True Crime - Case 4 - Austin Texas Yogurt Shop Murder [UNSOLVED]

[jhungary]

True Crime - Case 4 - Austin Texas Yogurt Shop Murder [UNSOLVED]

Ok, I hope you guys have had your work cut out with the last case, because, this case, is quite a gem on crime solving, in fact, this crime remain unsolved for 26 years and counting. Today, there is still a task force within Austin Police Department dedicated to this case. So, that will let you have a grim taste of how tough this case is.

This case is also extremely violent, and sad, because 4 little girls was raped and killed and then burn alive on the scene. So, here I am introducing you with this real case - Austin Texas Yogurt Shop Murder.

Before we begin, I am going to lay down a few ground rules about this case. Instead of a free for all, this case I will group the discussion into several categories of question so as to discuss the new possibility and aspect of the case, also, I don't have time to get a run around with the other issue which as an investigator myself don't think it's relative to the case.

This case will be presented with ALL FACTS, I will, however, include an "other" sections so we to discuss the possibility of this case being done in a way relating to other crimes and also, add some additional info on the case. Since this is an ongoing investigation, A LOT OF FACTS were withheld, so basically, I will tell you whatever I know about this case, and you will know what I know, so please, do not ask question that it was not covered in the case (because by the end, you will know as much as I know, so no point asking me if you didn't know the info yourself.)

Sound interesting? Let's Begin, but first, let's take a moment and pay tribute to our victim in this case.



Amy Ayers - 13 Years Old

Eliza Thomas - 17 Years Old

Sarah (15 Years Old) and Jennifer Harbison (17 Years Old)

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Date : Dec 6, 1991

Location : I Can't Believe It's Yogurt Shop, located at 2949 W. Anderson Lane, Austin Texas

2D- Map of the location today

3D - Map of the Location Today.

Victims : 4 - Eliza Thomas (17) Jennifer Harbison (17) Sarah Harbison (15) and Amy Ayers (13)

Perpetrator(s) : Unknown (estimate 2 - 4)

Case Detail : On Dec 6 1991, Friends Eliza and Jennifer was working the dead end shift (Closing shift) of the yogurt shop in Austin Texas, the shop is supposed to close at 2300 (11pm) and between 1030 (When one of the parent check on the girls) 2 other girls (Sarah and Amy) joins Eliza and Jennifer and help the 2 close the shop, the 4 were planning on a sleep over on the Harbison Residence, they were last seen alive at that point.

By 2347 (11:47pm) a passing Police Cruiser notice smoke coming out of the Yogurt shop and called for Fire Department, Fire department arrive 6 minutes later, found the shop locked from the Inside, Firefighter break down the door and extinguish the fire. Afterward, notice Amy Ayers feet sticking out of the charred ground with 2 bullet wounds on her, and subsequently, the Fire Fighter discover the gruesome scene of mass murder of the 3 other girl in the back room, with each girl undressed, tied and gagged with their own clothes, shot in the head once and stack on top of each other.

Police declare this a crime scene no long afterward, and investigation went into effect.

​

Crime Scene : Each of the girls was shot once, with the exception of Amy, whom was shot twice, also 3 of the girls was located inside the back room near the back door, the office next to it was locked. The safe inside the office is untouched. However, the money in the till is missing, estimated at $540, the fire was started in the back and progress into the front of the shop which accounted for the relatively undamaged shop front

The till was opened and an unopened can of coca cola was on the counter. The "No-Sales" tab was pressed to open the till at 11:03 according to the point of sales operating system.

Witness Statement : No witness witnessed the crime or seen anything where the crime was being committed, however, several witness come forward to testify on strange occurrence to the shop before the crime being committed

Witness 1 : A former police officer, he was in the shop at about 2200 (10pm) saw the 4 girls is still alive, he saw a man standing in the queue acting suspicious, the man keep asking other people to jump ahead of him, and he was looking and acting nervous, by the time it was the witness turn, the man ask him to go ahead, the witness refused. The man, according to the witness, then ask for a cup of soda, and went into the back area. When the witness ask Eliza (Who was on the till) where the man gone, Eliza reply he gone to the toilet (which is behind the counter and outside of the office) The witness waited for a while, by the time the witness left, he did not see the man came back from the back.

Witness 2/3 : A couple entered the shop near closing (cannot remember the exact time) and notice 2 men sitting in the booth closest to the counter and drinking soda, feeling uneasy, they left without purchasing anything, nor did they witness the 2 girls (Amy and Sarah) enter the store or was already at the store.

Parent of the Deceased had visited the store sometime between 2130 to 2200 (9:30 pm to 10 pm) the parent was checking on the girls and leave without seeing anything suspicious.

Time Line :

between 9:30 - 10:00 pm - Parent check on the girls hang out for a bit and left the shop
10:00 pm - Witness 1 saw the suspicious man
10pm to 11 pm - Witness saw 2 men on the corner booths
10pm to 11 pm - Amy and Sarah enter the Shop
11:03 pm - Till opened with No Sales
11:47 - The shops is first noticed to be on fire
11:54 - Firefighter arrived
About Mid-Night on Dec 7 - Crime Scenes established.

