The possibility of the pakistan army defeating the taliban?

[Rajput_Pakistani]

I'm not a fan of fencing the border, instead Pakistan should open multiple official crossing stations or "ports" - the Afghan economy is a part of the Pakistani economy, it must be thought of and cared for (protected) in that way. Though I very much agree with you that the Talib and the US and Gulf and Peninsula arabs are not to be trusted, though we must realize that these function in partnership with political parties in Pakistan - so the only way to counter these is to be very honest with and to be clear to the Pakistani public - I hope whatever govt comes after this election, will make it their business to set up, create a framework for a Pakistan which is transparent and is very clear about what are Pakistani interests and what are not

Sir, i agree that economics is the way to future, but that takes time. Considering the number of weapons and fighters and history of Afghanistan, it will be long time before Afghanistan stabilize. We have 2 main trade points with Afghanistan, Torkham and Chamman. I have read some where that there is a plan for railway linking Gwadar-Mastong-Chaman. Such trade routes will be like Suez canals for Pakistan, as the goods from / to central Asia will pass through these route to Gwadar, but the problem is that there are many, who don't want Pakistan to be such economical power. And frankly in present condition we lack a strong leader who can get these things done. Look at the the kind of skepticism and opposition to Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline. So realistically speaking, we cant afford to leave any loop hole now. Trade is good but security is first. God forbid, that we have to see again a situation like 2001, where US invaded Afghanistan and all Al-Qaida crossed into Pakistan and spread through out Pakistan. What we were and look at us now in 2013.
I would say "Hope for the Best but prepare for the Worst"

 

[NP-complete]

I think the situation can be better phrased like this: There are militias in afganistan and pakistan but based almost entirely in afganistan because large areas are outside government control. among them are anti-pakistan militias. they will keep attacking pakistan untill afganistan gets all tidy. these militias get there money from opium mostly. i think there presence from pakistan will be eliminated soon.

 

[somebozo]

TTP is already defeated, just some final blows required now !!

extremism is growing thats something else, but TTP was reactionary, it got blowing bunches from Pakistan Army...just as we see the Americans leave, this organization will die, as for growing extremism and the possibility of producing new militant fronts against Pakistan, I think that would be decided by international anti-peace forces...

With the rising extremism in Pakistani society and daily show of tolerance towards minorities it would be logical to argue that TTP is transforming from a limited party of few into an ideological Hydra because the food (corruption, economic problems, rising poverty) is now plentiful. Earlier the extremist goons had to travel far off placed and put massive efforts into recruitment of man power (sexual reproduction) but now they can simply propagate their ideology in the news waves and find every rising cells of fresh recruits!

Reproduction and life cycle

When food is plentiful, many Hydra reproduce asexually by producing buds in the body wall, which grow to be miniature adults and simply break away when they are mature. When conditions are harsh, often before winter or in poor feeding conditions, sexual reproduction occurs in some Hydra. Swellings in the body wall develop into either a simple ovary or testes. The testes release free-swimming gametes into the water, and these can fertilize the egg in the ovary of another individual. The fertilized eggs secrete a tough outer coating, and, as the adult dies, these resting eggs fall to the bottom of the lake or pond to await better conditions, whereupon they hatch into nymph Hydra. Some, like Hydra circumcincta and Hydra viridissima, are hermaphrodites[5] and may produce both testes and an ovary at the same time.
Many members of the Hydrozoa go through a body change from a polyp to an adult form called a medusa. However, all Hydra, despite being hydrozoans, remain as polyps throughout their lives.

 

[muse]

If you look at this whole guns ad Afghans thing, at least in Afghanistan, you will conclude that the majority of persons who pose as fighters do so because of the lack of any other work that will pay as much -- The Afghan are going from a barter economy to a cash economy -- wage labor -- the family farm stuff is going to have a very difficult time unless they are integrated into the Pakistani markets - see the average Afghan farmer cannot make the kind of money he may once could have on crops that he raised as a barter/cash crop - Wheat? It's cheaper from Pakistan, Iran and Kazakh, Corn? same - cotton still has potential and allows Afghanistan to tie into economies of China India and Pakistan as a supplier, but the other players are so large that it will not really be able to make a dent other than as a supplier on the lower end.

