The UK's EU referendum: All you need to know

[Blue Marlin]

Look son,you only has bed time stories,I showed you the real data.Now,as you're a liar with no numbers behind his lies why won't you take it like a good lad and spare us your fantasies.

kiddo i dont need to give you numbers the truth is out there.
but if you want stats go on the ons site

 

[flamer84]

kiddo i dont need to give you numbers the truth is out there.
but if you want stats go on the ons site

Anybody can rant stupidities but the fact remains that EE have the highest employement numbers ,above native Brits and non EU migrants,so,again,deal with it but stop lying.

Immigrants From Eastern Europe Pay 12% More In Taxes Than They Receive In Benefits

They made a positive contribution of around £5 billion, and were also better educated than native Brits, with an average of 25% of immigrants having a degree while the UK native average was 24%.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/11/05/immigration-immigrants-taxes-benefits_n_6101462.html

 

[Blue Marlin]

Anybody can rant stupidities but the fact remains that EE have the highest employement numbers ,above native Brits and non EU migrants,so,again,deal with it but stop lying.

duh that coming from somone giving jobs to ee's thats rich the only jobe ee's are good for are brickies plasteres and labour.

if you dont want officail stats from ons then your not worth my time

 

[flamer84]

duh that coming from somone giving jobs to ee's thats rich the only jobe ee's are good for are brickies plasteres and labour.

if you dont want officail stats from ons then your not worth my time

It's fun taking you for a ride.Post your statistics boyo,all I see you foaming at the mouth when I debunked your lies.Stop barking and proove me wrong,I did my part in dismantling your stupidities.

Come on liar,tells us another fantasy about "what you see on the streets"

@Blue Marlin ......here you are liar,from the ONS,the data from December...

• Of all EU2 citizens who came to the UK in YE December 2015, 52,000 (84%) came for work-related reasons, a statistically significant increase of 17,000 from YE December 2014. Of these, 60% (31,000) arrived with a definite job to go to, a statistically significant increase of 17,000 from YE December 2014.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ns/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/may2016



By the way,employement rates for immigrants of Pakistani /Bangladeshi origin are at 50% vs over 80% of Eastern Europeans......

@Vauban ......

Btw @Blue Marlin ,these EE are far more educated than the riff raff you're defending with your lies.Even you,I see that you don't have the home grown education of not lying through your teeth so I take it upon me to educate you given your parents obvious failures.

@Vauban ...leaving aside the delirium tremens of that poster,here are the facts

European immigrants contribute £5bn to UK economy but non-EU migrants 'cost £118bn'
Immigrants from Poland and the other nine countries that joined the EU in 2004 have contributed almost £5 billion more to the UK’s economy than they used in benefits and public services.
Analysis by the University College London Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration found that while the fiscal contribution by European workers was overwhelmingly positive – amounting to £20 billion in a decade – the same was not true for non-EEA arrivals.
Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants from outside the EU made a negative contribution of £118 billion over 17 years, the report found, using more publicly-funded services, including the NHS, education and benefits, than they paid in tax.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...y-but-non-eu-migrants-cost-118bn-9840170.html

Clear as night and day,EE workers are a plus for the UK economy,non EU migrants are a drain.The UK can do whatever it wants,kick them out and keep their welfare queen migrants from outside the EU but I don't have to accept BS excuses when these people are a net plus for the economy.

 

[Vergennes]

@flamer84

I support the immigration from E.E,contrary to the trash coming from middle east and africa,they are very educated,qualified and skilled.... they are filling up the jobs were we lack skilled workers and are contributing to the economy. (+ They are even doing the jobs that we don't want to do !)
They aren't a burden to the social security unlike others...
They integrate very well and are doing efforts to do so. And I say this as my neighbors are from Poland.
-
You can't label as bad an entire community just because you had a bad experience with some drunk weirdos.