Facts :

All 4 girl was shot in the head with a .22 cal bullet, with the exception of Amy whom was shot with a .22 and a .38 bullet
At least 2 firearms was used (.22 and .38)
All 4 girls was naked, undressed, and tied and gaged with their own clothes.
Amy and Sarah was confirmed to be raped, no trace in Eliza and Jennifer
Amy was found lying on the side away from the piles of bodies with hand stretched forward.
Till was opened at 11:03 with about $540 taken away, safe in the office was not broken into.
Front door was locked from the inside.
Fire started near the back room area and accelerant was used.
DNA extracted from Amy Ayers body. Which does not match any of the suspects in this case.

Suspects :

Of the 432 person of interest was interview, there were 4 suspects have reach trial stage, the 4 were friends to each other, 2 of the 4 was charged and tried and convicted, but have its conviction quashed in appeal.

Suspect 1 : Maurice Pierce (Deceased)

Was 16 at the time, he was considered a suspect for the crime. He was found to be in procession of a .22 firearms and banished it in a nearby mall a few days after the murder, the .22 pistol turns out NOT to be a match of the one that killed the 4 victim. He was arrested and indicted for the charge, grand jury due to other suspect testimony , however, have not been able to indict Pierce due to lack of Evidence

Maurice was killed in a Police Shoot out in 2010 with an unrelated incident.

Suspect 2 : Robert B. Springsteen Jr

17 at the time of this crime, he was arrested in associated with the murder, he subsequently confessed to the crime in 1999 and subject to the trial. He was convicted to the murder and sentence to life in 2001 but an appeal stated his right have been violated granted him a retrial and subsequently he was cleared by DNA evidence.

His confession can be seen here

In his confession, he confessed to shooting Amy and Raping Amy (Amy was the only girl shot by a 38) But he later recanted this confession and he was clear with DNA evidence found on Amy does not match him

Suspect 3 : Michael J. Scott

Michael Scott was 17 at the time, he was confessed to killing one of the girl (not specified) with a 22 cal revolver. He was later charged, convicted to the crime, and sentence to life in Prison. His conviction was overturned because of his right was violated during the trial and he was let go with not enough physically evidence.

His confession can be seen here

In his confession, he confessed to shooting at one of the girl (unnamed) and he claim Maurice have given him a gun to do the deed, and he was reluctant to do so and was threaten by Maurice on "Either she or him"

His confession and his trial was later thrown out of court and his charge was later dropped in 2009 for lack of evidence.

Suspect 4 : Forrest Wellborn

Was 15 at the time of this crime, he was alleged getaway driver of this crime, his role was implicated by both Scott and Springsteen Confession, he was put in front of a grand jury and failed to indict him because of lack of evidence. He was not charged with the crime and he maintain he was not involved in the crime throughout

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Above is the case presented in facts, below is the process and observation as well as the direction of the case, please contribute your through on each point (And to the point only) for the purpose of this discussion. I will also provide my observation and speculation along with the question so to stimulate the answer.

Question 1.) The Motive??

I found it strange for anyone to rob a yogurt shop for money, it may be a crime of opportunities but still, at that time of night, it's uncommon to case out a yogurt shop for a few hundred bucks to rob, that does not make too much sense for me.

So, if the motive is not money, then it must have been either the business or the girls. The business is not likely a target, because it is a franchise, unless there is someone who is not really going along with the "I can't believe it's yogurt" brand, I think it's safe to say the motive is the girls.

Which mean one or all of them are targeted and killed. Who is the question here? We know that Amy and Sarah are most definitely raped, the other two girl was too burn to do any test on it, which mean it could be a person or group of people happened to be at the vicinity and saw the girls, and think at this late at night, they can get away with raping these girl and they go and do it.

Question 2.) Pre-Planned or Chance?

It does not looks like the crime is a crime of opportunities, from the last witness seeing they were alive to the fire is only about 90 minutes, so for 90 minutes, you have to round up the girls, strip them naked, tied them up, raping at least 2 of them, killing all 4, douse the place with accelerant, torch the place and then getaway, there are multiple thing this could have gone wrong and if they had not had experience on this, the perpetrator cannot possibly done it all in less than 90 minutes.

The person who committed this crime must have a plan and know the exact layout of the crime scene before committing the crime, this suggest a planning of sort.

Question 3.) Repeat Offender?

It is likely that the offender has done this before, either that or they were law enforcement, know enough to have the ability to rape and kill 4 girls without a hitch and also in and out in just 90 minutes max.

On the other hand, there are always an off chance these people are newbie killer who just got lucky, but how many of these case it can be?

Question 4.) Modus Operandi

From the crime scene photo (The one with the lobby) you can see the chair is neatly put on top of table bar the one nearest to the counter, suggested that there were people sitting there last (before the crime being committed) the can of coke and the till being open with a no-sale hit at 2303 suggested that the person or people responsible for this crime started this by trying to buy a can of coke near closing and uses the button to open the till, which give us the time of money being taken at around 1103pm. Also this indicate the person know how POS system in the yogurt shop works. Because it would not make sense for any of the employee to open the till with a no-sale button, they would have received the money and key in the sale to open the till or not open the till at all. So, either it was the people who responsible who press this button and open it or ask Eliza (who was the supervisor) to open it that way.

