Personnel Carrier can execute missions during the day and at night, in different climate conditions.

WARSAW — Ukraine’s leading defense group Ukroboronprom has signed a deal with German producer Deutz AG to acquire engines for the armored personnel carriers (APC) used by the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The new engines will replace Russian gear, which are to be discarded.

With the latest contract, Ukroboronprom is aiming to cut spending on new engines and ensure that the equipment used by Ukraine’s military complies with NATO standards, said Artur Heruvimov, the company’s deputy chief executive, as quoted in a statement.

The engines will be supplied to the Armed Forces' BTR-4 vehicles. The procurement will allow Ukroboronprom to save about US $25 million and use these funds to develop and produce new weapons and equipment, the statement said.

Ukraine has intensified efforts to replace Russian-made military gear with weapons and equipment supplied by NATO member states following Moscow’s annexation of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula.

The BTR-4 is an eight-wheel-drive vehicle enabled with a maximum speed of 68 mph, according to data from Ukroboronprom.

Based in Ukraine’s capital Kyiv, Ukroboronprom is a state-owned group that consists of some 137 companies specializing in manufacturing and export sales of aircraft, missiles, armored vehicles, ships, munitions, radio communication, and other types of arms and military equipment. The group was established in 2010 with the aim to consolidate the country’s fragmented defense industry.

Ukraine Switches To German Engines, Discards Russian Military Gear Amid Crimea Row

@Horus @Dazzler @Sulman Badshah @Tipu7
I thought Ukraine develops its own engines so what happened here ?

One engine doesn't fit everything. They may have older tank engines, which they still manufacture, but from what I can tell, they don't have the money to spend on developing newer engines.

Personally, I think Pakistan should take advantage of this. It should outright buy the tech for the tank engines.

 

[Zarvan]

One engine doesn't fit everything. They may have older tank engines, which they still manufacture, but from what I can tell, they don't have the money to spend on developing newer engines.

Personally, I think Pakistan should take advantage of this. It should outright buy the tech for the tank engines.

I agree Pakistan needs to ask Ukraine for TOT of Tank engines and produce them in Pakistan and should also try to resolve issues with new Ukrainian 1500 HP engine.

 

[The Sandman]

Good choice imo

 

[That Guy]

I agree Pakistan needs to ask Ukraine for TOT of Tank engines and produce them in Pakistan and should also try to resolve issues with new Ukrainian 1500 HP engine.

It's probably never going to happen, but one can dream, no?

 

[Zarvan]

It's probably never going to happen, but one can dream, no?

It can Ukraine has already transferred its engine production facility to Turkey so it can come to Pakistan also

 

[That Guy]

It can Ukraine has already transferred its engine production facility to Turkey so it can come to Pakistan also

The problem being that pakistan probably can't afford Ukrainian prices. The Ukrainians are desperate for cash, but they're not stupid. They'll see through Pakistan's ploy, long before Pakistan even approaches them.

 

[Scavenger]

The problem being that pakistan probably can't afford Ukrainian prices. The Ukrainians are desperate for cash, but they're not stupid. They'll see through Pakistan's ploy, long before Pakistan even approaches them.

Nothing ventured nothing gained, right?
Its definitely worth a try, it makes eminent sense and would be very beneficial for Pakistan if achieved.

 

[Luffy 500]

It's probably never going to happen, but one can dream, no?

I don't know if u would take it as an offense , but PAK's problem IMO is that its defence industry is run by military personnels. Your foreign and defence policy is dominated by the military. Military will only look for the quickest and affordable way of gaining necessary hardware for operational efficiency and won't give emphasis on indigenous solutions. Military is not meant to run defence manufacturing facilities but people with financial and technical knowhow (engineers, technicians, production managers etc ) are meant to do the jobs. Civilian policy makers are more likely to emphasize indigenization that military policy makers. India is a good example. Turkey now is also a good example. Look at china , its the CCP who takes decisions NOT PLA. The PAK army won't mind as long as they get tank engines quickly but a civilian production engineer or a scientist of your HIT or HMC may want to make engines with a passion provided funds are there.

 

[That Guy]

I don't know if u would take it as an offense , but PAK's problem IMO is that its defence industry is run by military personnels. Your foreign and defence policy is dominated by the military. Military will only look for the quickest and affordable way of gaining necessary hardware for operational efficiency and won't give emphasis on indigenous solutions. Military is not meant to run defence manufacturing facilities but people with financial and technical knowhow (engineers, technicians, production managers etc ) are meant to do the jobs. Civilian policy makers are more likely to emphasize indigenization that military policy makers. India is a good example. Turkey now is also a good example. Look at china , its the CCP who takes decisions NOT PLA. The PAK army won't mind as long as they get tank engines quickly but a civilian production engineer or a scientist of your HIT or HMC may want to make engines with a passion provided funds are there.

One problem with your statement, lack of funds. Every nation you've mentioned has money, Pakistan is still a lower middle income economy.