So a lot of what you see as armed militancy is really are economics -- but this does not mean there are no real bad guys there - And there are Arabs there - it may sound impolitic, but if they are there, so is serious trouble.

It's terribly unfortunate that s policy was so anti-Pakistan or at least presented itself as anti-Pakistan, this killed it before it really ever got off the ground, it is the arrogance of the USMIL and CIA fanatics that enabled this catastrophe.

 

[Khan_patriot]

hello, I am gathering research and writing a paper on the possibility of the pakistan army defeating the taliban. I know thier are some highly well rounded and educated people out there and I was wondering what you all thought. Providing sources would be greatly appreciated.

first i would like to say that I am not by any means affiliated with any establishment in Pakistan civilian or otherwise and what i am about to say is my opinion and does not represent any policy whatsoever. So lets start:

The correct question is not whether the army is capable of defeating the Taliban, the correct question is whether the Pakistani establishment (political) is capable and willing to provide the correct backing needed for any successful military action because the civilian government has been traditionally slow on the political response and it was almost non existant.

Let us establish a basic fact that for any ''all military victory'' brute force, massive and indiscriminate use of fire power and all supporting assets arty, avn etc are needed more or less like the way used in conventional warfare.

The second factor is that any insurgency is between the government and its own people and the army cant use the brute force necessary for an ''all military victory'' but this is not an option and I am sure is known by our military top brass. The collateral damage done by such use of fire power although may produce ''victory'' to a larger extent than the present one but will also go against the very reason that the operation is being conducted (to bring peace and stability to the affected area and people), meaning no difference between the Taliban and the army.

In order to establish long and lasting peace in the region both political will as well as a military ''show of force'' to get these bafoons to the talking table but THE GOVERNMENT MUST NOT GIVE IN AND START THE PEACE TALKS THE TALIBAN MUST TAKE THE INITIATIVE because the if the initiative is taken by the government then it gives the Taliban an edge both psychologically and on the negotiation table.

just my two cents....

 

[asad71]

1. As explained by someone above there two groups of Taliban. One is the IEA which is the Afghan Govt of resistance against foreign occupation. This element's political position in international affairs is similar to Pakistan's.

2. The Pakistani Talibans are Pakistanis and Muslims. I am sure PA doesn't plan to defeat them per se or crush them. What PA and GOP is doing is to try and appease them to bring them round to the national mainstream.

3.The entire situation will change after the ensuing elections where this is a paramount issue. To understand what is unfolding, one must consider the dynamics in IEA, TTP, Pak politics and PA.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Pakistan army has conducted successfull military operations against talibans in swat, bajaur, waziristan and other areas but in the long run Pak army wont be able to defeat them because they are like malignant cancer.
What make them malignant is their Pashtun background, their ****** spirit ,ideological support from deobandis and deadly fighters like uzbek.
1- Pashtuns can be killed and defeated but history shows that they dont accept defeat , they continue on resisting untill your knees are bent in defeat. This happened in Afghanistan, talibans were first completely defeated by U.S, people thought they were finished for good but they gradually re-emerged and after decade they have become so powerful that now U.S is trying to negotiate with them...TTP is ideologically same as Afghan talibans but they are divided into many factions. Moreover ISI successfully extracted pro-pakistan faction from them like maulvi nazir, hafiz gul bahudir, mangal bagh etc and pitched these good talibans against bad talibans. So divided and fragmented TTP can not defeat Pak army, but would exhaust them. On the other hand Pak army also can not eliminate TTP because every religous extremist is potential candidate for talibans.
2- The most superb and dangerous fighters of TTP are uzbeks, when all of them are killed, TTP strength would be greatly reduced.
3- Deobandi madrassas and ulemas supporters of taliban mentality. Madrassas are recruiting centres for talibans and their ulemas are their trainers. Deobandi extremist organizations of Punjab like sipah e sahaba are contineous source of fighters for TTP. If there were no suicide bomb blasts against civilians by TTP , they might have been holy warriors of those pakistanis who belong to deobandi school of thought.