Once the till open, the perpetrator probably asked everyone to move onto the back room behind the counter and asked all 4 girl to undress, then tied them up and rape them, then executed them and stack them up one after another. (Quite straight forward because you cannot rape these people when they are stacked on top of each other). Then I will speculate that Amy somehow survive the bullet to the head, crawl away from the pile (So she probably the last one shot or last one being throw to the pile) and one of the perpetrator found her still alive, and shoot her over the head using a .38, most likely the guy with the 22 is now preparing to clean the crime scene and setting the scene alight.

Then the suspect light the fire and escape thru the back door.

Question 5.) How many perpetrator?

More than 1, any number between 2,3 and 4 will be suitable. The crime can be committed with just 2 men, if they have a look out or helper, it would have been 3, 4 is unlikely, because the more people inside the shop the more possibility there will be evidence left behind.

More than 4 is impossible, because we can almost be certain the killer/killers were sitting on that booth there, and you cannot sit more than 4 people on that booth.

I would say 2 + 1, judging from the scene and the witness testimony, 2 men committed this crime, and maybe 1 man outside act as a look out (The man acting suspicious by the former cop). Then 2 of his accomplice walk into the shop and he escape thru the back and act as a look out. Because if he did come back from the toilet, it would most likely arouse suspicion from the girl.

No more than 2 people are inside the shop when this crime happens.

Question 6.) Are the 4 suspects involved?

Highly unlikely, these 4 suspect is teenagers and this crime is almost perfect crime in term of crime scene management, this incline to suggest persons or people who committed this crime have a sort of control of the crime scene and maturity to analyse and digest the situation.

Teenagers tend to point to a thrill crime. usually won't care about consequences, they may start fire but they would most likely made mistake. Judging from the execution of this crime, it's unlikely a couple of teens could have pull that off.

Also, the DNA excluding all 4 suspect. Someone has raped Amy, but that someone is not any of the 4 suspects.

Question 7.) How are we going to catch the person.

The best bet is the DNA evidence, assuming the authority have already tested it with the CODIS system, it meant the offender(s) had not committed any crime between then and now, which either mean the offender either is already in jail before October 1998 before CODIS system was online nationally.

Another reason is that the offender(s) may have already been dead, hence no DNA was implemented in the CODIS system

Another possible explanation is that the offender(s) have not been committing any crime or had committed other crime but have not yet been caught. Hence the explanation of no CODIS match as of today.

So, the best bet is to either look back at the crime committed between Dec 1991 and Oct 1998 to see if any of the person who are arrested for whatever reason, have not made any DNA Deposit and if the suspect have a violent history or similar background or suspected in similar case, then do a DNA match of him to the case, and you will get the answer.

Or look at similar outstanding incidents between 1991 and now, match the case detail to the case.

Another factor I would want to address is that the person or people who are responsible to the crime is likely to have lived or worked in the area, since I don't believe this is a chance robbery turn rape turn murder. Meaning the people responsible for this must have know this establishment before and see the girl before, most likely a previous customer to the establishment or somehow know the girl work there.

Other Aspect

In Other aspect section, we discuss other issue and some personally thought about the case

1.) Why the 2 suspects conviction being overturned?

It have nothing to do with whether or not they have committed the crime, it have to do with how the trial proceed with the 2 suspects that put on trial. Since the two suspects was put on trial was convicted over the other person statement and under US Constitution, the 6th Amendment given the right for the accused to front the accuser, however, in the Texas States, in this case, the two suspect cannot face each other because both were accused of the same crime, and thus, unless one of the suspect plead guilty, Texas Court does not allow two suspected to be tried on the same case, meaning, barring the other suspect from testifying the other, which, directly violate the constitution right guaranteed by 6th amendment. Thus, the trial is flawed.

However, the case was dropped against the two suspect because they are ruled out by DNA evidence.

2.) Other related cases.

Some people have been speculated the person or people committed this crime has committed similar crime before, most noticeably the Las Cruces bowling alley massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Cruces_bowling_alley_massacre

Most importantly, there are similarity between the two case, both have a 22 cal weapon involved, and both have people rounded up and executed in the back of the head, both are unlikely robbery target, and both time the perpetrator set fire to the location after the crime to conceal the crime.

However, on a personal level, I don't believe it is the same people who committed that crime responsible for the Yogurt Shop Murder.

3.) Criminal Profiling.

After an extensive studies of this case, I have gather a general profile on the suspect(s) of this case

They are aged between mid-20 to late 40
There are more than 1 perpetrator
The perpetrator are local
The perpetrator have prior record of Theft, Rape, Assault, Murder or all of the above.
The perpetrator uses a car to commit this crime.
The perpetrator have scout the location prior
The perpetrator most likely committed some minor offence immediately or not long after this crime
The Perpetrator most likely educated, understand police work and basic forensic

So, this is this week's case, please contribute and I will keep the discussion on for 7 days, and then we will see if we have enough idea to push toward a new direction. Please contribute to this case. Thank You

 

[jhungary]

@Levina @SOUTHie @lastofthepatriots @Zarvan @Arsalan @balixd @jetray @Gothic @Hamartia Antidote @punit @Lucky Breeze @I.R.A @Mrc @Goenitz @PakBlood @F86 Saber

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

@Levina @SOUTHie @lastofthepatriots @Zarvan @Arsalan @balixd @jetray @Gothic @Hamartia Antidote @punit @Lucky Breeze @I.R.A @Mrc @Goenitz @PakBlood @F86 Saber

One or more could still be involved if the ring-leader(s) was older and they were just tag alongs. I think they didn't imagine things would go down like that.