 

[flamer84]

@flamer84

I support the immigration from E.E,contrary to the trash coming from middle east and africa,they are very educated,qualified and skilled.... they are filling up the jobs were we lack skilled workers and are contributing to the economy. (+ They are even doing the jobs that we don't want to do !)
They aren't a burden to the social security unlike others...
They integrate very well and are doing efforts to do so. And I say this as my neighbors are from Poland.
-
You can't label as bad an entire community just because you had a bad experience with some drunk weirdos.

It's not like Eastern Europeans are God's people.You get all sorts of bad apples,especially many criminals setting up shop in Western Europe but to say "most of them sit there doing nothing but claiming welfare" when the stats proove the opposite is just ridiculous.Pound per pound they're far better migrants than non EU ones as showed in their contribution which I've quoted above.Eastern states might be poorer but commies did one thing right...the vigourous educational system,that's why you see many EE highschool,college kids doing well in applied sciences olympiads every year.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Anybody can rant stupidities but the fact remains that EE have the highest employement numbers ,above native Brits and non EU migrants,so,again,deal with it but stop lying.

Depend on what source you are looking at

Eastern Europeans in the UK 'earn less and claim more' than those born in Britain - but migrants from Western Europe, Australia and North America do better

• Report: Eastern Europeans claim more benefits than people born in Britain
• Study also found they earn lower wages than the UK-born population
• Pakistan, Bangladeshi & African migrants also more likely to claim benefits
• Figures come from the Office for National Statistics’ Labour Force Survey

Source :http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3168884/Eastern-Europeans-UK-earn-claim-born-Britain.html

Three in four migrants from Eastern Europe filling low-skill jobs: Third are in roles such as fruit picking as evidence mounts cheap labour is forcing down British workers' pay

• Report reveals almost 3/4 of Easter Europeans in UK filling low-skilled jobs
• More than a third - 318,000 - in basic jobs such as cleaning and fruit picking
• Growing evidence cheap foreign labour has reduced British workers' pay
• Migration Watch analysis based on the Office for National Statistics survey

They are far more likely to be in low-skilled jobs than people born in Britain or workers who have arrived from older EU member states such as France and Germany, says the think-tank Migration Watch UK.

There is growing evidence that the influx of cheap foreign labour has forced down the pay of some British workers.

Last week Bank of England governor Mark Carney said the increase in the size of the workforce, partly driven by migration, had ‘contained wage growth in the face of robust employment growth’.

This shows there are 1.27million EU workers who have arrived in Britain since 1997 – the year the Blair government was elected. Of the 872,000 from Eastern Europe, 630,000 are in roles defined as low-skilled by the Government’s Migration Advisory Committee.

Just over half were in the second-lowest skills category, which includes administrative and secretarial, sales and customer services, and process, plant and machine operatives. The remainder were in the lowest ‘elementary’ occupations.

The workers are from Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia, which joined the EU in 2004. Labour predicted only 13,000 a year would arrive.

Also included are people from Romania and Bulgaria, given open access to the UK jobs market in January 2014.

Migration Watch chairman Lord Green of Deddington said: ‘This analysis clearly demonstrates that some means must be found to curb low-skilled immigration from the EU if immigration is to be brought under control.

'East European workers have a very good reputation for their work ethic but the fact that they are so overwhelmingly in low-skilled work raises real questions about their value to the UK economy. They add considerably to the pressure on public services.’

Migration Watch said the figures make it ‘extremely unlikely’ that migrants in the lowest-skilled jobs are making a positive net fiscal contribution. Workers earning less than £10,600 do not pay income tax, although they do make other contributions, such as paying VAT.

And a study of pay in London found the lowest-paid 20 per cent have seen wages fall by 15 per cent on average.

Earlier this month, official figures showed that the number of Romanians and Bulgarians working in the UK had increased by a third in a single year to 173,000. The total of non-UK nationals from the EU working in Britain increased by 283,000 – 17 per cent – to a record 1.91million.

A Home Office spokesman said: ‘Nine out of every ten people in work are UK nationals – we want to make sure British citizens benefit first from the country’s growing economy, but that we also attract the skilled migrants that are needed.

