Trial of Kayani for not defending Pakistan

[Abu Zolfiqar]

 

[Awesome]

Actually, I'd prefer being a present-day Pakistan than a present-day Libya, Iraq & (possibly) Syria, judging from the conditions of these countries today.

To elaborate "present-day Pakistan" in other words: Thallay laga hua, ghulam, miskeen America ka lapdog Pakistan. Theek hai apko pasand hai toh kya keh sakte hain, majority vote le lo, sab ko pasand hai toh bass jhagra khatam.

 

[53fd]

To elaborate "present-day Pakistan" in other words: Thallay laga hua, ghulam, miskeen America ka lapdog Pakistan. Theek hai apko pasand hai toh kya keh sakte hain, majority vote le lo, sab ko pasand hai toh bass jhagra khatam.

Asim bhai, no one here doubts your patriotism here, but think from your mind than your heart. None of us like the role the US has played since the WOT, people want them to get a dose of their own medicine, but the thing is, you have to think from your mind rather than your heart. Look at the conditions of present day Libya, Iraq & next-on-line Syria. I think Pakistan is much better than these three countries that took the US head on.

The US & Pakistan have caused each other enormous pain in the AfPak region, without a real open confrontation. The fact is, the Army has done an admirable job in FATA getting the tribal Lashkars behind them, in helping root out the militants. The US drone strikes have mainly killed militants that are a threat to Pakistan & the Pakistani people (see Swat), I do not consider these 'bad apples' as my fellow Pakistani brothers. If you follow the updated news on FATA, you will see that the militants (& their networks) have been ripped apart, considering what a threat they had become, & all of this militancy in the FATA is getting wrapped up within the next 6 months-1 year.

 

[iioal malik]

I think it's pretty unfair to blame Kayani for everything,but it does not mean he is not aware things happened around him, He was only following which was planted by Musharraf..

Kayani gets some credit to his name by not destabilizing the democratic system or not stepping in by now!

I totally agree Kayani should be trial,But have we every trial the man in uniform as high as Kaynai?? No..

But it has to start from the beginning,1.Mushraff 2. Ahmad Shuja Pasha.3.Ashfaq Parvez Kayani..These people have been involve in some shameful acts of the dark history of pakistan.

It is so important for the sake of pakistan to trial all three to make sure that country is setting up the perfect example not only for army but for civil government also !!!

 

[lem34]

Guys I love PA and our ISI. I am normally the first to come out to their defense and even today I have a lot of time for them. We have to face facts the chief of army is the most powerful person in Pakistan. The buck stops there. We have suffered humiliation after humiliation from 2007 onwards at the hands of the Americans. This is unacceptable. Kayani must be at the very least explain his strategy to the nation. I am patient I wouldn't say that I want every detail but at the very least what is he thinking or doing?? Why are we allowing routes whilst Americans assist Indians to create bases (consulates) in Afghanistan etc

 

[Pakistanisage]

I move for a trial of General Kayani for:

1. Allowing repeated drone attacks after repeated resolutions from the parliament against them
2. Not shooting down the US raid Choppers on May 2 after the PAF reportedly had a lock on them
3. For failing to reign in on the culprits of the November, 2011 attackers on Salala Checkpost

He personally is responsible for these failures as defending Pakistan comes under standing orders of the military. If he has been ordered not to defend Pakistan by the President, then he has to come out and declare this position.

Please support the motion.

This thread shows your immaturity and total lack of awareness.

It is the President and Prime Minister of Pakistan who have given a secret go ahead to the Americans to conduct Drone attacks. If they want General Kiyani and the Pakistan Air Force to bring those Drones down , they need to state so Publicly. Let them issue orders to shoot down the Drones.

Also explain to me why have the Politicians not taken this issue up in United Nations as these Drone attacks's violate Pakistan's sovereignty ? Because these politicians have given American government a green light ot go ahead and bomb Waziristan. If anybody should be hauled to the court it is the politicians.

 

[VelocuR]

For the past thirty thousand innocent civilians and four thousand soldiers deaths are the responsible of Kiyani and security failures including OBL raid, Mehran Attacks, and Nov 26th. That's what anger us.

