Tiananmen Protest Museum Says It’s Being Forced Out of Hong Kong Location

[windywine]

OH BOY !!! HAHAHAHAHAHA !!!! Really, dude ?

I am serious. Look at what happened in LIBYA, IRAQ, and EGYPT etc. Look at those countries that are forced to adopt democracy and freedom, but their societies and countrymen haven't reach that stage.

 

[windywine]

OH BOY !!! HAHAHAHAHAHA !!!! Really, dude ?

Chinese even could buy up tons of salt during Fukushima accident just because he/she heard a rumor that the salts might be contaminated by radioactive waters.

 

[Desertfalcon]

I am serious. Look at what happened in LIBYA, IRAQ, and EGYPT etc. Look at those countries that are forced to adopt democracy and freedom, but their societies and countrymen haven't reach that stage.

I actually agree with that. I don't know about China, but in so many other countries, American support for theoretical democracy, has been disastrous. Most of the worlds great democracies, with only a few exceptions, took many years to develop, including in America. When I was born in America, we still had legal racial segregation and denied the vote to blacks and other racial minorities, in state after state. We were only an incomplete democracy.

I'm more concerned that the rule of law is obeyed and law and order maintained with transparency, then in imposing immediate democracy where it has not had time to develop.

 

[Jlaw]

Chinese even could buy up tons of salt during Fukushima accident just because he/she heard a rumor that the salts might be contaminated by radioactive waters.

That's HK Chinese. IT was funny as hell. Then they found out it doesn't work and wanted to return the salt. The vendors said no, LOL

Yeah, Chinese are pretty naive in general.

 

[windywine]

I actually agree with that. I don't know about China, but in so many other countries, American support for theoretical democracy, has been disastrous. Most of the worlds great democracies, with only a few exceptions, took many years to develop, including in America. When I was born in America, we still had legal racial segregation and denied the vote to blacks and other racial minorities, in state after state. We were only an incomplete democracy.

I'm more concerned that the rule of law is obeyed and law and order maintained with transparency, then in imposing immediate democracy where it has not had time to develop.

Correct. With technologies advance and internet covers more and more Chinese, the local and domestic information filtration has become more and more difficult for China government, which has forced government to maintain the law and order with more transparency.

Although China set up a wall on internet, it is not difficult for Chinese to smuggle through it. And the wall also doesn't prevent Chinese oversea from surfing Chinese webs and forums. Because of these, Chinese netizen also discussed panama papers intensively though information of panama papers are blocked.

In my opinion, the internet wall is a trade barrier rather than a information filtration. Without that wall, Chinese IT companies like Weibo, Tencent, AliBaBa, and Baidu, etc. wouldn't become like today's.

 

[jamahir]

Come on be fair. I bet more than one South Korean got killed when the North invaded the South on June 25, 1950. They weren't exactly throwing flowers at each other..and months passed before we got it.

yes, it is tragic that many south korean soldiers were killed and i don't want a single war anywhere... wars are foolish.

at this point i don't know dprk's exact reasoning for engaging in war with south korea and i will research on this.

but why was the 1950 south korean government and its military high-command preventing the south korean people from not only uniting with dprk to form a single post-colonial progressive korea and benefiting from dprk's welfare system experience, but also from asking why were they ( the south korean people ) being used as toys in the global imperialist agenda of the usa/western governments??

could south koreans demand between 1945 and 1950 that they want a comfortable and contributing life where they wouldn't need to be wage-slaves, slaves to money?? was feudalism abolished in south korea before 1950??

could south koreans ask all this without being jailed??

look at the language difference[1] between the north and the south :

But more than six decades of almost total separation have seen their common language split almost as radically as their economies and politics.

Some common words have polarized meanings, such as “agassi” which means “young lady” in South Korea, but “slave of feudal society” in the North.

