The rise of India’s neo middle class

[Nilgiri]

Don't worry, he never/rarely tags me. Join the club.

I tagged you here!

 

[Joe Shearer]

I tagged you here!

Huh!

The exception that proves the rule.

Bong-baiter.

 

[Nilgiri]

Huh!

The exception that proves the rule.

Bong-baiter.

Whatever happened to @LaBong anyway? Haven't seen him around in a while.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Whatever happened to @LaBong anyway? Haven't seen him around in a while.

One or two more who have vanished.

 

[Nilgiri]

One or two more who have vanished.

Thats too bad, he was a good sort, made me chuckle quite a few times.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thats too bad, he was a good sort, made me chuckle quite a few times.

Lose too many good people. BangGalore, Cap'nPopeye.

 

[Nilgiri]

Lose too many good people. BangGalore, Cap'nPopeye.

Its true, I only caught the tail end of their presence on this forum I suppose. Made lots of tongue in cheek fun of capnpopeye (being a big fan of the show as a kid). BangGalore knew so much and was very thoughtful and measured, a real pity we lost them.

 

[Grevion]

Sorry man, I type them up each time instead of copy and paste. I have found theres better luck of the tags actually working if I do it this way.

So whoever pops up in my head and I briefly look at who's active post wise in the relevant subforum I am posting in.

But you are a big name for me, I dunno why I missed it in my head. Apologies

I'm glad to know that.
Apologies accepted.

Don't worry, he never/rarely tags me. Join the club.

You seems to have a beef with many members here in the forum. I don't blame them and I don't blame you.

 

[Nilgiri]

I don't blame them and I don't blame you.

Are you Swiss by any chance?

 

[Joe Shearer]

I'm glad to know that.
Apologies accepted.

You seems to have a beef with many members here in the forum. I don't blame them and I don't blame you.

Usually I chicken out. Not my mutton and potatoes.

 

[Grevion]

Are you Swiss by any chance?

Nahh. Hardcore Indian baniya.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

This is what makes the Foreign Companies drool over India. An expansive middle class with an appetite of higher goods.

But again our cities are already big. Its painful to see state governments are not promoting Tier2 and Tier 3 cities in their states. Coimbatore, Tuticorin, Tirupur, Tiruchy can take a lot of stress away from Chennai. But I have never seen government take efforts in improving infrastructure in the said cities.

Same for Karnataka. Bangalore is the only city they promote, and bit Mysore. Each states need 3-4 Megacities with industries. And Infrastructure must be built now rather than later.

 

[wiseone2]

What is the definition of "Middle Class" in India? Thanks in advance!

middle class definition is hard. it is a function of income, wealth and state of mind

 

[Dungeness]

No, not so. Here there are some difficult paradigms to absorb. My figures are dated; please take them as illustrative.

The figures below are annual, incremental, not total.

13m. people enter the job market each year. 8m. DO NOT get jobs. They are very largely in the rural and tribal (forest) areas. There people subsist - or survive. 5m. do get jobs, of which in the region of 0.5m get regular salaried, pensionable jobs, more than half in the government. The private sector still does not employ as many people as the government and public sector undertakings.

What you are looking at, in the cities, is the 4.5m people who get jobs (=employment) in the unregulated market. They perform services, or are engaged in maintenance and repair, overlapping light engineering to the extent that sometimes light industrial processing is involved as well as mere replacement of parts. They earn a subsistence wage, but progressively earn enough for consumer goods purchases, entertainment and the occasional 'pilgrimage' holiday. Healthcare is a killer and cripples families when any individual is stricken, even with minor accidental problems or with illness.

It is more than survival but just a little more.

Thanks for the reply.

It is a matter of setting the priorities, which should happen first, urbanization or industrialization. I don't think the landless poor farmers rushing into cities seeking "informal" jobs is the best way to urbanize a country, any country. What happened in China in the past 30 years maybe of reference value for a developing country like India.

In the 80's, tens of thousands of overseas Chinese from HK and Taiwan brought their small manufacturing business into coastal China, and offer attractive salaries to redundant farm hands. Millions of young people left their rural hometowns, while kept their share of land with their parents, so they still have a home/social safety network to go back to/fall back on if the new life in the city did not work out as expected. These internal migrates were the real power that transformed China in the last 30 years.

It seems it is a different case in India. Adding a few hundred million population to urban slums doesn't mean urbanization in a positive sense.

I am not able to understand what you want to say. You cannot increase consumption 3 folds in last 10 years without an proportionate rise in incomes.

Here is how you can increase the number of "middle class" without doing anything

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thanks for the reply.

It is a matter of setting the priorities, which should happen first, urbanization or industrialization. I don't think the landless poor farmers rushing into cities seeking "informal" jobs is the best way to urbanize a country, any country. What happened in China in the past 30 years maybe of reference value for a developing country like India.

In the 80's, tens of thousands of overseas Chinese from HK and Taiwan brought their small manufacturing business into coastal China, and offer attractive salaries to redundant farm hands. Millions of young people left their rural hometowns, while kept their share of land with their parents, so they still have a home/social safety network to go back to/fall back on if the new life in the city did not work out as expected. These internal migrates were the real power that transformed China in the last 30 years.

It seems it is a different case in India. Adding a few hundred million population to urban slums doesn't mean urbanization in a positive sense.

It certainly does not. We desperately need an industrialisation, and, more than that, the industrial culture that alone can make industrialisation a success. A few corners of the country had it; mainly the four metro cities. That is not enough. We need to create structured gainful occupation for 13 million people EVERY YEAR. Further increases in government strength, and militarisation, will not relieve the stress. Militarisation, at best, can allow more flexibility in making foreign police and international relations choices, along with all the complications that it brings; government employment actually needs drastic pruning, in the opinions of many.

You have pointed out correctly the seminal role of the overseas Chinese population in HK and in Taiwan. Unfortunately, we have no equivalent. For cultural reasons, perhaps, the overseas Indian population, in Singapore, or Malaysia,or Hong Kong, or Mauritius, or East Africa, mainly Kenya and Uganda, or Gibraltar, or even Great Britain, have had little or nothing to do with manufacture. There have been groups in Uganda who have had exposure to industry, but their models tended to be the twins of what would be done in India; not small manufacturers who could readily shift their production and transfer their technology back to India.

This is with reference to the diaspora under the British Empire; if you look at the places listed, the key will become clear. The second diaspora, of the professional middle class, rather than either the trading classes or the labourers taken to work as indentured labourers of the earlier wave, were professionals. They have adapted very successfully, but there is little that they could have contributed other than services, and they have done that to the fullest.

If there is a hint of desperation in Modi's constant refrain of 'Make in India', it is for this reason.