The number zero was invented in Ancient Pakistan

[Flintlock]

Your sources are not from peer reviewed journals.

They're from some meeting (perhaps in India) that took place in 1927.

The original of that meeting is held at the University of California.

It is not a statement by the University of California.

My articles are from peer reviewed journals of the modern day

Two examples of my articles from peer-reviewed journals of today:

“Exponentiation and Euler measure,” is reminiscent of an interesting “mistake” made by Brahmagupta of Multan in his 6th century treatise Brahmasphutasiddantha."
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/math/pdf/0203/0203289v2.pdf

Its not - which journal was it published in? How many works have cited it?

My references are from published books, so worth more than these online .doc files.

As we know the concept of zero, was originated in Ancient India. It was indicated by a dot and was termed Pujyam. The word zero comes from the Arabic sifr, meaning “empty or vacant”, a literal translation of the Indian Sanskrit shunya meaning “void or empty”. Indians became adept mathematicians around 3000BC, but only the usage of zero became well known around the 6th century when Brahmagupta of Multan formulated rules of operation usig it. For 400 years from the 6th century, India was foremost in maths, and zero began its journey around the world. With the rise of trade among Arabs, Greeks and Indians, caravans carried more than goods to China, Arabia and Greece.
http://www.ooffouro.org/ita/RESEARCH/ABQ/OOFFOURO_ABQ%20- ResearchArea.pdf

It says "Brahmagupta OF Multan", not BORN in Multan. This is clearly a referene to Alberuni's work, which mentions that Bhillamal is situated between Multan and Patan. The author simply mentioned Multan as a matter of convenience, as Multan is the more recognizable town.

The other 3 references of mine are from some of the top univerity websites around the world.

So are mine.

One is from Lousiana State University, other is from University of California, LA, third one is from University College, London.

History of Indian Science

Written by "Subhash Kak"

Its you who is being biased. It doesn't matter what the origin of the writer it, but rather the institution which he belongs to.

In that case, I can point out that your references are from European universities which would make them liable to have Eurocentric attitudes, and hence biased.

All my articles are written by Europeans suggesting a degree (though not always) of neutrality. You've got one neutral author who wrote an article on medicine that says Brahamgupta was born in Rajasthan. I will credit this one.

You are simply being racist by assuming that European researchers carry more weight than ones with Indian-sounding names.

Also, you have avoided replying to this part of my post:


In that case, please establish a source for the French website's claim of him being born in Multan. It should be either a published research paper that deals directly with the question of Brahmagupta's birth, OR it should be a book written on the history of mathematics.

Clearly, someone would have done research on the subject and come across a historical reference which proves his birth. If so, please produce that original document.
Until then, your source is no more acceptable than any other online academic source which describes his birthplace as Bhillamala.

tNow, regarding Alberuni's work, you cannot simply claim a mistranslation without providing an alternative translation that clearly specifies hat his birthplace was not Bhillamala.

 

[Flintlock]

In addition to my sources from University of California, Lousiana State University, University College London,
My Authentic Historical Source which clearly states that Brahmagupta was born in Multan (which you haven't proved was mistranslated)
My references to 3 standard published texts which mention his birthplace as Bhinmal,

Here are even more sources:

Bryn Mawr College, Philidelphia:

Brahmagupta was born in 598 CE in Bhinmal city in the state of Rajasthan of northwest India.
http://72.14.235.132/search?q=cache...al&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=51&gl=sg&client=firefox-a

This is a research paper which was Published in a journal (Journal of the American Oriental Society)

The Beginning of Utpala's Commentary on the Kha??akh?dyaka Author(s): David Pingree

 

[Flintlock]

To summarize so far, whuddowehave?

On Brahamgupta's Multan origins from Ancient Pakistan - he created the rules governing zero's usage

A very good neutral academic reference from Strasbourg University quoting Brahmagupta as from Multan
"Né en 598 au nord-ouest de l’Inde, à Multan, aujourd’hui au Pakistan, Brahmagupta passera une grande partie de sa vie dans la ville de Bhîlmal sous la protection du souverain Gurjara. "
Brahmagupta

Ok, that's one source claiming that he was born in Multan.

Another academic reference from an Italian researcher quoting Brahmagupta as from Multan
"Indians became adept mathematicians around 3000BC, but only the usage of zero became well known around the 6th century when Brahmagupta of Multan formulated rules of operation usig it. For 400 years from the 6th century, India was foremost in maths, and zero began its journey around the world. With the rise of trade among Arabs, Greeks and Indians, caravans carried more than goods to China, Arabia and Greece."
http://www.ooffouro.org/ita/RESEARCH/ABQ/OOFFOURO_ABQ%20- ResearchArea.pdf

It says OF Multan, not Born in Multan. If OF means Born, then all my references from Alberuni and all my quotations from books should be interpreted in the same way, if not, then your reference is worthless.