‘The new government will negotiate with the EU to bring in further reforms, so that people will have to be earning here for a number of years before they can claim benefits, including the tax credits that top up low wages.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cheap-labour-forcing-British-workers-pay.html

 

[flamer84]

Three in four migrants from Eastern Europe filling low-skill jobs: Third are in roles such as fruit picking as evidence mounts cheap labour is forcing down British workers' pay

• Report reveals almost 3/4 of Easter Europeans in UK filling low-skilled jobs
• More than a third - 318,000 - in basic jobs such as cleaning and fruit picking
• Growing evidence cheap foreign labour has reduced British workers' pay
• Migration Watch analysis based on the Office for National Statistics survey

They are far more likely to be in low-skilled jobs than people born in Britain or workers who have arrived from older EU member states such as France and Germany, says the think-tank Migration Watch UK.

There is growing evidence that the influx of cheap foreign labour has forced down the pay of some British workers.

Last week Bank of England governor Mark Carney said the increase in the size of the workforce, partly driven by migration, had ‘contained wage growth in the face of robust employment growth’.

This shows there are 1.27million EU workers who have arrived in Britain since 1997 – the year the Blair government was elected. Of the 872,000 from Eastern Europe, 630,000 are in roles defined as low-skilled by the Government’s Migration Advisory Committee.

Just over half were in the second-lowest skills category, which includes administrative and secretarial, sales and customer services, and process, plant and machine operatives. The remainder were in the lowest ‘elementary’ occupations.

The workers are from Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia, which joined the EU in 2004. Labour predicted only 13,000 a year would arrive.

Also included are people from Romania and Bulgaria, given open access to the UK jobs market in January 2014.

Migration Watch chairman Lord Green of Deddington said: ‘This analysis clearly demonstrates that some means must be found to curb low-skilled immigration from the EU if immigration is to be brought under control.

'East European workers have a very good reputation for their work ethic but the fact that they are so overwhelmingly in low-skilled work raises real questions about their value to the UK economy. They add considerably to the pressure on public services.’

Migration Watch said the figures make it ‘extremely unlikely’ that migrants in the lowest-skilled jobs are making a positive net fiscal contribution. Workers earning less than £10,600 do not pay income tax, although they do make other contributions, such as paying VAT.

And a study of pay in London found the lowest-paid 20 per cent have seen wages fall by 15 per cent on average.

Earlier this month, official figures showed that the number of Romanians and Bulgarians working in the UK had increased by a third in a single year to 173,000. The total of non-UK nationals from the EU working in Britain increased by 283,000 – 17 per cent – to a record 1.91million.

A Home Office spokesman said: ‘Nine out of every ten people in work are UK nationals – we want to make sure British citizens benefit first from the country’s growing economy, but that we also attract the skilled migrants that are needed.

‘The new government will negotiate with the EU to bring in further reforms, so that people will have to be earning here for a number of years before they can claim benefits, including the tax credits that top up low wages.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cheap-labour-forcing-British-workers-pay.html

Even so,still better than not working and staying on dole like half on non EU migrants.They actually give back while the others take from the state.

If you think that wages will go up if they leave you're in for a rude awakening and so is the British public.Those businesses will become uncompetitive and will loose to ones from other EU countries.

Still,look at their numbers,it's impossible for all of them to occupy high paid jobs.....

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Even so,still better than not working and staying on dole like half on non EU migrants.They actually give back while the others take from the state.

If you think that wages will go up if they leave you're in for a rude awakening and so is the British public.Those businesses will become uncompetitive and will loose to ones from other EU countries.

Still,look at their numbers,it's impossible for all of them to occupy high paid jobs.....

Cheap unskilled labour from east European countries who barely speak English definitely affected the wages. Its simple economics. If you have someone working for flat rate of 5.50 pound per hour on weekend and bank holidays then employers dont need to hire those who are asking for more and demands more rights as a employee..

