TOT or TOPT:----

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

To all respectable and I use the term loosely non-respectable members we are continuosly using this term TOT in our discussions without understanding the reason and resource behind this term.

So many people talk about this word---I would like to know what I have missed---is it a different pakistan that you live in and I live in a different pakistan---pakistan that I know of as a child, teenager, young man and now a middle aged person has no resource of accepting transfer of any technology in the high end systems that you people are talking about.

Maybe most of you people live on rumours or just listen to what others are talking about and take it just for granted---or have absolutely no concept of what the limitations we have due to education, fundings, no technology background and research.

Is there some kind of FETISH we have with TOT---or someone has told us what the right word is----well if such is the case then let me share the right term---thanks to PSHAMIM----.

The term to be used here is TOPT---that is ' Transfer of Production Technology '---please be realistic and understand your limitations---once you understand your limitations---it will make you a better person---it will make you strive to do better things---it will make you realistic and your expectations of our defence forces would be realistic as well.

Thankyou.

 

[BATMAN]

Hon. Sir, as i know of Pakistan we lack in advance labs and opportunity.
we are bit behind in certain areas of chemicals and material sciences as compare to advance nations.
We do have quality issues but we are quite good in software and theoratical of every field.
I agree TOT in reality means TOPT but with the available knowledge we have the potential to improve and improvise things and now we are excelling in design engineering as well and in current times is the name of the game.
i don't agree to the term quality Phd image you have but it could be personal experience of individuals.
In my family i have children who did BSc and are working in R&D with govt.
Any how these days electronics are software based hence quite flexible and development of basic products is not a problem.
If you could recall the private firms in Pakistan which have been making drones from long time ago! remember the case of JF-17 development etc. etc.
Where as production technology largely depends on production robots and machines.
I believe if Pakistan have the application and commercial requirement any thing can be designed and built.

 

[MastanKhan]

Batman,

Thankyou for your post. When I went to sadiq public school bahawalpur in the 60's---we had an aero modelling class---where the students would put together planes from a kit to fly---and they would fly---some of them would fly for miles. We had no radio controls at that time---but that was a big thing for high school students---some engr schools in pak didnot have that facility at that time---that didn't get us anywhere.

There is a lots of stuff available on the market to put together the drones you are talking about.

Agreeing or disagreeing with me regarding the phd issue doesnot make any difference---the facts are otherwise---the world of science recognizes pak as far far behind in quality phd's---even a country like china is desperately behind in quality phd's and high end research.

Pak has no research capability on the standards that we are talking over here in the discussions---about the fighter aircraft and its radar system, the submarines augusta etc, or in ship building like F 22.


Your comments , " but with the available knowledge we have the potential to improve and improvise things and now we are excelling in design engineering as well and in current times is the name of the game.
i don't agree to the term quality Phd image you have but it could be personal experience of individuals.
In my family i have children who did BSc and are working in R&D with govt ".

With Bsc in pakistan and they are in R&D---for gods sake---please give me a break---they don't even know the abc of research with a BSc---with a BS deg from the U S, the engrs here have no clue what research is and you talking about Bsc from pak----I am talking about research done by PHD's---not by Bsc engrs----research done in a world class certified lab---.----my good man---we are worlds apart on what we are talking about. Thankyou.

 

[waraich66]

Batman,

Thankyou for your post. When I went to sadiq public school bahawalpur in the 60's---we had an aero modelling class---where the students would put together planes from a kit to fly---and they would fly---some of them would fly for miles. We had no radio controls at that time---but that was a big thing for high school students---some engr schools in pak didnot have that facility at that time---that didn't get us anywhere.

There is a lots of stuff available on the market to put together the drones you are talking about.

Agreeing or disagreeing with me regarding the phd issue doesnot make any difference---the facts are otherwise---the world of science recognizes pak as far far behind in quality phd's---even a country like china is desperately behind in quality phd's and high end research.

Pak has no research capability on the standards that we are talking over here in the discussions---about the fighter aircraft and its radar system, the submarines augusta etc, or in ship building like F 22.


Your comments , " but with the available knowledge we have the potential to improve and improvise things and now we are excelling in design engineering as well and in current times is the name of the game.
i don't agree to the term quality Phd image you have but it could be personal experience of individuals.
In my family i have children who did BSc and are working in R&D with govt ".

With Bsc in pakistan and they are in R&D---for gods sake---please give me a break---they don't even know the abc of research with a BSc---with a BS deg from the U S, the engrs here have no clue what research is and you talking about Bsc from pak----I am talking about research done by PHD's---not by Bsc engrs----research done in a world class certified lab---.----my good man---we are worlds apart on what we are talking about. Thankyou.

I think brain drain is major problem in Pakistan , university professors should conduct research work but we dont have funds for resreach, majority of my class fellows and seniors from UET lahore did their PHD from US Universities on SNT scholarship refused to come back and returned the scholarship amount.

Basically private sector shall provide fund for R&D , in Pakistan we are producing not more then 2 to 3 PHDs but in India figure is 3000 , you can judge our government priorities.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Well contrary to the belief the brain drain has been proven to be wrong---as a matter of fact it has become and asset---look at india.

But the foolish sanction on freezing the dollar by Nawaz Sgarif created many many problems for pakistan---.

Look at pakistan after 9/11---so many pakistanis returning home---but then the lack of security and lack of electricity has created so many problems---.

The problem is not of brain drain. This brain drain makes an ordinary individual become extraordinary---a person from resourceless country goes out---takes advantage of the resources of the developing countries, learns new things that he / she could only dream of---labs that he could only visualize in his hers fantacies---are right in the platter of his hands---.

Be greatful for brain drain---these people bring back the knowledge of the world back home.