Yet another academic reference, this time from the University of Wisconsin, quoting Brahamgupta as from Multan, Pakistan

“Exponentiation and Euler measure,” is reminiscent of an interesting
“mistake” made by Brahmagupta of Multan in his 6th century treatise
Brahmasphutasiddantha."
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/math/pdf/0203/0203289v2.pdf

Again, OF Multan, not Born in Multan.

What's that.. And ANOTHER reference to Brahmagupta as being Multan-born!! Can it be true??!!

"The eminent Multan-born Indian mathematician Brahmagupta (598 A.D. - 660A.D.) went on to give the rules of operation of zero in his treatise Brahmasphutasiddhanta as though zero were any other number. Today, his rules may sound trivial, but imagine their significance when zero was ‘nothing’ in the rest of the world."
http://www.vidyaonline.net/arvindgupta/numeracy.pdf

And this is a Non-Academic website. Neither is it a published work, nor is it a published book.

If that source is valid, then so are all of these:

Brahmagupta Biography,Brahmagupta The Legend,Brahmagupta Interviews,Brahmagupta biography for kids,,Brahmagupta Autobiography, Brahmagupta, Numerical analysis, Chapa dynasty,Bhillamala, Bhinmal,History Biography for children,Life line of Brahmagupta,

Wapedia - Wiki: Brahmagupta

Term Paper on Astronomy. Essays, Research Papers on Brahmagupta

Brahmagupta - Kosmix

our scientists: BRAHMAGUPTA

Vidyapatha ::India's Largest Portal on Educational Information

TripAtlas.com - About Bhinmal

Which all unequivocally state that "Brahmagupta was Born in Bhillamala".

___________________________________________________________________

So basically you have just 2 credible sources one from Montreal University, other from Strasbourg University, which state clearly that "Brahmagupta was born in Multan. "

I have already explained that this is the result of convenience of mentioning a well-known city., as the work which ALL of these sources refer to is Alberuni's Indica, which states that Brahmagupta was born in Bhillamala in Rajasthan , near Multan.

But for now, lets take those 2 sources at face value.

Now, in comparison, I have

"...Brahmagupta, born AD 598 son of Jishu of Bhillamala near Multan..."
(Clearly refering to his Father as being from Bhillamala)
http://books.google.com.sg/books?id...rahmagupta+multan&lr=&client=firefox-a&pgis=1



"Brahmagupta, born in Bhillamala near Multan in in AD 598..."

http://books.google.com.sg/books?id...rahmagupta+multan&lr=&client=firefox-a&pgis=1

+

5 sources from UCLA, Lousiana State University, and University College London. Bryn Mawr College Phil., and

in addition

A research paper by author David Pingree from the Journal of the American Oriental Society.

 

[Khajur]

you got it wrong. kurkushetra is in Haryana, not near delhi. it is 160 km away from delhi. while hastinapur is closer to delhi.

It is basically teh region of doab and Bharat, derived from the name of the ancient king Bharata.


Even ancient Magadh, Pataliputra, is in Doab.

The kings (if you chose to call them that) were almost all small rulers of principalities from the ganga jamuna doab region.

U are quite right that Bharat was the name derived from from the name of the ancient king Bharata who was the great grand father of Kaurav & pandavs of Mahabharat(Great Battle) and was the Emperor of Akhand Bharat whose capital was hastinapur(Delhi).

Now Akhand Bharat refers region which comprise of Gandhar(western pakistan & Afganistan).

One more interesting thing,If u read about the one prime character named 'SAKUNI' in Mahabharat,u would he was the prince of Gandhar and his sister princess Gandhari(obviously derived from Gandhar) was married to Dhritarashtra,prince of the Kuru kingdom and became mother of Kauravas .

For Detail about the back fround of Mahabharat, u refer to wikipidia...

 

[roadrunner]

Its not - which journal was it published in? How many works have cited it?

One of those I quoted was from a Harvard University Mathematics professor writing for Cornell University.

My references are from published books, so worth more than these online .doc files.

They're books, but they're not written by those authors. Example of your book :

Proceedings.
edited by J.E. Parkinson, R. H. Whitehouse
Published by Printed at the Mufid-i-'Am Press, 1927
Original from the University of Michigan
Digitized 18 Nov 2008
718 pages

"Brahmagupta, born in Bhillamala near Multan in in AD 598..."

Your book is edited by Parkinson and Whitehouse, not written by them.