 

[Hulk]

I move for a trial of General Kayani for:

1. Allowing repeated drone attacks after repeated resolutions from the parliament against them
2. Not shooting down the US raid Choppers on May 2 after the PAF reportedly had a lock on them3. For failing to reign in on the culprits of the November, 2011 attackers on Salala Checkpost

He personally is responsible for these failures as defending Pakistan comes under standing orders of the military. If he has been ordered not to defend Pakistan by the President, then he has to come out and declare this position.

Please support the motion.

Is number 2 true, any source.
Even if it is true, glad they did not shoot it. You would have invited warth of US by doing so. He used his brain.

I find that PA fanboys have taken a convient stand.

1) If PA wants to do something and civilian governtment does not agree, they will say it is ok to not listen to civilian government.
2) If civilian government wants to pass some order to PA and they do not like it, they can oppose them. Example civilian government controlling ISI.
3) When they have to shoot drones, civilan government has to give them order, how convinient.

Who kehete hain, Chitbhi meri Pat bhi meri anta mere bap ka.

Translation.
Head and Tail both is mine, since my father owns the coin.

 

[BATMAN]

All Indian votes shall be counted against the motion.

 

[Vassnti]

I move for a trial of General Kayani for:

1. Allowing repeated drone attacks after repeated resolutions from the parliament against them
.

I see a lot of " feel good " statements and condemnation how drones are bad and the US must stop made by politicians i dont remember ever seeing legislation passed into law? I would have imagined if such a law was passed there would have been a 100 page celebration on PDF and it would have been fairly hard to miss. (( that said on a bad day i can have problems finding the car keys so any thing is possible))

I dont think Gen. Kayani is perfect but i dont think it fair to condem him for the failings of others.

 

[Zarvan]

If I'm going to fly a remote control UCAV towards DC, you think USAF would call Obama, "Hellooo Obama, may I shoot down this plane that is coming to blow you up?"



More like anecdotal as Pakistan army has taken down Indian aggression time and again.

Sir DC have already given orders to hit back to any intruder but this is not the case with Pakistan specially with America because your past governments have made many secret accords with America

 

[OrionHunter]

For the past thirty thousand innocent civilians and four thousand soldiers deaths are the responsible of Kiyani and security failures including OBL raid, Mehran Attacks, and Nov 26th. That's what anger us.

So how can you blame Gen Kayani for all this? Pakistan has signed on the dotted line for helping the US of A in the War On Terror as a front line ally. Now, when you sign up you've got to adhere to the rules of the game and lend complete cooperation, be it logistics support, drone attacks or whatever you're asked to do however distasteful it may be.

Mush had a choice. For or against the WOT (A war being fought purely to safeguard American national interests and not Pakistan's). But did Mush really have a choice? What would have happened if he had refused and didn't buckle under American pressure? Pakistan would then probably have been equated with Afghanistan and the WOT would have included Pakistan territory too. Remember, Bush'sfamous phrase: Bombed back to the stone age?

Now that's a policy that has continued because no one in Pakistan, the government or Kayani can do anything about it. They have to pander to America's diktats or else the consequences of non cooperation could probably spell ruin for pakistan diplomatically as well as economically.

Kayani is between a rock and a hard place. Those who are baying for his blood don't have an answer as to what line of action could or can be taken now. Those 4000 soldiers including para military personnel killed, were fighting the likes of the TTP who are hell bent on taking over the reins in Pakistan as they themselves have mentioned. So what is Kayani expected to do? Send his forces back to their barracks and let the TTP and its sister militant groups roll into Islamabad (As they had tried to do a couple of years ago)?

And the drone strikes are being allowed in areas where the Army cannot reach or where they are not deployed. So what are we blaming Kayani for? What is the alternative? What course of action should he have adopted?

Any answers from those who are bashing him for what he is doing?

 

[Awesome]

Asim bhai, no one here doubts your patriotism here, but think from your mind than your heart.

Why? We are human beings, and I was made to think with the proverbial heart and the mind at the same time.

What is the central premises of thinking with the mind over the soul? Think of personal gain? Ignore injustice and tragedy of others? Accept worldly pleasures inflicting suffering upon others?