Do any of these suspects have criminal records? Was an accelerant used in the fire?

So Maurice Pierce gets himself shot dead by a police officer after he slashed the officers neck with a knife during a traffic stop for simply running a stop sign. This guy seems like a real likely candidate to be a killer plus he was the guy arrested at the mall with a .22.

It seems two of the others were roommates at the age of 17. So they probably had low paying jobs and were trying to make the rent. Not old enough to know what it takes to rob an adult establishment like a bank (plus maybe intimidated by the unknown) they headed for some place they were comfortable in - an ice cream/yogurt shop with teens working in it.

 

[Goenitz]

I think they were young and knew that only young girls are working there so they tried to rob. As witness 1 claimed that he saw strange nervous 'suspicious' men so it means they were young, not old.
They robbed, however, I think rape was not planned.. to eliminate the evidence they had to burn the corpses.
and I am not sure what does mean 'rights' are violated. If it wasn't a forced confession, then pretty much police already caught the culprits.

 

[I.R.A]

The DNA doesn't match again

The youngest of the two girls (Sarah 15 and Amy 13) were raped, and these two girls were the ones who came to shop afterwards to help the other two girls. They may have been followed by killer(s) into the shop. The robbery doesn't seem to be the motive, its crime of opportunity ........ or may be one of the girls persuaded the attackers to take the money and leave them. Videos give the impression that guys have been made to confess just for the sake of it .......... the scared couple did they Identify the two guys sitting there at booth close to counter?

The shop owner needs to be asked if accelerant was kept at shop.

 

[F86 Saber]

I can say the following things about the case

o This was definitely not the work of teenagers, they were shot execution style in the back of the head.

o I also agree that crime seems to be very well planned, again not the work of teens.

o It seems that only the two younger girls were raped, however there was no point for the subs to undress the two older girls if they did not intend to rape them so i think all four were raped. I also do not see any physical resemblance between the two younger girls which means the unsubs did not have a type.

o There were likely only two unsubs having a classical dominant/submissive relationship which is eminent from the fact that the dominant, holding the bigger gun (.38) made the submissive holding the smaller gun (.22) do his bidding. The dominant only fired his gun once to kill Amy who must have crawled away while the submissive was cleaning up (finger print and other evidence) in the front area.

o Motive here was only rape, unsubs were sexual predators who were probably stalking the two older girls. Since the younger ones came in the way they became collateral damage.

o Las Cruses case was not related to this case, there was no sexual element in it.

o Police should look at other attempted rape/rape incidents prior or after this incident. It is possible that the MO they followed in this case was not their usual MO, it was only done to cover up forensic evidence. Since most attempted rape/rape victims never come forward, it might be fruitful to investigate this angle. I also think that unsubs were not local so the investigators should check for incidents in other states/cities as well.

I will look at this case again after some time.

 

[T-123456]

Looks like it was done by ex-military/professional men,the man in the queue and the two men sitting on the corner booth could be a team.
The time it took to do all of it could only have been done by a professional team with military precision,almost impossible with the lack of time.
The one girl on a different location could mean that there was a leader or someone who didnt want to be seen by the others in the act(maybe he had issues,a complex,psychological problem etc).
A very interesting case.
The time frame doesnt make sense.

 

[Viny]

A. Did Officers tried to figure out the manufacturer of Cash Register?
1. They should try to find where all the is cash registers are installed and who all have used this, build a list of the male cash register users of given brand.
2. Make a list of all the Cash Register service and maintenance crew members and sellers.

This could give a fair groupset of people who are knowledgeable enough to operate the given cash register.

B. What type of door lock does the rear door had? What was its status at crime position.


I think its a job of a petty thief who knows how the cash registers works. He entered from the back door where girls probably finishing up the work. He shot 3 of them, on hearing the sound the 4th one (Amy, who was probably sitting in front and waiting for girls to finish up) came and saw the thief and was trying to run away and to stop her the thief fired from his .22 caliber gun and then .38

Probably he was not expecting girls inside the shop at that point of time, but with finding 4 of them inside and having killed them, his idea from robing the shop changed to cleaning out the crime and hide its trails. To ensure the girls dont create any problem he removed there clothes and gagged them ensuring they are dead or atleast they dont cause any further problem until he clears up the space.

And probably in doing so he could not control his sexual urge and raped Amy and then Sarah, by that time he probably got exhausted after second rape. Thus could only move Eliza to pile up bodies and gave up moving any further bodies. After getting exhausted he probably went to get a coke to drink and meanwhile saw the cash register, so he opened the cash register collected the money and forgot the coke there. Again went to back room and started the fire and escaped the scene. Hoping that all bodies will get burnt in fire and people will not be able to find the cause behind it and all the evidences will be destroyed.

Also need to collect following details

1. Who all knew that there is safe in backoffice.
2. Need to know more about fire accelerant , its availability and other details.
3. Angles at which the bullets piecred in head.
4. Total number of bullets fired other than whats found in body.
5. Figuring out what all is needed to done before closing the shop. To understand what activities girls might be doing.
6. Who all knew girls night out plan.