It was published by the Mufid-i--'Am Press in 1927.

First, they didn't do peer reviewing like nowadays back in 1927.

Second, you expect me to take the Mufid-i-'am seriously? It does not even state the author of that piece. It could have been BJP's Atal Vajpayee for all I know.


I hate to say this, but your first reference doesn't say what you're suggesting either.

"...Brahmagupta, born AD 598 son of Jishu of Bhillamala near Multan..."

That says he was born near Multan. It says that his father was Jishu of Bhillamala. Now that's also possible. But that to me suggests he was from Multan.

 

[roadrunner]

It says "Brahmagupta OF Multan", not BORN in Multan. This is clearly a referene to Alberuni's work, which mentions that Bhillamal is situated between Multan and Patan. The author simply mentioned Multan as a matter of convenience, as Multan is the more recognizable town.

LOL.

Why would it say Brahmagupta of Multan, but really mean he was from Bhillamala?

Please snap out of this denial mode.

There's clearly very strong connections with Multan.

So are mine.

One is from Lousiana State University, other is from University of California, LA, third one is from University College, London.

Nope. The ones you quoted from universities are not from those universities.

They are copies held by those universities of ancient books.

Example, the University of California reference is an obscure reference that could have been written by an Hindu and published in Muhid-i-'am press.

Since when was Muhid-i-'Am Press a souce of academic excellence?

Its you who is being biased. It doesn't matter what the origin of the writer it, but rather the institution which he belongs to.

In that case, I can point out that your references are from European universities which would make them liable to have Eurocentric attitudes, and hence biased.

European universities may well be Eurocentric, as many European writers.

That is why they are the best ones for writing about subcontinent literature.

They don't approach it from a Hindutva mindset.

Now if it was a European invention I'd want to find non European writers to confirm.

The nationality of the writer is one of the most critical pieces of evidence when considering a politicially charged piece of work.

You are simply being racist by assuming that European researchers carry more weight than ones with Indian-sounding names.

European writers carry more weight when writing on subjects to do with Indian history.

The Hindutva Indian writers are known forgers and have a known political agenda on subcontinental history, therefore European writers are more neutral.

Also, you have avoided replying to this part of my post:


In that case, please establish a source for the French website's claim of him being born in Multan. It should be either a published research paper that deals directly with the question of Brahmagupta's birth, OR it should be a book written on the history of mathematics.

Clearly, someone would have done research on the subject and come across a historical reference which proves his birth. If so, please produce that original document.
Until then, your source is no more acceptable than any other online academic source which describes his birthplace as Bhillamala.

tNow, regarding Alberuni's work, you cannot simply claim a mistranslation without providing an alternative translation that clearly specifies hat his birthplace was not Bhillamala.

The source of the Strasbourg reference is the University itself. They are of the opinion that Brahmagupta was from Multan, as are Montreal University.

5 references show a very strong connection to Multan. They can't all be wrong, being academic institutions.

You can't ask for more than 5 references. I'd say it was indisputable evidence he was born in Multan, even one of your references says he was born near Multan.

 

[roadrunner]

In addition to my sources from University of California, Lousiana State University, University College London,
My Authentic Historical Source which clearly states that Brahmagupta was born in Multan (which you haven't proved was mistranslated)
My references to 3 standard published texts which mention his birthplace as Bhinmal,

Here are even more sources:

Bryn Mawr College, Philidelphia:

Brahmagupta was born in 598 CE in Bhinmal city in the state of Rajasthan of northwest India.
http://72.14.235.132/search?q=cache...al&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=51&gl=sg&client=firefox-a

Flint, that's an MSc student's project

This is a research paper which was Published in a journal (Journal of the American Oriental Society)

The Beginning of Utpala's Commentary on the Kha??akh?dyaka Author(s): David Pingree

That doesn't say where he was born!! It says, and I quote "Brahmagupta of Bhillamala". Well, I never denied he lived in Bhillamala, neither did Strasbourg university, Montreal University, Wisconsin University, a Harvard University Mathematics Professor etc. But he was born in Multan is what those references were suggesting!!

 

[AliFarooq]

srry to break it guys, the number 0 was not used in india it originated from Sumerian culture in Mesopotamia, some 5,000 years ago.

 

[Flintlock]

LOL.

Why would it say Brahmagupta of Multan, but really mean he was from Bhillamala?

Please snap out of this denial mode.

There's clearly very strong connections with Multan.

Because, as I said, Multan is the more prominent town, and Alberuni mentions it as being in the vicinity of Bhillamala. It makes perfect sense if the author is not directly concerned with the birthplace of Brahmagupta.