British also need to reform their welfare systems to give more facilities to those who prefer to work. If those who sit at home and do nothing get benefits from state as much as those who are working on minimum wages then It will discourage them to go and find work

 

[Vergennes]

Cheap unskilled labour from east European countries who barely speak English definitely affected the wages. Its simple economics. If you have someone working for flat rate of 5.50 pound per hour on weekend and bank holidays then employers dont need to hire those who are asking for more and demands more rights as a employee..

British also need to reform their welfare systems to give more facilities to those who prefer to work. If those who sit at home and do nothing get benefits from state as much as those who are working on minimum wages then It will discourage them to go and find work

 

[flamer84]

Cheap unskilled labour from east European countries who barely speak English definitely affected the wages. Its simple economics. If you have someone working for flat rate of 5.50 pound per hour on weekend and bank holidays then employers dont need to hire those who are asking for more and demands more rights as a employee..

British also need to reform their welfare systems to give more facilities to those who prefer to work. If those who sit at home and do nothing get benefits from state as much as those who are working on minimum wages then It will discourage them to go and find work

Minimum wage is 7.20,weekends,nights and official hollydays are paid extra.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EF_English_Proficiency_Index#2015_Rankings

As for the English speaking part,they speak it better than other migrants,overall

Poland...rank 9...very high proficiency

Romania....rank 16...high proficency

Pakistan...rank 45...low proficiency

Also,many EE pull more than the 35h weekly on the job.My own brother,working as a waiter earning some 11.5£/hour (including the service charge and night shifts) pulls about 45-50h/week and they tax you more for extra hours.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Minimum wage is 7.20 weekends,nights and official hollydays are paid extra.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EF_English_Proficiency_Index#2015_Rankings

As for the English speaking part,they speak it better than other migrants,overall

Poland...rank 9...very high proficiency

Romania....rank 16...high proficency

Pakistan...rank 45...low proficiency

I was talking about minimum wages in UK when polish and Romanian joined the EU ...Minimum £7.20 pay hourly rate was started in this year.Pay rise is not as good as rate of inflation. Before eastern European joined EU they used to give you double rate for working on weekend and for hours over 37 hours and it all got change now its almost flat rate now with most working on zero hours contracts .I was talking about English proficiency of those majority of eastern Europeans who are in low skilled jobs i.e in construction industry, warehouses, farms, cleaning etc and they hardly can speak or understand English unlike others nationalities who come to uk after passing some English language test


http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/11/labour-ciriticse-tesco-next-cheap-labour

"It is unfair that unscrupulous employers whose only interest seems to be finding labour as cheaply as possible will recruit workers in large numbers in low-wage countries in the EU, bring them to the UK, charge the costs of their travel and their substandard accommodation against their wages and still not even meet the national minimum wage. "That is unfair. It exploits migrant workers and it makes it impossible for settled workers with mortgages and a family to support at British prices to compete."

"Take the case of Tesco, who recently decided to move their distribution centre in Kent," he will say. "The new centre is larger and employs more people, but the staff at original site, most of them British, were told that they could only move to the new centre if they took a cut in pay. The result? A large percentage of the staff at the new centre are from [the] eastern bloc."

The claim that Tesco has given jobs to cheaper eastern bloc workers at the expense of British staff has been backed by Robert Halfon, the Tory MP for Harlow, where the original centre was based.

"Tesco have behaved disgracefully in my opinion," he said.

Genius i was talking about nationalities who are living and woking in uk ..

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[flamer84]

I was talking about minimum wages in UK when polish and Romanian joined the EU ...Minimum £7.20 pay hourly rate was started in this year.Pay rise is not as good as rate of inflation. Before eastern European joined EU they used to give you double rate for working on weekend and for hours over 37 hours and it all got change as now its almost flat rate now with most working on zero hours contracts .I was talking about English proficiency of those majority of eastern Europeans who are in low skilled jobs i.e in construction industry, warehouses, farms, cleaning etc and they hardly can speak or understand English unlike others nationalities who come to uk after passing some English language test


http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/11/labour-ciriticse-tesco-next-cheap-labour

"It is unfair that unscrupulous employers whose only interest seems to be finding labour as cheaply as possible will recruit workers in large numbers in low-wage countries in the EU, bring them to the UK, charge the costs of their travel and their substandard accommodation against their wages and still not even meet the national minimum wage. "That is unfair. It exploits migrant workers and it makes it impossible for settled workers with mortgages and a family to support at British prices to compete."