 

[jhungary]

One or more could still be involved if the ring-leader(s) was older and they were just tag alongs. I think they didn't imagine things would go down like that.

It was investigated by the police investigator, it does not make sense because the group is always a group of 4, and based on the evidence suggested, there cannot be a 5th person on scene. Hence the 5th person theory is unlikely.

Do any of these suspects have criminal records? Was an accelerant used in the fire?

Not sure, Police did not suggested it (Not in the source I follow).

Lighter Fluid was used as accelerant.

So Maurice Pierce gets himself shot dead by a police officer after he slashed the officers neck with a knife during a traffic stop for simply running a stop sign. This guy seems like a real likely candidate to be a killer plus he was the guy arrested at the mall with a .22.

But there are absolutely no evidence suggested that he was there beside the confession made by Springsteen and Scott. And for the police, it's hard to imagine a 16 years old punk can commit this messy crime without leaving any trace...

Don't really know what the Police went thru but one source said the Police ran through thousand of forensic evidence, none of them put Maurice on the spot. (not just committing the murder, but at the scene)

It seems two of the others were roommates at the age of 17. So they probably had low paying jobs and were trying to make the rent. Not old enough to know what it takes to rob an adult establishment like a bank (plus maybe intimidated by the unknown) they headed for some place they were comfortable in - an ice cream/yogurt shop with teens working in it.

Not sure, but it would be, honestly, quite stupid to rob a yogurt store (Even before anyone knows the amount they took) You know before you rob the store you can at most get a couple of hundred bucks, and for that night, earning $540 on that store is quite amazing.

While I cannot say for sure, because for 4 teenagers, robbing an yogurt shop may be a test run on their crime, but unless they are planning to rob something bigger on the scale, robbing a yogurt shop does not make sense as a robbery base killing.

I think they were young and knew that only young girls are working there so they tried to rob. As witness 1 claimed that he saw strange nervous 'suspicious' men so it means they were young, not old.

Witness 1 saw A MAN (1 man) not a group of young man acting suspicious, and the police have run thru a line up of photo of those 4 suspects on him, he did not pick out any.

They robbed, however, I think rape was not planned.. to eliminate the evidence they had to burn the corpses.
and I am not sure what does mean 'rights' are violated. If it wasn't a forced confession, then pretty much police already caught the culprits.

2 things.

1.) The rape is likely planned, the crime (All the deeds) was committed within a 90 minutes window Police said it's likely the people responsible for this crime did not act until the shop closes at 11pm, which make whoever did this, they have 47 minutes to commit all the deeds, which is undress all 4 girls, tie them all up, rob the place, rape 2 or more of them, kill them and then torch the place.

Which mean the time to think between each deed is extremely small, and there are not much reaction time to allow for the perpetrator to go from one state of mind into another (ie go from robbery to rape to murder to arson) Hence it shows some pre-planning that they are there to go rape the girl, make it look like a robber and torch the place.

2.) The confession is false, as Springsteen claim he rape Amy, but DNA extract from Amy does not match Springsteen, in fact, no DNA was found to relate all 4 people in the crime scene.

And the right have been explained in "OTHER" section.

The DNA doesn't match again

Yes, unfortunately....

The youngest of the two girls (Sarah 15 and Amy 13) were raped, and these two girls were the ones who came to shop afterwards to help the other two girls. They may have been followed by killer(s) into the shop. The robbery doesn't seem to be the motive, its crime of opportunity ........ or may be one of the girls persuaded the attackers to take the money and leave them. Videos give the impression that guys have been made to confess just for the sake of it .......... the scared couple did they Identify the two guys sitting there at booth close to counter?

A working theory of a detective is that the crime was targeting Amy and Sarah (The two who was raped), hence, a work of a paedophile(s) and both were not supposed to be in the scene and the two other girl was targeted as a chance encounter, but then this goes directly against the theory and the suspicious activities on the day, as the shop appeared to be cased by someone.

On the other hand, the situation would also matched the perpetrator was targeting the store or Eliza/Jennifer all along if the perp(s) decided to act after the store close, then Amy and Sarah is the chance encounter.)

Hence most cop believe it was either the store or Eliza/Jennifer being targeted, not Amy and Sarah.

No, the couple cannot make positive ID on the people sitting on the booth.

The shop owner needs to be asked if accelerant was kept at shop.

Don't know if the Cop did that, but seems like unlikely, that place does not have a cooker or anything to cook stuff, they should not have lighter fluid on the outside. But we don't know if the Lighter Fluid has came from the perpetrator or from the store. I think the Cop withholding this information for them when they caught the guy(s) that did it.

o It seems that only the two younger girls were raped, however there was no point for the subs to undress the two older girls if they did not intend to rape them so i think all four were raped. I also do not see any physical resemblance between the two younger girls which means the unsubs did not have a type.

I don't think the other 2 girls was raped, there would still be DNA on the girls as they were protected from inside the girls body, because if we know Sarah was rape and she was in that pile of bodies. If the 2 other girls was raped, we should know. I am not saying the other was not raped, but I am saying it is uncertain

o There were likely only two unsubs having a classical dominant/submissive relationship which is eminent from the fact that the dominant, holding the bigger gun (.38) made the submissive holding the smaller gun (.22) do his bidding. The dominant only fired his gun once to kill Amy who must have crawled away while the submissive was cleaning up (finger print and other evidence) in the front area.