At the same time, the North incorporated Russian loanwords – such as “gommuna” for “community” – while the South borrowed heavily from English to coin terms like “eye-shopping”, meaning browsing.

we can sense the political and life differences just from these two quotes.


feudalism is prevalent in south korea even now and in a corporatized form[2] with fewer but more richer feudals, just like in any capitalist system ( like india and indonesia ) :

Yet contemporary South Korea is no mythical kingdom where evil is always punished and justice prevails. It is more like a feudal aristocracy if we are to go by the obsequiousness this country’s political elite shows towards the powerful chaebol: family-owned and run conglomerates like the Hanjin Group which includes Korean Air and is controlled by Cho Hyun-ah’s family.

Rather than enacting specific policies that would offer greater protection of workers from the tyranny of the haves, this government is adamant that when the rich behave badly, all must be forgiven. When plebs suffer, they should simply take it because it is character-building. Commoners should be grateful, after all, that they can even find jobs in this ‘terrible’ economy.

look at what little and not-rich dprk did for the world[3] despite having to rebuild from its nato-imposed great destruction :

North Korean internationalism is legendary, just as Cuban internationalism is. And this is the least that we can do right now, when the country is facing new tremendous and brutal challenges - to recall how much it gave to the world; how much it had already sacrificed for the sake of humanity!

I spoke to people in Windhoek, who with tears in their eyes recalled North Korea's struggle against (South African) apartheid-supported regimes in both Namibia and Angola. Naturally, South African apartheid used to enjoy the full support of the West. To repay that favor, South African troops joined the fight against North Korea and China during the Korean War.

As mentioned by Mwandawiro Mghanga, North Korea fought against Israel, its pilots flew Egyptian fighter planes in the 1973 Arab-Israeli War. DPRK took part in the liberation struggle in Angola and it fought in Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), Lesotho, and Namibia and in the Seychelles. It provided assistance to the African National Congress and its epic struggle to liberate South Africa from apartheid. In the past, it had aided the then progressive African nations, including Guinea, Ethiopia, Zimbabwe, Mali and Tanzania.

Arthur Tewungwa, Ugandan opposition politician from the Uganda People's Congress Party (UPC) compares the involvement of the DPRK and the West in his country and the African Great Lakes region:

"Uganda benefited from its relationship with North Korea in the 1980s when it helped the government to fight against the Museveni rebels who were supported by the US and UK. Morally, compared to the DPRK, the latter two have no leg to stand on with all the bloodshed they triggered in the Great Lakes Region."

It is the West, not North Korea, which has murdered one billion human beings, throughout history. It is the West that colonized, plundered, raped and enslaved people in all corners of the planet. What moral mandate does it have to propose and impose sanctions against anyone?

We are living in a twisted, truly perverse world, where mass murderers act as judges, and actually get away with it.

North Korea spilled [ it's own ] blood for the liberation of Africa. It showed true solidarity with robbed, tortured people, with those whom Franz Fanon used to call the "Wretched of the Earth". That is why, according to perverse logic (which has roots in the Western religious and cultural fundamentalism), it has to be punished, humiliated, and even possibly wipe off the face of the earth.

Not because it did something objectively 'bad', but because the objectivity lost its meaning. Terms 'good' and 'bad' are now determined by only one criterion: 'good' is all that serves the interests of the Western Empire, 'bad' is what challenges its global dictatorship.

i feel bad when a internally comfortable and externally contributive country like dprk is demonized, even by those college students and young professionals in india ( like much of the indian membership on pdf ) who don't even know that north korea is officially called dprk but these people are ever ready to make cruel faces and laugh "ho ho ho, fat dictator kim" without knowing anything about the korea issue or without bothering to know from the dprk point of view... these are puppets but their actions make me sad.

Socialism ? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!! You are a piece of work, my 'friend'. HAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!![/INDENT]

why not socialism??

Nothing would happen except maybe you'd get suckered by an old Korean War vet.

even if that, the police would probably just stand by "because the veteran is of course a patriot".

