The U.S. refused to supply Pakistan with the 6.6 ton AH-1W model

[OrionHunter]

This is also a lesson for Pakistan to learn that not to rely on US for defence hardware & so on.

It is extremely difficult to sever the umbilical chord with the U.S as they have been providing aid to Pakistan since 1947. The infrastructure required for a complete changeover would be prohibitive.

 

[airmarshal]

The Indian factor...that is why we can not easily acquire platforms like Apache...especially on discount.

Not really I guess. We did get F-16s and they are not inferior like those being supplied to Iraq. I think some other factors at play here.

It is extremely difficult to sever the umbilical chord with the U.S as they have been providing aid to Pakistan since 1947. The infrastructure required for a complete changeover would be prohibitive.

Really!!! umbilical cord??!! There was no 'aid' for long periods of time. What do you Indians think of Pakistan?

Just to let you know, the whole fleet of F-16s, bought in 1982 and in 2004 was from Pakistan's own money. Also the sanctioned 28 F-16s, the original order was 71, were also bought of Pakistan's own money not aid.

When you Indians talk of Pakistan, you sound very stupid indeed.

 

[Metanoia]

Not really I guess. We did get F-16s and they are not inferior like those being supplied to Iraq. I think some other factors at play here.

We managed to get F-16's because that was our set benchmark and we were definitely not going to opt for anything below that platform...no way. Another aspect to look here is that there are strings attached to these F-16's...they are purely for defensive purpose only and we actually had to fight to get these inducted..it wasn't easy.

The Indian factor is not the only reason but nonetheless it is one of the chief contributing factor...whilst the other being financial and the overall condition of our country.

Platforms like the Apache, Predator, F-35 or some advance warship is a no-no for Pakistan.

PS: Indian factor consists of two angles...first is the pressure applied by the Indian lobby and the second is the US policy vis-a-vis containing China; which translates to a weak Pakistan and a strong India.

PPS: Much like the Iraqi F-16s in relation to its neighbours....Pakistani F-16's also do not pose a serious threat to India...they can perfectly fulfill the requirement for our defence only.

 

[Rangila]

All of the above is possible but not without $$ we don't have.

Pakistan wants more helicopter gunships, in particular it wants some new helicopters rather than used stuff to supplement, and replace the 35 AH-1S and AH-1F gunships it already has.

 

[acid rain]

We managed to get F-16's because that was our set benchmark and we were definitely not going to opt for anything below that platform...no way. Another aspect to look here is that there are strings attached to these F-16's...they are purely for defensive purpose only and we actually had to fight to get these inducted..it wasn't easy.

The Indian factor is not the only reason but nonetheless it is one of the chief contributing factor...whilst the other being financial and the overall condition of our country.

Platforms like the Apache, Predator, F-35 or some advance warship is a no-no for Pakistan.

PS: Indian factor consists of two angles...first is the pressure applied by the Indian lobby and the second is the US policy vis-a-vis containing China; which translates to a weak Pakistan and a strong India.

PPS: Much like the Iraqi F-16s in relation to its neighbours....Pakistani F-16's also do not pose a serious threat to India...they can perfectly fulfill the requirement for our defence only.

What did we do? we have no say in your defense relations with the US similar to the aid money the US provides.

Dont you think it has anything to do with your closeness to china and possible clandestine leakage of defense tech to them? most of chinese equipment has close resemblance to the US or Russian one's. So the americans are probably not trusting you with the high end stuff.

Secondly, it could be due to the double dealing that the US accuse you of.

 

[Metanoia]

What did we do? we have no say in your defense relations with the US similar to the aid money the US provides.

Dont you think it has anything to do with your closeness to china and possible clandestine leakage of defense tech to them? most of chinese equipment has close resemblance to the US or Russian one's. So the americans are probably not trusting you with the high end stuff.

Secondly, it could be due to the double dealing that the US accuse you of.

Could be no doubt as I already mentioned that the overall situation of the country has it's own role to play....but the Indian lobby does do what it has to do...no denying the fact because otherwise what's the use?

There is no literal comparison but you can certainly draw parallel in the case of Mirage-2000 for PAF and how the deal got shelved.

Anyways...I didn't say that this is the only reason.

 

[acid rain]

Could be no doubt as I already mentioned that the overall situation of the country has it's own role to play....but the Indian lobby does do what it has to do...no denying the fact because otherwise what's the use?

There is no literal comparison but you can certainly draw parallel in the case of Mirage-2000 for PAF and how the deal got shelved.

Anyways...I didn't say that this is the only reason.

One thing we need to understand is too big with its own agenda's and geopolitics about countries and regions. Lobbies cannot influence them so much for them to give up their goals.

What lobbies can do is work for their own interests with the US.

The same is the case with the french. But lets stick to the US atm because there are examples of Pakistan lobbying against India for e.g. the OIC by preventing Indias entry to it despite we being the worlds second largest muslim populated country or with the chinese.