 

[Developereo]

hello, I am gathering research and writing a paper on the possibility of the pakistan army defeating the taliban. I know thier are some highly well rounded and educated people out there and I was wondering what you all thought. Providing sources would be greatly appreciated.

As people have pointed out, there are two parts to the answer: the will and the ability.

I will leave the question of will, since there are subjective assessments on that score, each colored by the proponents' politics and agendas.

So, let's focus on the ability of Pak army to defeat the TTP, the so-called Pakistani Taliban. We focus on TTP because Pakistan is not in the business of eradicating all Taliban from the face of the Earth. Even the US and NATO are focused on targeting certain factions of Afghan Taliban and negotiating with others.

Some people mentioned Sri Lanka and LTTE. While the Sri Lankan example is truly admirable, it is also a fact that an island is easier to defend than a country with a large, porous border. The LTTE was defeated only after India allied with Sri Lanka to deny LTTE safe-havens across the water.

The biggest problem for Pakistan is that, when attacked, TTP runs away to find safe shelter in Afghanistan. Whether this is due to the Afghan/NATO authorities' incompetence or complicity is up for debate; what is undeniable is that these safe havens exist. It is ironic that ISAF/NATO demand Pakistan to "do more" to clean up Pakistan yet they, with vastly more resources, can not do the same in their territory.

The big question on everyone's mind is what happens post-2014 NATO withdrawal. Of course, it is expected that a scaled down American presence will remain indefinitely, but how will it affect the TTP safe havens in Afghanistan and how much freedom will Pakistan have for hot pursuit of TTP terrorists into Afghanistan? The answer to those questions will ultimately determine the effectiveness of any Pak army campaign against the TTP.

 

[Mike_Brando]

I'm not a fan of fencing the border, instead Pakistan should open multiple official crossing stations or "ports" - the Afghan economy is a part of the Pakistani economy, it must be thought of and cared for (protected) in that way. Though I very much agree with you that the Talib and the US and Gulf and Peninsula arabs are not to be trusted, though we must realize that these function in partnership with political parties in Pakistan - so the only way to counter these is to be very honest with and to be clear to the Pakistani public - I hope whatever govt comes after this election, will make it their business to set up, create a framework for a Pakistan which is transparent and is very clear about what are Pakistani interests and what are not

Sir,i just want to ask you all one simple question:-who is providing arms,training and logistics to the TTP(i am not trolling by any mean)?i mean if you are successful in identifying those parasitic elements within the pakistani society then half of the battle will be won against the TTP.if you get to know the identity of these people then your forces can easily eliminate them and the TTP will no longer get arms,training and logistics so easily and will gradually become weak.only then you can launch a full fledged operation against them and neutralize them once and for all like what we are doing in India against those maoist scums.just my 2 cents!

 

[Donatello]

Taliban is not a chess game, not counterstrike that you can just kill and declare victory.

It's a mind set.

How can i know what the mind of the person next to me is thinking?

Did Americans see the Colorado shootings coming? Or the Connecticut shootings?

It's only after the fact that they say oh yes, the guy was a psycho.

 

[United]

The Taliban factor got diminished log back after 9/11,
Now its the Puktoon factor that is supporting, and puktoon are the heart of Pakistan that is why Nato with all its war machines is not able to do much against the puktoons of Pakistan........and then there are those who align themselves with this name but reality they are very much diffrent...............this period is test for the ppl of this province they should and they themselves must defeat this serpent which wants to destroy them.

Nato vs Puktoons some thing like this.

 

[MastanKhan]

hello, I am gathering research and writing a paper on the possibility of the pakistan army defeating the taliban. I know thier are some highly well rounded and educated people out there and I was wondering what you all thought. Providing sources would be greatly appreciated.

Miss,

You are illeterate about the subject in question that you posted---. It is never the military that had issues with capabilities fighting the insurgency----but it is the pakistani public that has problems here.

See---you had not done your homework at all---I doubt that you are capable of understanding it either---otherwise you would not have posted the question.

The day that the pakistani public decides that enough is enough---the military will fall in line. The COWARDS or the incompetent are the pakistani public---they have wished this menace upon themselves---. Now they have reached a stage that they have started bit-ching and moaning about it---but their whimpering will take them only so far.