And you'd deserve it.

why??

and my point was about you doing it.

...world's only truly democratic country ( libyan jamahiriya ) and another progressive country ( syria ).' HAHAHAHAHA !!! I'm not even going to go there, chief. HAHAHAHAHA !!!!

didn't you read @Madali 's thread about libya from last year??

how can you just laugh and dismiss without engaging in truly intellectual dialogue?? how do you know you are not wrong??

There's protests in front of the White House EVERY DAY. Try protesting in Tienanmen Square.

You have obviously never been to America. You can find those types of demonstrations in front of the White House on a daily basis.

Free speech is alive and well in America.

there are many usa citizens who are progressive thinkers and reject the system their government/establishment imposes on them and some of them take active

but it is also true that there is something called 'controlled opposition' where either the opponents are not allowed to grow to a critical mass or if they do then the establishment inserts distractors and fifth-columnists ( like the cia-front 'awaaz foundation' being a advisor in the 'occupy' movement ).

i will mention your photos once more below.

And as for socialism, you might note that the candidate for president that has Hillary so worried, is Sen. Sanders, who is a long time democratic socialist.

okay, first about the past[4] of bernie sanders :

First, Sperry notes that Sanders joined the Young People’s Socialist League while a student at the University of Chicago. He correctly identifies it as “the youth wing of the Socialist Party USA.” YPSL, as historians of the left know, was highly anti-Communist and its affiliated adult wing was led by the most famous Socialist of the day, Norman Thomas. Thomas’ group had a strong record of fighting the Communists on a regular basis, opposing the Soviet Union, and backing the West in the Cold War. Indeed, Thomas even helped the CIA destroy Communist unions in Europe by arranging the funneling of money through groups affiliated with his party.

Had Bernie Sanders been a Communist, instead of joining YPSL, he would have joined the Labor Youth League, or its successor, the DuBois Clubs. Both were the official youth arm at the time of the Communist Party USA. Indeed, the DuBois Clubs organizing conference was held in Chicago.

from that we have established that he is not "communist" in his past who adhered to the internationalism of the actually communist/socialist countries and movements we know of.

now, the key-phrase you have used and which bernie sanders uses in the vid is "democratic socialism" and this is not true socialism at all... and he doesn't mention any declared socialist/communist countries as the inspiring examples... he mention scandinavia, which despite their welfare systems remains a high-tax capitalist region... what he is saying has already been said by the 'occupy' in 2011 but they want deeper effects.

the vid doesn't describe any concrete plan he has to reform usa... for the usa establishment he is a acceptable and controllable opposition.

look at how apologetic[5] he is being about socialism :

On Tuesday night in Miami, the Bernie Sanders who once boasted of his status as a "radical" met up with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), the formidable major-party presidential candidate.

After the debate's organizers aired a three-decades-old clip of Sanders praising Fidel Castro, the communist Cuban dictator who came to power in the 1950s, some really might have expected trouble. In response, Sanders tried to remain true to his socialist principles in praising Cuba's universal health care and education systems, but he made mention of Cuba's authoritarian, undemocratic government.

more radical than him is kshama sawant[6], the nominally socialist female city council member of seattle city :

Before running for office, Sawant received attention as an organizer in the local Occupy movement.[1][16] She praised Occupy for putting "class," "capitalism," and "socialism" into the political debate.[31] After Occupy Seattle protestors were removed from Westlake Park by order Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn, Sawant helped bring them to the Capitol Hill campus of Seattle Central Community College, where they remained for two months.[9] She joined with other Occupy activists working with local organizations to resist home evictions and foreclosures, and was arrested with several other Occupy activists including Dorli Rainey on July 31, 2012 for blocking King County Sheriff's Deputies from evicting a man from his home.