The thing is, its much too difficult to influence the US because they normally do their own thing....and, I am sure the hold back is for reasons that I mentioned rather than India's lobbying, besides, our US diplomats dont have that much of time to bother about what happens between you and the US.

 

[Munir]

It is not entirely correct that the USA was not willing to supply... We want them probably for free. No sane producer would accept that.

 

[airmarshal]

We managed to get F-16's because that was our set benchmark and we were definitely not going to opt for anything below that platform...no way. Another aspect to look here is that there are strings attached to these F-16's...they are purely for defensive purpose only and we actually had to fight to get these inducted..it wasn't easy.

The Indian factor is not the only reason but nonetheless it is one of the chief contributing factor...whilst the other being financial and the overall condition of our country.

Platforms like the Apache, Predator, F-35 or some advance warship is a no-no for Pakistan.

PS: Indian factor consists of two angles...first is the pressure applied by the Indian lobby and the second is the US policy vis-a-vis containing China; which translates to a weak Pakistan and a strong India.

PPS: Much like the Iraqi F-16s in relation to its neighbours....Pakistani F-16's also do not pose a serious threat to India...they can perfectly fulfill the requirement for our defence only.

i dont agree F-16s are for defensive purposes only or the India angle in it. You are entitled to your opinion of course.

Pakistan has JDAMs, AIM-120 AMRAAM and now soon will have AIM-9X mounted on these F-16s. They are defensive weapons used in an offensive.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Its a bit confusing that even with the special status we enjoy , we can't get a very basic requirement for Pakistani Military
Helicopters like Chinooks and Newer models of helicopter gunships

Perhaps our head of military are not properly using that special status to attain surplus equipment

I mean US Military retires surplus equipment all the time every year yet we have not recieved any surplus item as of yet for a long period of time

The Helicopters owuld have been a great addition

 

[haman10]

there are always alternatives

u can have the same thing with updated features from iran . we deliver the same shyte without any hesitation , bloated Ego and other supermacist garbage .

Iranian toofan 2 , upgraded version of what u want :

Top notch electronic warfare systems , guidance systems , .....

==========================================

Tehran, Jan 2, IRNA – The advanced combat helicopter dubbed ˈToofan 2ˈ became operational on Wednesday.


The helicopter was unveiled during a ceremony attended by Defense Minister Brigadier General Ahmad Vahidi.



High invasion power, precise targeting ability, digital fire control system and night vision is among the remarkable features of the copter.



Talking in the inauguration ceremony, the minister referred to the use of 11 advanced technologies in Toofan 2 copter, saying that it matches the best and most up-to-date world standards.



He also pointed to Iran’s achievements in air industries and said that the industry is presently among the world top ten in terms of designing and manufacturing air industry parts and equipment.



The minister also said that Toofan 2 enjoys a bunch of domestic technologies in electronics, optics, laser and arms fields.



He believed the production of such an advanced helicopter by Iranian experts is just one of the outcomes of sanctions imposed on Iran which has boosted creativity and productivity in the country.


Iranian advanced combat helicopter becomes operational

 

[Luftwaffe]

This is a not an unexpected good news. Less American weapons mean, less dependancy on America.

Mi-35s will take care of our night raids by Special Ops, later the AH-1S/F can be replaced by T-129B or a matured Z-10.

Z-10 has already matured to some point many things rectified it is an on going process what we can do is take some capabilities of T-129 and mate it with Z-10, now the question is how good is the Armor of Z-10 AFAIK T-129 is next to AH-64, this is the only best solution currently.

I failed to understand egypt used to get almost anything and Pakistan has to beg literally. The conclusion is stop being dependent get a product from Chinese/Russians gather your engineers and work upon it to make customized or better product according to requirements.

 

[Kompromat]

@Luftwaffe

T-129B built at PAC remains our best bet. They are more than a worthy replacement for AH-1S/F

 

[Luftwaffe]

@Luftwaffe

T-129B built at PAC remains our best bet. They are more than a worthy replacement for AH-1S/F

For a long term T-129 is the best option Gunships don't go obsolete so making min certain number per year is not a big deal is it? But I still say we would need replacement for light attack gunships like AH-1 and Z-19 looks promising...

Have we become that pathetic to not arrange a couple of billion dollars when this pathetic government arranges billions upon billions for themselves with no Audits.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

First of all Pakistan should now completely stop begging from US & they should look for alternate options. For China & Russia are the best option for Pakistan. MI35 cannot be called full fledged attack helicopter as it is also carry troops, for me MI28 Havoc & WZ10 are the best available option for PA & PA should go for it asap & replace the aging dying fleets of cobras. Soon we will also face problems with US F16 & US will not help Pakistan in spare parts & so on, so Pakistan needs to look for other better options & solve this problem before it starts or else we will suffer like old dying cobra gunships.

Pakistan needs to forget that US will give them modern or required defence hardware & search & settle for best long term available options.

This is also a lesson for Pakistan to learn that not to rely on US for defence hardware & so on.

--
dear your best weapson f16 is USA...
russia may give attack heli too. but then do you think you will acces the usa weaponary