To quote Iqbal:

عقل نے ایک دن یہ دل سے کہا

بھولے بھٹکے کی رہنما ہوں میں
ہوں زمیں پر ، گزر فلک پہ مرا
دیکھ تو کس قدر رسا ہوں میں
کام دنیا میں رہبری ہے مرا
مثل خضر خجستہ پا ہوں میں
ہوں مفسر کتاب ہستی کی
مظہر شان کبریا ہوں میں
بوند اک خون کی ہے تو لیکن
غیرت لعل بے بہا ہوں میں
دل نے سن کر کہا یہ سب سچ ہے
پر مجھے بھی تو دیکھ ، کیا ہوں میں
راز ہستی کو تو سمجھتی ہے
اور آنکھوں سے دیکھتا ہوں میں
ہے تجھے واسطہ مظاہر سے
اور باطن سے آشنا ہوں میں
علم تجھ سے تو معرفت مجھ سے
تو خدا جو ، خدا نما ہوں میں
علم کی انتہا ہے بے تابی
اس مرض کی مگر دوا ہوں میں
شمع تو محفل صداقت کی
حسن کی بزم کا دیا ہوں میں
تو زمان و مکاں سے رشتہ بپا
طائر سدرہ آشنا ہوں میں
کس بلندی پہ ہے مقام مرا
عرش رب جلیل کا ہوں میں!

علامہ محمد اقبال​

English Translation:

Translation
One day Intellect said to the heart
"A guide to the misguided ones I am

Being on the earth I reach up to the sky
Look, how deep in comprehension I am

Guidance on earth is my sole occupation
Like the auspicious Khiîr 1 in character I am

Interpreter of the book of life I am
The Manifestation of God's Glory I am

You are only a drop of blood, but
The invaluable ruby's envy I am"

Hearing this the heart said, "All this is true
But look at me as well, what I am

You understand the secrets of life
But seeing them with my own eyes I am

Concerned with the manifest order you are
And acquainted with the inward I am

Learning is from you, but Divine Knowledge is from me
You only seek Divinity, but showing Divinity I am

Restlessness is the end of Knowledge 2
But the remedy for that malady I am

You are the candle of the assembly of Truth
The lamp of the Divine Beauty's assemblage I am

You are related to time and space
The bird recognizing the Sidrah 3 I am

Look at the grandeur of my station
The throne of the God of Majesty I am

References:

Baal-e-Jibreel

And I take this line out:

Restlessness is the end of Knowledge 2
But the remedy for that malady I am

You can find an end number of practical argument and counter arguments, but ask your heart - do you want foreign military forces to bomb Pakistan? Do you want them to decide if you live or die?

 

[Pak47]

I don't know.. this is tough.. yeah he hasn't done great with America, but he's done well with india.

 

[Awesome]

Sir DC have already given orders to hit back to any intruder but this is not the case with Pakistan specially with America because your past governments have made many secret accords with America

Has the parliament made any accord with America?

The biggest authority in Pakistan is Pakistani nation, we have given authority to Parliament. If shady business has occurred between Pak Government and US, then Parliament should uproot them and do as we tell them to do.

I'm Sorry, but regardless of any general that takes his position. No one will shoot american choopers over our sky.. unless they drop bombs first.. and i think he's done a great job with india..

Yes, in November, 2011 US choppers dropped rose petals on our people.

What the heck has India got to do with it? Miranshah pe bomb khaatay ho Amreekans se, Muridke pe Indians se kha lo.

I see a lot of " feel good " statements and condemnation how drones are bad and the US must stop made by politicians i dont remember ever seeing legislation passed into law? I would have imagined if such a law was passed there would have been a 100 page celebration on PDF and it would have been fairly hard to miss. (( that said on a bad day i can have problems finding the car keys so any thing is possible))

I dont think Gen. Kayani is perfect but i dont think it fair to condem him for the failings of others.

I don't know I don't really feel so good right now, I'm placing an argument that my life is important to me, and I don't want to surrender the right to kill me to a foreign country like the United States. I wan't my government to adhere to my wishes.

Is number 2 true, any source.

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