The United Bitches of America

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I can't speak for the Sahabah (may Allah be pleased with them), but I know for a FACT that Rasulullah (peace be upon him) would almost certainly obtain an insanely high IQ result. He's literally the most successful person in human history, both from a religious and secular perspective.

You are too invested in the Western criterion of intelligence and worth.

I have travelled around the world and seen many intelligent people, gifted in ways no test could identify.

I simply refuse to accept this way of thinking.

For example, your African brothers and sisters whom the IQ scale qualifies as lowly, are more invested in spirituality and personal happiness than most of us Asian Muslims are.

Real intelligence is the recognition of the Divine and one’s place in the world.

This is why I respect people who live in difficult places and have tough lives like in parts of Northern Pakistan, Afghanistan, Berbers of Sahara, and Bedouins of Arabia.

They struggle every day and yet they are content with their lot in life. That is real intelligence.

All while rich billionaires are committing suicides or ruining their lives and careers on social media.

 

[Hamza913]

considering they were some 50-60 feet tall during prophet Adams time

No, Adam (peace be upon him) was gigantic in heaven, but got smaller when he was sent to Earth.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

The Qur'an talks about creatures on Earth before man. What's to say there weren't Neanderthals on earth that mixed with humans from a long, long time considering they were some 50-60 feet tall during prophet Adams time and in turn grew shorter over time.

As religious discussions are banned, I will steer clear of this conversation.

However, I will mention one thing which is basing religion on faulty or ever-changing science is a recipe for disaster.

Once the theory is discredited, your religion falls apart.

 

[Hamza913]

You are too invested in the Western criterion of intelligence and worth.

I never mentioned worth, only intelligence.

I have travelled around the world and seen many intelligent people, gifted in ways no test could identify.

That's called being good at something, that doesn't necessarily indicate intelligence unless it's something that demands it. Also, those people could very well just have high IQs.

For example, your African brothers and sisters whom the IQ scale qualifies as lowly, are more invested in spirituality and personal happiness than most of us Asian Muslims are.

That's got nothing to do with intelligence, and neither does a lot of the other stuff you have mentioned. You are confusing intelligence with worth/happiness.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

No, Adam (peace be upon him) was gigantic in heaven, but got smaller when he was sent to Earth.

You have any source for this, out of curiosity.

 

[Hamza913]

As religious discussions are banned, I will steer clear of this conversation.

However, I will mention one thing which is basing religion on faulty or ever-changing science is a recipe for disaster.

Once the theory is discredited, your religion falls apart.

Neanderthals existed, that's a fact.

 

[Philip the Arab]

No, Adam (peace be upon him) was gigantic in heaven, but got smaller when he was sent to Earth.

Scholars changed that to seem more believable. The sahaba said he was 60 cubits tall on Earth.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

That's got nothing to do with intelligence, and neither does a lot of the other stuff you have mentioned. You are confusing intelligence with worth/happiness.

Intelligence in the West is knowledge of STEM and proficiency at it.

Intelligence in the East is knowledge of spirituality and eternal truth.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Intelligence in the West is knowledge of STEM and proficiency at it.

Intelligence in the East is knowledge of spirituality and eternal truth.

And which one achieved more success in modern terms?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

And which one achieved more success in modern terms?

We did in our time as well. This is not the reason we fell behind.

The West was not gifted in any other way than us, they just were not afraid to use organized violence against primitive peoples to justify expansion.

We were simply not as brutal in our quest for dominance and we were obsessed in our own internal squabbles.

The rest is the Qudrat of Allah swt. Our time is coming soon, but we must prepare ourselves and the coming generation.

 

[Hamza913]

You have any source for this, out of curiosity.

Yes, an Imam from our very own watan (Kashmir):

https://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2013/10/height-adam-60-cubits.html

"Scholars like Imam Abu al-‘Abbas al-Qurtubi[1] and lately Shaykh Anwar Shah al-Kashmiri[2]have said that it means the inmates of Paradise will have the height of their father Adam who was sixty cubits in the heavens."

@Philip the Arab

 

[Philip the Arab]

Yes, an Imam from our very own watan (Kashmir):

https://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2013/10/height-adam-60-cubits.html

"Scholars like Imam Abu al-‘Abbas al-Qurtubi[1] and lately Shaykh Anwar Shah al-Kashmiri[2]have said that it means the inmates of Paradise will have the height of their father Adam who was sixty cubits in the heavens."

@Philip the Arab

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/20612/he-is-amazed-by-the-height-of-adam-peace-be-upon-him


This hadeeth was narrated by Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) who said:

“Allaah created Adam and he was sixty cubits tall. Then He said, ‘Go and greet those angels and listen to how they greet you, for that will be your greeting and the greeting of your progeny.’ He said, ‘Al-salaamu ‘alaykum (Peace be upon you).’ They said, ‘Al-salaamu ‘alaykum wa rahmat-Allaah (Peace be upon you and the mercy of Allaah).’ So they added the words ‘wa rahmat Allaah.’ And everyone who enters Paradise will be in the form of Adam. People kept on growing smaller until now.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3336; Muslim, 7092

According to a version narrated by Muslim: “Everyone who enters Paradise will be in the form of Adam who was sixty cubits tall. People kept growing smaller until now.”

With regard to the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “People kept growing smaller until now,” al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said in Fath al-Baari (6/367): “This means that in every generation people grew shorter than the previous generation, and continued to grow shorter until the time of this ummah, then they stayed like that

 

[Hamza913]

they just were not afraid to use organized violence against primitive peoples to justify expansion.

We did the exact same thing. Have you forgotten about all the conquests Muslims have done?

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/20612/he-is-amazed-by-the-height-of-adam-peace-be-upon-him


This hadeeth was narrated by Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) who said:

“Allaah created Adam and he was sixty cubits tall. Then He said, ‘Go and greet those angels and listen to how they greet you, for that will be your greeting and the greeting of your progeny.’ He said, ‘Al-salaamu ‘alaykum (Peace be upon you).’ They said, ‘Al-salaamu ‘alaykum wa rahmat-Allaah (Peace be upon you and the mercy of Allaah).’ So they added the words ‘wa rahmat Allaah.’ And everyone who enters Paradise will be in the form of Adam. People kept on growing smaller until now.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3336; Muslim, 7092

According to a version narrated by Muslim: “Everyone who enters Paradise will be in the form of Adam who was sixty cubits tall. People kept growing smaller until now.”

With regard to the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “People kept growing smaller until now,” al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said in Fath al-Baari (6/367): “This means that in every generation people grew shorter than the previous generation, and continued to grow shorter until the time of this ummah, then they stayed like that

That's just one opinion, my source provides another that is also supported by Imams, most notably Imam Al Qurtubi.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Dropping this here:

Gayatri Devi, MD, agrees with the new study findings. She is an attending neurologist at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City. “To come up with one unifying score and use that to determine a person’s overall ability is fraught with problems,” she says. “We need to get away from that.”

https://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20121218/iq-test-really-measure-intelligence#1

 

[Philip the Arab]

We did the exact same thing. Have you forgotten about all the conquests Muslims have done?



That's just one opinion, my source provides another that is also supported by Imams, most notably Imam Al Qurtubi.

idk it depends what your madhab is but I tend to go for sites like IslamQA that I know are trusted by Imams, and Sheikhs around the world. I'm sure that Hadith is strong, and I found this quote

"To avoid this theologically inanity relating to Adam's unrealistic height, some Muslim scholars have suggested that God made Adam this height in Paradise, but then shrunk him to a more reasonable size when depositing him on Earth"