 

[ek_indian]

Hi,

Well contrary to the belief the brain drain has been proven to be wrong---as a matter of fact it has become and asset---look at india.

But the foolish sanction on freezing the dollar by Nawaz Sgarif created many many problems for pakistan---.

Look at pakistan after 9/11---so many pakistanis returning home---but then the lack of security and lack of electricity has created so many problems---.

The problem is not of brain drain. This brain drain makes an ordinary individual become extraordinary---a person from resourceless country goes out---takes advantage of the resources of the developing countries, learns new things that he / she could only dream of---labs that he could only visualize in his hers fantacies---are right in the platter of his hands---.

Be greatful for brain drain---these people bring back the knowledge of the world back home.

Sir...I somewhat differ with you on brain drain. I will try to give an example.

Suppose a guy who passed from IIT with good marks, he is lured by big MNCs offering handsome money. This early money is so irresistible that most of the IIT/IIM/AIIMS fell into the trap. These guys were picked into the engg/med/management institutes via exceptionally tough screening and could be well utilised in advance research. However they are not exactly contributing to the knowledge enhancement. If this guy be provided with further studies, he might do wonders. But a brilliant mind did engineering from IIT then MBA from IIM and got into MNC. His engineering degree becomes waste. Bottom line in, very few of IITians are joining AT&T or MIT. Rest all are in big MNC trap.

In case of IAF, lots of people are joining civil aviation because of salary. Now they are not exactly doing some skill improvement. If they join USAF and the come back it might add somthing but this is not happening. Hope I made some point.

Please continue with discussion. This problem is not Pakistan specific so I am learning from you guys.

 

[waraich66]

Hi,

Well contrary to the belief the brain drain has been proven to be wrong---as a matter of fact it has become and asset---look at india.

But the foolish sanction on freezing the dollar by Nawaz Sgarif created many many problems for pakistan---.

Look at pakistan after 9/11---so many pakistanis returning home---but then the lack of security and lack of electricity has created so many problems---.

The problem is not of brain drain. This brain drain makes an ordinary individual become extraordinary---a person from resourceless country goes out---takes advantage of the resources of the developing countries, learns new things that he / she could only dream of---labs that he could only visualize in his hers fantacies---are right in the platter of his hands---.

Be greatful for brain drain---these people bring back the knowledge of the world back home.

Sir,

You know better that the precious asset of any country is their highly educated and skill human resources , we have example of Japan and Malysia both have limited resources but their economical strength is due to highly skilled educated man power .

Basically government dont have any plan to develop technical strength and transfer of technology , you can see what happened with steel mill and HMC .Universities dont have fund for R&D also SNT scholarship for PHD should be increased to minimum 1000 level and to utilize these PHD we should develop our research facilities .

Only Dr Qadir has established KRL and you can see the lot of invovation in nuke and missile technology similarly , we need to develop our Industrial and IT sector on war footings but it need basic infrastructure for foriegn investors which is not available.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Thankyou very much gentlement---india is where it is today in technology is only due to its ex-pats returning home---if the indian ex-pats would have stayed on in the u s / uk etc---I very much doubt the tech growth in india would have happened---these ex-pats with their personal connections and investments have put india in a very strong position. If these people had not believed in india and not sold the idea to the americans that india was the ideal hub for all their IT needs, things would have been different.

As for as japan---japan was a technically very advanced nation since centuries---2nd ww only destroyed their country not their technical know how and skills.

One must remember that japan out lawed guns---ie japanese made guns disappeared from their mainland in somewhere 16 th century---so when the black ships came to japan---japan was a sword and arrow country.

The japanese zero fighter was an extremely superior fighter---before the 2nd ww---japanese tech was pretty much at par with the u s---give or take a few.

Your brain drain are your eyes into the future---. Now indeed no ex-pat who has served in the defence industry on secret projects would be allowed to work overseas---. One of my uncles was one of the pinoneering members of the pak nuc program---him and all his colleagues were considered as brain drain at one time----all trained in the u s, uk, germany, france, canda, netherland etc etc etc.

This question shouldn't even arise at this stage---it has been proven beyond any doubt that ex-pats bring a shining light back to their homes---it is upto us what to do with it---smash it out of petty vengeance or light other torches with it.

 

[waraich66]

Hi,

Thankyou very much gentlement---india is where it is today in technology is only due to its ex-pats returning home---if the indian ex-pats would have stayed on in the u s / uk etc---I very much doubt the tech growth in india would have happened---these ex-pats with their personal connections and investments have put india in a very strong position. If these people had not believed in india and not sold the idea to the americans that india was the ideal hub for all their IT needs, things would have been different.

As for as japan---japan was a technically very advanced nation since centuries---2nd ww only destroyed their country not their technical know how and skills.

One must remember that japan out lawed guns---ie japanese made guns disappeared from their mainland in somewhere 16 th century---so when the black ships came to japan---japan was a sword and arrow country.

The japanese zero fighter was an extremely superior fighter---before the 2nd ww---japanese tech was pretty much at par with the u s---give or take a few.

Your brain drain are your eyes into the future---. Now indeed no ex-pat who has served in the defence industry on secret projects would be allowed to work overseas---. One of my uncles was one of the pinoneering members of the pak nuc program---him and all his colleagues were considered as brain drain at one time----all trained in the u s, uk, germany, france, canda, netherland etc etc etc.

This question shouldn't even arise at this stage---it has been proven beyond any doubt that ex-pats bring a shining light back to their homes---it is upto us what to do with it---smash it out of petty vengeance or light other torches with it.

MK,

Your idea is perfect but due to security reasons highly qualified expats are not intrested to settle in Pakistan.

Few patriotic expats are doing development projects in Rural areas which is appreciable ie North American Doctors Association.