I don't see a dominant/submissive relationship between the suspects (2 or 3 or 4) But I do think the use of 22 cal revolver (It was indicated in Scott confession that the murderer uses a .22 revolver) mean the killing is a bit more like a professional hit, because .22 revolver does not leave casing and have less noise when fired.

People would have heard (especially in the city at night) a .38 going off, but may not notice a .22 going off.

I have no idea whether or not there are 2 people committed this crime or whether or not there is a dom/sub relationship

o Motive here was only rape, unsubs were sexual predators who were probably stalking the two older girls. Since the younger ones came in the way they became collateral damage.

As I said, there are 2 working theory on this crime, one is the target is the store/the two older girl, they waited until the shop closes and then do their deeds. Another theory is the target is the 2 younger one, and they were followed and do the deed there.

o Police should look at other attempted rape/rape incidents prior or after this incident. It is possible that the MO they followed in this case was not their usual MO, it was only done to cover up forensic evidence. Since most attempted rape/rape victims never come forward, it might be fruitful to investigate this angle. I also think that unsubs were not local so the investigators should check for incidents in other states/cities as well.

I will look at this case again after some time.

The problem, at least for me is that, usually you wear a mask if you rape other people, so people don't recognize you and you don't need to kill the victim to cover your crime. Killing people are messy, killing 4 girls is probably even more messy, I would not think a newbie killer would have killed 4 girls after raping them, you have to be pushing to that point to do something like that. Once you migrate to killing people, that is another level.

Also worth notice is that whoever did it could wrap out a crime scene clean in such a short time, points to two things. 1.) Either they did not leave much trace to begin with, that mean a quick clean up, or 2.) They did leave traces but they are very good at cleaning up a crime scene. Either way, both would point to a repeat offender.

I would say these people killed before, either know what to do not to mess up the scene or know what to do afterward.

A. Did Officers tried to figure out the manufacturer of Cash Register?
1. They should try to find where all the is cash registers are installed and who all have used this, build a list of the male cash register users of given brand.
2. Make a list of all the Cash Register service and maintenance crew members and sellers.

This could give a fair groupset of people who are knowledgeable enough to operate the given cash register.

I think the cash register is quite common, I don't think you can build a profile by who know how to use it and trace the suspect there.

As for the case, I am not sure if the detective did that. But again, I doubt doing that would have any reward.

B. What type of door lock does the rear door had? What was its status at crime position.

No idea, the police did not release this detail, possibly they need to keep secret to be able to verify the fact once they had caught the person(s) who does that.

All we know, at this point, is that the front door is locked, and the firefighter have to break down the first door.

I think its a job of a petty thief who knows how the cash registers works. He entered from the back door where girls probably finishing up the work. He shot 3 of them, on hearing the sound the 4th one (Amy, who was probably sitting in front and waiting for girls to finish up) came and saw the thief and was trying to run away and to stop her the thief fired from his .22 caliber gun and then .38

Probably he was not expecting girls inside the shop at that point of time, but with finding 4 of them inside and having killed them, his idea from robing the shop changed to cleaning out the crime and hide its trails. To ensure the girls dont create any problem he removed there clothes and gagged them ensuring they are dead or atleast they dont cause any further problem until he clears up the space.

And probably in doing so he could not control his sexual urge and raped Amy and then Sarah, by that time he probably got exhausted after second rape. Thus could only move Eliza to pile up bodies and gave up moving any further bodies. After getting exhausted he probably went to get a coke to drink and meanwhile saw the cash register, so he opened the cash register collected the money and forgot the coke there. Again went to back room and started the fire and escaped the scene. Hoping that all bodies will get burnt in fire and people will not be able to find the cause behind it and all the evidences will be destroyed.

Highly unlikely to have 1 suspected perp only also highly unlike it is a petty thief gone wrong. Given the fact he would have to

1.) Control the situation with 4 girls
2.) Do all the deed himself within the timeframe
3.) The amount of preparation on this crime.

A petty thief would probably just steal their money and go, raping, murder and arson is another level of crime because you won't just kill and rape people in Texas just because you are afraid you will get caught for stealing petty cash, you are talking about an Armed Robbery at worse, which is a Second Degree felony (Punishable to up to but no more than 20 years) to Murder with aggregative factor of rape, which is a Capital Felony (Punishable by Death). The chance this is a simple thief or armed robbery turn into a rape/murder is very slim.

Also, the time frame would suggest pre-meditation, and circumstantial and witness suggest more than 1 perpetrator involved in this crime.

Also need to collect following details

1. Who all knew that there is safe in backoffice.
2. Need to know more about fire accelerant , its availability and other details.
3. Angles at which the bullets piecred in head.
4. Total number of bullets fired other than whats found in body.
5. Figuring out what all is needed to done before closing the shop. To understand what activities girls might be doing.
6. Who all knew girls night out plan.

I cannot tell you what I don't know, as I said, I have told you everything I know, these information is likely to be held by the Police as this is an ongoing case, in case they catches the right people, they will have to verify the crime. And there are already 6 fake confession in this case, not counting the 2 false confession by the police during the first trial.