Sawant has advocated the nationalization of large Washington State corporations such as Boeing, Microsoft, and Amazon.com and expressed a desire to see privately owned housing in "Millonaire's Row" in the Capitol Hill neighborhood turned into publicly owned shared housing saying, "When things are exquisitely beautiful and rare, they shouldn't be privately owned." During an election victory rally for her City Council campaign, Sawant criticized Boeing for saying it would move jobs out of state if it couldn't get wage concessions and tax breaks. She called this "economic terrorism" and said in several speeches that if Boeing moved jobs out of state, the workers should take over Boeing facilities and bring them into public ownership. She has said they could be converted into multiple uses, such as production for mass transit. Sawant maintains that a socialist economy cannot exist in a single country and must be a global system just as capitalism today is a global system.

but again, comes this escape clause from her :

We need a movement to break the undemocratic power of big business and build a society that works for working people, not corporate profits—a democratic socialist society.

both bernie sanders and kshama sawant refuse ( as far as can see ) to say that the usa establishment is anti-democracy, capitalist and war-mongering machine that doesn't care about the homeless in usa but goes to invade and destroy socialist countries where free housing is a basic human right.

so what do we analyze from all this??

Free speech is alive and well in America.

true, but only as long as the speaker doesn't call for overthrow of the militarist/capitalist establishment.

surely it is not the case that those people with the "stop bombing libya !" banner could have invited a jamahiri libyan and he would have give a speech on the benefits of converting usa into a jamahiriya society and the gathered people deciding there and then that they must form a revolutionary committee and that getting known in the media, and then the establishment not even trying to discredit them and the police/intelligence not tracking them?? is this non-action by the state possible??

And if that's too tame, Americans are free to vote for any of the communist/Marxist candidates for president that will be on the ballot, just as they are every year.

would the communist/marxist candidates receive the tv time that bernie sanders the fake socialist got??

---

[1] http://lifestyle.inquirer.net/176219/you-say-lady-i-say-feudal-slave-koreas-language-divide

[2] http://www.koreaexpose.com/voices/welcome-to-a-feudal-aristocracy-of-the-orient/

[3] http://www.pravdareport.com/opinion/columnists/20-03-2016/133867-north_korea-0/

[4] https://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2016/01/18/no-new-york-post-bernie-sanders-is-not-a-communist/

[5] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ame-an-issue-but-do-people-even-care-anymore/

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kshama_Sawant

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

yes, it is tragic that many south korean soldiers were killed and i don't want a single war anywhere... wars are foolish.

at this point i don't know dprk's exact reasoning for engaging in war with south korea and i will research on this.

but why was the 1950 south korean government and its military high-command preventing the south korean people from not only uniting with dprk to form a single post-colonial progressive korea and benefiting from dprk's welfare system experience, but also from asking why were they ( the south korean people ) being used as toys in the global imperialist agenda of the usa/western governments??

could south koreans demand between 1945 and 1950 that they want a comfortable and contributing life where they wouldn't need to be wage-slaves, slaves to money?? was feudalism abolished in south korea before 1950??

Unfortunately for Korea they had been subjugated by the Japanese for over 35 years (that's why the Koreans are nastily hostile towards the Japanese to this very day) . When the Japanese troops surrendered the Russian army moved into the Northern area while we moved into the South. The Russians wanted to replace the vacuum with a Communist government while the US wanted something else. So the Russians put good ole Kim Il-Sung in charge of their section and I'm not sure what happened in the South in terms of a type of government other than Syngman Rhee being put in charge.

Less than 2 years later after US forces left Kim decided to take over the whole peninsula...and the Korean War started and lots of people died. The US was called back in. We still had some troops in Japan. It took us a few months to regroup a main battle force and by that time the country had been overrun and Kim was executing every intellectual he could find.

 

[boomslang]

yes, it is tragic that many south korean soldiers were killed and i don't want a single war anywhere... wars are foolish.

And did China apologize to the Chinese people for killing and 're-educating' millions of then during the 'Cultural Revolution' ?

why not socialism??

Socialism is great until you run out of other people money, which you will.


even if that, the police would probably just stand by "because the veteran is of course a patriot".