 

[Penguin]

The BTR-4 “Bucephalus” (BTR; Бронетранспортер / Bronetransporter, literally Armoured Transporter) is an 8×8 wheeled APC first shown to the public in 2006 by its Ukrainian manufacturer, Kharkiv Morozov Machine Building Design Bureau (KMDB). It has been exported to Indonesia (55), Kazakhstan (100) and Iraq (88). Some 50 are in Ukraininan service.
The basic vehicle's weight with basic protection is 17.5 tons, and with additional protection 25 tons. BTR-4 is powered by a Ukrainian made 3TD two-stroke diesel engine with 500 hp (600hp version available). Alternatively, it can use the German DEUTZ EPBO EURO III four-stroke engine, which comes with power output variants of 498 hp or 598 hp.

KMDB's product range also includes the BTR-3U armoured personnel carrier developed in 2000-2001 by an international consortium. The companies involved include the KMDB of Ukraine, the State Scientific Technical Centre of Artillery & Rifle Arms of Ukraine and the ADCOM MANUFACTURING Company Limited WLL of Abu-Dhabi, UAE. Significant operators include Myanmar (1,000 ordered, 368 BTR-3U delivered as of Jan 2013), Thailand (96 delivered, 120 more on order), UAE (90 delivered). Some 25-30 in Ukrainian serviced.
Vehicle weight is 16.4 tons. The powerpack consists of a Deutz BF6M1015 diesel developing 326 hp coupled to an Allison MD3066 fully-automatic transmission. The power pack and transmission are fitted by the Kharkiv Morozov Machine Building Design Bureau with the technical assistance of the Deutz AG and the Allison Transmission companies.

Another KMDB vehicle is the Dozor-B (Ukrainian: Дозор-Б), a four-wheeled Ukrainian armored car. The vehicle can be fitted with either a 122 hp or 136 hp Iveco 8142.38.11 (EURO 2) engine, coupled to a mechanical IVECO 28026.5 gearbox, or a 191hp Deutz BF 4M 1013 FC (EURO 3) engine, coupled to a ALLISON 1000 LCT hydro-mechanical utomatic planetary gearbox. Each of the two is a four-stroke four-cylinder turbocharged diesel engine with intermediate cooling of turbocharged air. Vehicle weight is 6.3-7.1 tons.

KMDB offers upgrade packages for armored vehicles, which often include changes to powerpacks:
BTR-60: replace the 2 Russian 90hp GAZ-40P or GAZ-49B carburettor 4-stroke V-type 6-cylinder engines with 1 300 hp Ukrainian UTD-20 diesel 4-stroke V-type 6-cylinder
BTR-70: replace 2 Russian 115-120hp ZMZ-4905 carburettor 4-stroke V-type 8-cylinder engines with 1 300 hp Ukrainian UTD-20 diesel 4-stroke V-type 6-cylinder (note: NRMZ offers a refit called BTR70D with 300hp IVECO diesel engine and BTR-70DI/BTR-7 with IVECO Euro II 276hp engines)
BRDM-2: replace Russian 140hp GAZ-41 petrol engine with 145hp Ukrainian SMD-21-08 diesel engine.
BTR-50: replace the 240 hp V-6 Russian-made 4-stroke in line water-cooled engine with a 300 hp Ukrainian-made UTD-20 4-stroke V-type 6-cylinder engine, installing a planetary gear-box with hydraulic volumetric transmission in place of the original Russian mechanical shaft-type GB.

DEUTZ AG - Home
#general.windowtitle_overview_null

Diesel engines
Products - Iveco Defence Vehicles

 

[phantomrush]

The BTR-4 “Bucephalus” (BTR; Бронетранспортер / Bronetransporter, literally Armoured Transporter) is an 8×8 wheeled APC first shown to the public in 2006 by its Ukrainian manufacturer, Kharkiv Morozov Machine Building Design Bureau (KMDB). It has been exported to Indonesia (55), Kazakhstan (100) and Iraq (88). Some 50 are in Ukraininan service.
The basic vehicle's weight with basic protection is 17.5 tons, and with additional protection 25 tons. BTR-4 is powered by a Ukrainian made 3TD two-stroke diesel engine with 500 hp (600hp version available). Alternatively, it can use the German DEUTZ EPBO EURO III four-stroke engine, which comes with power output variants of 498 hp or 598 hp.

KMDB's product range also includes the BTR-3U armoured personnel carrier developed in 2000-2001 by an international consortium. The companies involved include the KMDB of Ukraine, the State Scientific Technical Centre of Artillery & Rifle Arms of Ukraine and the ADCOM MANUFACTURING Company Limited WLL of Abu-Dhabi, UAE. Significant operators include Myanmar (1,000 ordered, 368 BTR-3U delivered as of Jan 2013), Thailand (96 delivered, 120 more on order), UAE (90 delivered). Some 25-30 in Ukrainian serviced.
Vehicle weight is 16.4 tons. The powerpack consists of a Deutz BF6M1015 diesel developing 326 hp coupled to an Allison MD3066 fully-automatic transmission. The power pack and transmission are fitted by the Kharkiv Morozov Machine Building Design Bureau with the technical assistance of the Deutz AG and the Allison Transmission companies.