Looks like it was done by ex-military/professional men,the man in the queue and the two men sitting on the corner booth could be a team.
The time it took to do all of it could only have been done by a professional team with military precision,almost impossible with the lack of time.
The one girl on a different location could mean that there was a leader or someone who didnt want to be seen by the others in the act(maybe he had issues,a complex,psychological problem etc).
A very interesting case.
The time frame doesnt make sense.

What about the time frame does not make sense??

Also, police believe amy was crawling away after being shot, and was finished with a .38 round away from the group of body.

 

[T-123456]

What about the time frame does not make sense??

Stripped,tied,raped,burned,all in 45 minutes?

 

[jhungary]

Stripped,tied,raped,burned,all in 45 minutes?

Well, detective call it up to 90 minutes from the actual timeline because witness saw these people were alive sometime before 2200-2230, and the police definitely call in the fire department at 1147 (Smoke already come out of the shop)

But most police believe whoever did this crime did not do it until closer to the shop closing at 2300, which give the perpetrator closer to 47 minutes to strip, tie, rape, kill, burn all the victim in 47 minutes.

 

[Viny]

1.) Control the situation with 4 girls
2.) Do all the deed himself within the timeframe
3.) The amount of preparation on this crime.

If you dont shot them at first sight and try to play games and then undress them have sex and then kill them and do the clean up is highly unlikely scenario even if there are more than one person involved in crime. Easier way out it shot them on entering the shop that way no time wasted in controlling them and then playing games with them.

I do understand not all the details are given, but chances are that

1. Someone knew about the shop and its working timing and who works there.
2. Someone probably also knew that there exits a safe in back office. Probably intention was to rob that safe, but when the robber/ petty thief/ skilled thief found girls inside, the plan didnt worked out and he had to shoot them out when he moved inside the shop from backdoor.

 

[F86 Saber]

I don't think the other 2 girls was raped, there would still be DNA on the girls as they were protected from inside the girls body, because if we know Sarah was rape and she was in that pile of bodies. If the 2 other girls was raped, we should know. I am not saying the other was not raped, but I am saying it is uncertain



I don't see a dominant/submissive relationship between the suspects (2 or 3 or 4) But I do think the use of 22 cal revolver (It was indicated in Scott confession that the murderer uses a .22 revolver) mean the killing is a bit more like a professional hit, because .22 revolver does not leave casing and have less noise when fired.

People would have heard (especially in the city at night) a .38 going off, but may not notice a .22 going off.

I have no idea whether or not there are 2 people committed this crime or whether or not there is a dom/sub relationship



As I said, there are 2 working theory on this crime, one is the target is the store/the two older girl, they waited until the shop closes and then do their deeds. Another theory is the target is the 2 younger one, and they were followed and do the deed there.



The problem, at least for me is that, usually you wear a mask if you rape other people, so people don't recognize you and you don't need to kill the victim to cover your crime. Killing people are messy, killing 4 girls is probably even more messy, I would not think a newbie killer would have killed 4 girls after raping them, you have to be pushing to that point to do something like that. Once you migrate to killing people, that is another level.

Also worth notice is that whoever did it could wrap out a crime scene clean in such a short time, points to two things. 1.) Either they did not leave much trace to begin with, that mean a quick clean up, or 2.) They did leave traces but they are very good at cleaning up a crime scene. Either way, both would point to a repeat offender.

I would say these people killed before, either know what to do not to mess up the scene or know what to do afterward.

If only two girls were raped and other two were not then it is because the unsubs were somehow interrupted or their planned timeline was disturbed. They might have realized midway through that they didn't have enough time because it took them more time than expected. In the timeline you should also consider that it must have taken a few minutes from the fire starting to the officer noticing the smoke which reduces the timeline by at least 5 minutes more as the unsubs must have left immediately after lighting the accelerant which leaves the total time at 42 minutes. However, since no one was in the shop possibly after 10:30-10:45, it is possible they just locked the door from the inside and put up the "closed" sign before the 11 o clock closing however since there are no witnesses to that, the timeline can be anywhere between 10:30/10:45 to 11:42.

The elderly couple do not report seeing the two younger girls which means that their timeline can be wrong and they could have visited before the girls arrived, or the younger girls could have been cleaning up in the back room. I also think that the nervous guy seen by the Cop was also not one of the unsubs.

By the way, does xx (20) or ix (9) mean anything in the case? Is there any gang in the Austin area having their name anything to do with 20 or 9, did any of these numbers turn up in any other completely unrelated crime?

How was Amy able to survive a bullet to the back of the head and crawl almost 5-6 feet only to be stopped by the 2nd shooter? Was there a blood trail leading from the place where Amy was supposed to be (placed on top of Jennifer) to the place where she was found? In fact, if she was strong enough to try to escape, why did she not try to get out of the back door which was only a couple of feet away? Why did she crawl in the opposite direction where apparently the unsubs would have been at the time.

What did blood spatter analysis show? Were the girls first put on top of each other and then shot or shot first and put of top of each other later?

In all fairness, it is very difficult for us, the people on PDF, to work up accurate theories as we do not have access to full case material like actual pictures of the crime scene, access to witnesses, autopsy reports etc so we can just give crude feedback which might not be useful for you. This kind of work fascinates me a lot.