So ?

.... how do you know you are not wrong??

I know because I'm really, really smart.


...there are many usa citizens who are progressive thinkers.......

So called 'progressive thinkers' are the same people who want to let guys dressed up like chicks share the bathroom with your little daughter. Real 'progressive'.

boomslang said: ↑
Free speech is alive and well in America.

Where did I say that ? Click the arrow next to my alleged quote. It doesn't and never did say that. Did you just get caught making up a bullshit ?


okay, first about the past of bernie sanders :...

Bernie is a kook. He would have zero chance to implement any of the stupid shit he's proposing.

 

[Nan Yang]

You forgot 'massacre', slick. HAHAHAHAHA !!!!

But there was no massacre.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...hed-inside-Tiananmen-Square-cables-claim.html

In 2009, James Miles, who was the BBC correspondent in Beijing at the time, admitted that he had "conveyed the wrong impression" and that "there was no massacre on Tiananmen Square.

Conveyed the wrong impression = Lying

Western school of journalism

 

[boomslang]

But there was no massacre....

Wikileaks. O.K. chief.

Chinese even could buy up tons of salt during Fukushima accident just because he/she heard a rumor that the salts might be contaminated by radioactive waters.

WTF are you talking about, dude ?

I am serious. Look at what happened in LIBYA, IRAQ, and EGYPT etc. Look at those countries that are forced to adopt democracy and freedom, but their societies and countrymen haven't reach that stage.

I kind of agree with that. Those countries are chocked full of kooks and it takes a kook to keep all those kooks in line. Which leads to my next question... why are there so many kooks over there ?

 

[kankan326]

Whatever. I know China didn't fall into the trap set by USA. That must be a wise and right choice. Don't do what USA tells you to do. You are saved.

 

[rcrmj]

Because no one wants to be seen walking in there by the Chinese agents watching the place. A trip to a 're-education' camp, I'm sure. Can you even go on Baidu and punch up 'Tienanmen Square Massacre' ?

lol, you've been told what to believe```but we watch your idiotic display with popcorn````the so called Tiananmen 'Massacre' was another dirty trick committed (I mentioned on the other thread of this 'divine' quality of yours) by you people ```

 

[boomslang]

lol, you've been told what to believe```but we watch your idiotic display with popcorn````the so called Tiananmen 'Massacre' was another dirty trick committed (I mentioned on the other thread of this 'divine' quality of yours) by you people ```

Spent time in one of those 're-education' camps, didn't you ? It worked.

 

[jamahir]

Where did I say that ? Click the arrow next to my alleged quote. It doesn't and never did say that. Did you just get caught making up a bullshit ?

my mistake, those two were desertfalcon 's quotations and i mixed them up with yours when i was replying to you three.

Bernie is a kook. He would have zero chance to implement any of the stupid shit he's proposing.

but what is it that bernie sanders is proposing?? i don't know of some radical change he wants to bring to usa.

and as i said previously, he is a fake socialist, a acceptable opposition, a fifth columnist.

all this i say being a socialist myself.

And did China apologize to the Chinese people for killing and 're-educating' millions of then during the 'Cultural Revolution' ?

china needs that re-education now... too many chinese have become neo-rich callous eastern middle class who don't understand the harm new-found chinese capitalism has done to china and the world.

how is it acceptable that these neo-rich middle class fools just go about their lives when chinese youngsters are selling their kidneys just to buy the latest cell phone??

isn't a communist country supposed to have free housing and free medical system??

so many other things.

the chinese communist movement must restart a vast re-education system to bring back the chinese to socialist/communist/marxist thought.

Socialism is great until you run out of other people money, which you will.

sorry, what logic is that??

doesn't your neighbor, cuba, have one of the best medical systems in the world despite not having enough money??