"Take the case of Tesco, who recently decided to move their distribution centre in Kent," he will say. "The new centre is larger and employs more people, but the staff at original site, most of them British, were told that they could only move to the new centre if they took a cut in pay. The result? A large percentage of the staff at the new centre are from [the] eastern bloc."

The claim that Tesco has given jobs to cheaper eastern bloc workers at the expense of British staff has been backed by Robert Halfon, the Tory MP for Harlow, where the original centre was based.

"Tesco have behaved disgracefully in my opinion," he said.

Have you ever thought that this is one of the reasons why the British economy is doing well unlike other EU countries ? Lower wages makes them more competitive.Even if 1/4 of EE workers are in high qualified jobs that still makes almost 500k while only 1/3 are on the lower end...the rest are somewhere in the middle.It's pretty far fetched that 2 millions of them would all be engineers,doctors,IT,etc.Somebody has to do the lower end to and that's a fact for every country out there not only the UK.

The fact remains that hiking wages would lead to loosing competiveness,a fact I suspect would sink into the British reality after the BREXIT.I eagerly anticipate to see how if they go,wages will rise and all with be honky dory.

After all said and done,i've posted an article in this thread which shows that,overall,EE workers gave more than they took to the British economy while non EU migrants,highly qualified in English and working as you describe them took more from the state than they gave so they're a burden.EE workers are not.Math doesn't lie.

Long story short,how can they be accused of leaching when they gave more while non EU migrants drained the British state of hundreds of billions of £? It doesn't make sense....throw the ones who contribute to the budget,keep the ones who drain the budget for welfare.

 

[Pakistani E]

What a crew.
-
Anyway,I have seen some documentaries about the Brexit and interestingly,people were more worried about the immigration from eastern europe than africa,middle east etc. Are those eastern europeans really a big issue ?
Of course as the conditions of immigration were made easier when they acceded to the EU,many moved to UK in hope to find a work and to have a better life,and of course.... of course.... some brought with them their criminal activities to the UK,but is that really a big issue ? They work,pay taxes,support the welfare state and the elderly ? Maybe I am wrong ? enlighten me,please.

@waz @Kaptaan @Pakistani Exile @Blue Marlin @Steve781

Well it is harder for non E.U migrants to come to the U.K for work:

"To settle in the UK as a skilled worker, non-EU migrants need to have a Tier 2 visa. For this you need:

• An offer for a job in the UK that pays at least £20,800
• Have had at least £945 in your bank account for 90 days
• A certificate of sponsorship from your employer (which can cost between £536 and £1,476)
• To pay a £200 annual healthcare surcharge
• To prove your English language proficiency

After five years on this visa, skilled workers are able to apply for ‘indefinite leave to remain’ – and this is what is about to change.

From April, anyone applying for indefinite leave to remain will need to earn at least £35,000."


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/12/from-...arning-less-than-35000-5748436/#ixzz4AVozJxxj

Well in my opinion, people here actually want to see a cut in Non E.U migrants as well. You won't find many people here wanting to welcome too many refugees. Most of the non skilled migration to the U.K from non E.U countries is now relegated to asylum cases, family migration and students. The largest number of whom are students, mainly Chinese. The singling out of E.U migrants is not correct in my opinion but this is what is happening, perhaps because there is a perception that the U.K doesn't really have control or say in that matter and that anyone can come to the U.K, work here while claiming benefits for their children in their own countries then return.

 

[waz]

The singling out of E.U migrants is not correct in my opinion but this is what is happening, perhaps because there is a perception that the U.K doesn't really have control

That's the number one issue now, along with sovereignty and greater integration.