 

[jhungary]

If you dont shot them at first sight and try to play games and then undress them have sex and then kill them and do the clean up is highly unlikely scenario even if there are more than one person involved in crime. Easier way out it shot them on entering the shop that way no time wasted in controlling them and then playing games with them.

I do understand not all the details are given, but chances are that

1. Someone knew about the shop and its working timing and who works there.
2. Someone probably also knew that there exits a safe in back office. Probably intention was to rob that safe, but when the robber/ petty thief/ skilled thief found girls inside, the plan didnt worked out and he had to shoot them out when he moved inside the shop from backdoor.

First of all, any kind of sex with a corpse will take a lot longer than when they are alive. And that is given the people who does that is sick enough to be able to do it in the first place. Also, killing the girl anywhere other than where they were raped will create a secondary crime scene, which we know these girl was herd into the location where they were killed. Which making it unlikely they were killed on sight.

Another thing is, it's impossible to pick up rape if the person being rape is dead, because (at least modern method) to determine rape is to see if there at are any virginal tearing, which is from the rape victim struggle with the person who had a forceful penetration which would be use to distinct between consensual and non-consensual sex, a person cannot struggle or fight back if she is dead.

The problem is, there are no intent at all to break down the door or pick the lock on the door to the office, it does not make sense to rob a place if you did not search up and down for all the cash. Also, it does not make sense for a simple robber to go from robbing the store to murder and raping the girl. That is a very big hurdle for people to believe this crime is simply a robbery gone wrong.

 

[jhungary]

If only two girls were raped and other two were not then it is because the unsubs were somehow interrupted or their planned timeline was disturbed. They might have realized midway through that they didn't have enough time because it took them more time than expected. In the timeline you should also consider that it must have taken a few minutes from the fire starting to the officer noticing the smoke which reduces the timeline by at least 5 minutes more as the unsubs must have left immediately after lighting the accelerant which leaves the total time at 42 minutes. However, since no one was in the shop possibly after 10:30-10:45, it is possible they just locked the door from the inside and put up the "closed" sign before the 11 o clock closing however since there are no witnesses to that, the timeline can be anywhere between 10:30/10:45 to 11:42.

It's unclear whether or not all 4 girls was raped, physical evidence point to 2 were raped, and cannot find anything on the other 2, it could be destroyed by the fire but consider it tested positive on one of the girl in the pile, so the theory is, if evidence survive the fire in that victim, the other should be okay because they were subjected to the same condition as we assume. But it does not mean they weren't raped, just evidence does not support that way.

About the time line. That is the reason why the cop called 90 minutes because there are no way to know when the crime is being committed. All we know is that the crime should be committed between 10pm to 11:47pm, which is 107 minutes at the maximum, but it's likely between 10:15 to 11:47 (give or take 5 minutes). The thing is, if both Amy and Sarah was coming down to help out the other two closing, which mean they should have been arriving closer to closing time at 11pm. So it would have been significant shorten the timeframe.

The elderly couple do not report seeing the two younger girls which means that their timeline can be wrong and they could have visited before the girls arrived, or the younger girls could have been cleaning up in the back room. I also think that the nervous guy seen by the Cop was also not one of the unsubs.

There are no way to know if the married couple arrived after the younger girl, the as they weren't there long, it could be they are there before the girl arrived, or the girl were already there and were out of sight.

Nervous guy is a POI but since we don't know who he is or if he actually did exist, we cannot say for sure he is involved.

By the way, does xx (20) or ix (9) mean anything in the case? Is there any gang in the Austin area having their name anything to do with 20 or 9, did any of these numbers turn up in any other completely unrelated crime?

Not sure. But there is a gang called the 211 in Austin

How was Amy able to survive a bullet to the back of the head and crawl almost 5-6 feet only to be stopped by the 2nd shooter? Was there a blood trail leading from the place where Amy was supposed to be (placed on top of Jennifer) to the place where she was found? In fact, if she was strong enough to try to escape, why did she not try to get out of the back door which was only a couple of feet away? Why did she crawl in the opposite direction where apparently the unsubs would have been at the time.

This is just a conjecture at the moment, we don't actually know how Amy got to where she was killed, we just know, as a fact, that she is separated from the main pile of bodies, and she is on her side, with hand stretched out and 2 bullets wound instead of one and shot by a 38 and a 22. This is the known fact of the case, and how do we interpret the fact is up to ourselves.

I do not know whether or not there is a blood trail, I do not have any information on it.

What did blood spatter analysis show? Were the girls first put on top of each other and then shot or shot first and put of top of each other later?

I don't have any information on that.

In all fairness, it is very difficult for us, the people on PDF, to work up accurate theories as we do not have access to full case material like actual pictures of the crime scene, access to witnesses, autopsy reports etc so we can just give crude feedback which might not be useful for you. This kind of work fascinates me a lot.

Unless a case is solved and a done deal, Police may not release all the fact of a case, they will have to withhold some fact in order to verify the detail if and when they found a suspect. There are more fact to have been released than I know of, as there are people who write books about the case who may have involvement (Interview the victim family and such) and there are extra information the police can release upon a Freedom of Information Act request.

But as an outsider, this is probably all the fact we know, and yes, it is hard to solve the crime if we do not have the whole fact, but then this is also the part of the detective game that's charming.