So ?

you were legitimizing that veteran's participation in a genocidal/imperialist war and i said the establishment ( police ) would let that veteran do a new crime of hitting someone who rightfully calls the korea war as nato-conducted genocide of the north koreans and destruction of a progressive country.

So called 'progressive thinkers' are the same people who want to let guys dressed up like chicks share the bathroom with your little daughter. Real 'progressive'.

that transgender, jenner something, and all those size-zero gymming-dieting androgynous females and those surgically-enhanced-in-certain-places-but-gym-hard-elsewhere females ( kim kardashian ), they all exist because of usa government promoting consumerism, capitalism and a frivolous culture that is in total disharmony with nature and real aesthetics.

doesn't the usa army have a large number of open gays ( male homosexuals )??

do you think these obscenities would exist in a socialist society?? in dprk??

did you know that in the ussr, gays caught openly indulging in whatever they do in public would have been jailed for seven years??

Unfortunately for Korea they had been subjugated by the Japanese for over 35 years (that's why the Koreans are nastily hostile towards the Japanese to this very day) . When the Japanese troops surrendered the Russian army moved into the Northern area while we moved into the South. The Russians wanted to replace the vacuum with a Communist government while the US wanted something else. So the Russians put good ole Kim Il-Sung in charge of their section and I'm not sure what happened in the South in terms of a type of government other than Syngman Rhee being put in charge.

Less than 2 years later after US forces left Kim decided to take over the whole peninsula...and the Korean War started and lots of people died. The US was called back in. We still had some troops in Japan. It took us a few months to regroup a main battle force and by that time the country had been overrun and Kim was executing every intellectual he could find.

that is a nominal reading of the korea war from a establishment perspective.

allow me some days to see this from the dprk side.

 

[boomslang]

my mistake, those two were desertfalcon 's quotations and i mixed them up with yours when i was replying to you three.

No sweat.


but what is it that bernie sanders is proposing?? i don't know of some radical change he wants to bring to usa.

and as i said previously, he is a fake socialist, a acceptable opposition, a fifth columnist.

all this i say being a socialist myself.

Bernie wants to tax people up to 90%. That won't fly. He wants 'free college'. Nothing is 'free'. Someone has to pay for it. Bernie ( and the rest of the leftocrats) would like an open border and give amnesty to illegal aliens. They want to 'cultivate' these people into being the next wave of leftist voters. Basically, NONE of his 'schemes' would have a chance to pass though the House and Senate. He's talking out his anus.

china needs that re-education now... too many chinese have become neo-rich callous eastern middle class who don't understand the harm new-found chinese capitalism has done to china and the world....

Really ? WOW !!!

doesn't your neighbor, cuba, have one of the best medical systems in the world despite not having enough money??

No. I don't see rich people flocking to Cuba when they get sick. They come here or Europe. Mostly here.

you were legitimizing that veteran's participation in a genocidal/imperialist war and i said the establishment ( police ) would let that veteran do a new crime of hitting someone who rightfully calls the korea war as nato-conducted genocide of the north koreans and destruction of a progressive country.

Didn't North Korea and China invade and try to overthrow South Korea. Guess you didn't get that info in those 're-education' camps, huh ? North Korea is STILL being a dick, 60 some years after the war. And look how good things are working out for the people there. They get to eat tree bark and grass clippings. NICE !! And why can't Russia and China reign in their illegitimate, fetal alcohol syndrome afflicted step child ?

....that transgender, jenner something,....

I'm not into guys cutting their dicks off and calling themselves a chick, but killing or jailing them is so...China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, 'cool' African countries.... And besides, your socialist 'friends' here in the U.S. are the ones advocating letting guys dressed up like chicks share bathrooms and showers with girls.

...

....Don't do what USA tells you to do. You are saved.

But then we'll tell you to do something WE DON'T want you to do, then you'll do the opposite, the thing we REALLY want you to do. Reverse psychology. You've been tricked AGAIN by the Great Satan !!! You'll NEVER learn !!! HAHAHAHAHA !!!!