Another KMDB vehicle is the Dozor-B (Ukrainian: Дозор-Б), a four-wheeled Ukrainian armored car. The vehicle can be fitted with either a 122 hp or 136 hp Iveco 8142.38.11 (EURO 2) engine, coupled to a mechanical IVECO 28026.5 gearbox, or a 191hp Deutz BF 4M 1013 FC (EURO 3) engine, coupled to a ALLISON 1000 LCT hydro-mechanical utomatic planetary gearbox. Each of the two is a four-stroke four-cylinder turbocharged diesel engine with intermediate cooling of turbocharged air. Vehicle weight is 6.3-7.1 tons.

KMDB offers upgrade packages for armored vehicles, which often include changes to powerpacks:
BTR-60: replace the 2 Russian 90hp GAZ-40P or GAZ-49B carburettor 4-stroke V-type 6-cylinder engines with 1 300 hp Ukrainian UTD-20 diesel 4-stroke V-type 6-cylinder
BTR-70: replace 2 Russian 115-120hp ZMZ-4905 carburettor 4-stroke V-type 8-cylinder engines with 1 300 hp Ukrainian UTD-20 diesel 4-stroke V-type 6-cylinder (note: NRMZ offers a refit called BTR70D with 300hp IVECO diesel engine and BTR-70DI/BTR-7 with IVECO Euro II 276hp engines)
BRDM-2: replace Russian 140hp GAZ-41 petrol engine with 145hp Ukrainian SMD-21-08 diesel engine.
BTR-50: replace the 240 hp V-6 Russian-made 4-stroke in line water-cooled engine with a 300 hp Ukrainian-made UTD-20 4-stroke V-type 6-cylinder engine, installing a planetary gear-box with hydraulic volumetric transmission in place of the original Russian mechanical shaft-type GB.

DEUTZ AG - Home
#general.windowtitle_overview_null

Diesel engines
Products - Iveco Defence Vehicles

Quite simply, their dead industry. They no longer produce armored tires. They no longer produce body-APC tanks. They no longer produce radio components for missiles.
Actually, on the BTR-4 was UKRAINIAN 3TD engine. Ukraine as usual just a lie.
Kazakhstan is not on the armed BTR-3/4. They were brought to us in 2008 them. We just did not like the engine. It is terrible. And immediately abandoned the weapons module. It is terribly bad stabilized. From the gun recoil could not hit the target at a distance of 1000 meters already. In addition, we have learned that this is not new guns

 

[Penguin]

Quite simply, their dead industry. They no longer produce armored tires. They no longer produce body-APC tanks. They no longer produce radio components for missiles.

Whatever.

Actually, on the BTR-4 was UKRAINIAN 3TD engine. Ukraine as usual just a lie.

That is what I said, that it had 3TD engine, and that it is offered also with a Deutz engine.

Kazakhstan is not on the armed BTR-3/4. They were brought to us in 2008 them. We just did not like the engine. It is terrible. And immediately abandoned the weapons module. It is terribly bad stabilized. From the gun recoil could not hit the target at a distance of 1000 meters already. In addition, we have learned that this is not new guns

Nobody posted that Kazakhstan used BTR3U. Multiple sources indicate BTR-4 to Kazahstan. Some sources even spreak of joint production. Maybe that explains your problems.
Ukroboronprom, Kazakhstan Engineering sign deal to produce BTR-4 — Ukrinform News
Kazakhstan to Jointly Produce Ukrainian BTR-4 APCs | Defense Update:
Ukraine and Kazakhstan will jointly produce Ukrainian-made BTR-4 armoured personnel carrier 0605121 | May 2012 new army military defence industry UK | Military army defense industry news year 2012

 

[phantomrush]

Nobody posted that Kazakhstan used BTR3U

Whatever.


That is what I said, that it had 3TD engine, and that it is offered also with a Deutz engine.


Nobody posted that Kazakhstan used BTR3U. Multiple sources indicate BTR-4 to Kazahstan. Some sources even spreak of joint production. Maybe that explains your problems.
Ukroboronprom, Kazakhstan Engineering sign deal to produce BTR-4 — Ukrinform News
Kazakhstan to Jointly Produce Ukrainian BTR-4 APCs | Defense Update:
Ukraine and Kazakhstan will jointly produce Ukrainian-made BTR-4 armoured personnel carrier 0605121 | May 2012 new army military defence industry UK | Military army defense industry news year 2012

BTR-3 or BTR-4 are not used in Kazakhstan. The main problem in engines. Our military was willing to sacrifice precision gun module. Since APC 30mm gun is one too many. And much to the accuracy of it - the audacity However, during the test found that the old gun. They just took off with BMP-2.
Module poorly armed, poor quality of the machine. Everywhere there were problems. The car was not sealed and could not swim.
The engine was bad too.
Eventually it was decided to purchase in Russia 400 BTR-82A/ 80A
For the price of Russian it was even cheaper. At the same time, we would not have problems with service vehicles, as there was a Kamaz engine. The quality problems are identified. There were problems with a gun. It was also not very accurate. Giving back to 4000 kgf it's a lot for wheeled vehicles. After changing automation, reduced the rate of fire. Accuracy has improved.