You need to direct this question to the pakistani public as to why they didnot support their military a 110% right from day one.

 

[Kaniska]

hello, I am gathering research and writing a paper on the possibility of the pakistan army defeating the taliban. I know thier are some highly well rounded and educated people out there and I was wondering what you all thought. Providing sources would be greatly appreciated.

Army is always meant to defeat conventinal warfare...not the modern gurrilla warfare where terrorist become a suicide bomber.
Here is my opinion.

1- Pakistan Army has never been trained to fight a gurrila warfare or fight with insurgency as such except last 10 year.Because their army is trained with India specific in mind.
2- It is really difficult to assume that not only Pakistan Army but any Army would really be able to defeat Taliban. That does not mean to challenge the capacity of your Army, rather it means, Army is not meant for that.
3- Taliban is not an organised team of soldier where you will find him and kill him. Talibanism is an offshoot of religious fundamentalism...This is a concept, a mindset of a specific group of people. Army can kill the people and eliminate the organization.But how come army will remove the impression and mindset of the people. This is a issue realted to social upbringing of all the people who are grown up to hate everyone who are not like them....

4- Even if you will eliminate the organization and the people, the concept and idea of intolerance will find its place in a new name and new form...For example, LeJ....This is also same kind of the people like Taliban but with different flavour and different brand promoted by different financer...So when you eliminate Taliban, the void will be immidiately filled up by these terrorist groups....Remember...there is nothing called good terrorist and bad terrorist...As long as Pakistan and the society in Western part of Pakistan does not change, Taliban will thrive in different form with the help of different sponsors...

 

[MastanKhan]

Army is always meant to defeat conventinal warfare...not the modern gurrilla warfare where terrorist become a suicide bomber.
Here is my opinion.

1- Pakistan Army has never been trained to fight a gurrila warfare or fight with insurgency as such except last 10 year.Because their army is trained with India specific in mind.
2- It is really difficult to assume that not only Pakistan Army but any Army would really be able to defeat Taliban. That does not mean to challenge the capacity of your Army, rather it means, Army is not meant for that.
3- Taliban is not an organised team of soldier where you will find him and kill him. Talibanism is an offshoot of religious fundamentalism...This is a concept, a mindset of a specific group of people. Army can kill the people and eliminate the organization.But how come army will remove the impression and mindset of the people. This is a issue realted to social upbringing of all the people who are grown up to hate everyone who are not like them....

4- Even if you will eliminate the organization and the people, the concept and idea of intolerance will find its place in a new name and new form...For example, LeJ....This is also same kind of the people like Taliban but with different flavour and different brand promoted by different financer...So when you eliminate Taliban, the void will be immidiately filled up by these terrorist groups....Remember...there is nothing called good terrorist and bad terrorist...As long as Pakistan and the society in Western part of Pakistan does not change, Taliban will thrive in different form with the help of different sponsors...

Hi,

See---pakistanis need to follow the footsteps of their caliphs when dealing with any insurgency---. It is very simple to stop suicide bombing----wrap the blown pieces of suicide bombers body in fil-th---in pig skin---in sh-it---and display it---.

To win a war---you have to fight with the enemy's worst standards---. I have stated many a times before---an insurgency has a containment lifespan of 6 months----if you can wrap it up and crush it ruthlessly from top to bottom---without being bogged down in any peace talks.

Why can't the pakistanis win this war---because they are not a nation---they don't have an identity----they don't have any integrity---they have no HONOR in being who they are---.

There is a lack of concept of ownership of the NATION----all this PROUD PAKISTANI----PROUD TO BE A PAKISTANI---is a bunch of bull--crap---. All they can do is steal---loot and plunder---that is all pakistan is for---to fill up their pockets and bank accounts----what of taliban or fundamentalists---pakistanis care less---.

Any nation with an aota of honor and character and dignity would have taken out the taliban type right from day one---. But pakistanis being pakistanis---sold their souls again to these harbingers of death.

You people need to understand----pakistanis love to live in this fi-lth and infestation----they perversely cherish it. Never ever believe the sob stories of pakistanis when it comes to taliban or other issues---they all ar ethe creation of pakistanis due to their INACTIVE STANCE.