The Strasbourg and Montreal univs probably took that second hand Multan reference and assumed it to be his birthplace.

Nope. The ones you quoted from universities are not from those universities.

They are copies held by those universities of ancient books.

My research papers, not books, are from those universities. Check it out again.

Example, the University of California reference is an obscure reference that could have been written by an Hindu and published in Muhid-i-'am press.

Since when was Muhid-i-'Am Press a souce of academic excellence?

Its not - check the author, and sine when was Muhid-i-am press NOT a source of Academic excellence?

You simply scream "HIndu" and "hindutva" when cornered. not cool.

European universities may well be Eurocentric, as many European writers.

That is why they are the best ones for writing about subcontinent literature.

They don't approach it from a Hindutva mindset.

I could claim that only Indian writers are qualified because they know better about their own history.

The fact is that the institution matters not the origin of the person, unless you can Prove that the said authors have right-wing sympathies, your protestations mean nothing.

Both the documents with Indian-sounding authors are from world-renowned universities - one from UCLA and other from Lousiana State Univ., and the third one from University College London, and a fourth one.

ANd a FIFTH Reference from a Peer-Reviewd Paper from a respectable journal about Oriental Studies.

All you have is a couple of unpublished documents from French Language Universities.

Hindutva Indian writers are known forgers and have a known political agenda on subcontinental history, therefore European writers are more neutral.

Wow. Talk about Stereotyping. All Muslims are terrorists. How does that sound?

The source of the Strasbourg reference is the University itself. They are of the opinion that Brahmagupta was from Multan, as are Montreal University.

What? ALL our sources are opinions of the academic staff at the universities. The University doesn't hold an "official opinion" on any matter.

5 references show a very strong connection to Multan. They can't all be wrong, being academic institutions.

Well, if you are talking about "connections", then Brahmagupta has Far Stronger Connections to India, because way more sources "connect" him with India than with Pakistan.

You have managed to produce only 2 sources which clearly mention his place of birth as Multan. Nothing more.

You can't ask for more than 5 references. I'd say it was indisputable evidence he was born in Multan, even one of your references says he was born near Multan.

Bullshit. I have 5 University documents, ONE Journal paper, and 3 published works.
Infact, I can produce many more published works from google books, but it would be redundant. However, if you insist, I can pile on many more published books which clearly state the facts.

 

[AliFarooq]

Robert Kaplan, author of The Nothing That Is: A Natural History of Zero and former professor of mathematics at Harvard University, provides this answer:

The first evidence we have of zero is from the Sumerian culture in Mesopotamia, some 5,000 years ago. There, a slanted double wedge was inserted between cuneiform symbols for numbers, written positionally, to indicate the absence of a number in a place (as we would write 102, the '0' indicating no digit in the tens column).

zero timeline
Image: KRISTEN MCQUILLIN
TIMELINE shows the development of zero throughout the world. The first recorded zero appeared in Mesopotamia around 3 B.C. The Mayans invented it independently circa 4 A.D. It was later devised in India in the mid-fifth century, spread to Cambodia near the end of the seventh century, and into China and the Islamic countries at the end of the eighth. Zero reached western Europe in the 12th century.

Writing Numbers

The Babylonians displayed zero with two angled wedges
The Babylonians displayed zero with two angled wedges (middle).

The Mayans used an eyelike character to denote zero
The Mayans used an eyelike character [top left] to denote zero.

The Chinese started writing the open circle we now use for zero
The Chinese started writing the open circle we now use for zero.

The Hindus depicted zero as a dot
The Hindus depicted zero as a dot.

The symbol changed over time as positional notation (for which zero was crucial), made its way to the Babylonian empire and from there to India, via the Greeks (in whose own culture zero made a late and only occasional appearance; the Romans had no trace of it at all). Arab merchants brought the zero they found in India to the West. After many adventures and much opposition, the symbol we use was accepted and the concept flourished, as zero took on much more than a positional meaning. Since then, it has played avital role in mathematizing the world.

The mathematical zero and the philosophical notion of nothingness are related but are not the same. Nothingness plays a central role very early on in Indian thought (there called sunya), and we find speculation in virtually all cosmogonical myths about what must have preceded the world's creation. So in the Bible's book of Genesis (1:2): "And the earth was without form, and void."

But our inability to conceive of such a void is well captured in the book of Job, who cannot reply when God asks him (Job 38:4): "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding." Our own era's physical theories about the big bang cannot quite reach back to an ultimate beginning from nothing--although in mathematics we can generate all numbers from the empty set. Nothingness as the state out of which alone we can freely make our own natures lies at the heart of existentialism, which flourished in the mid-20th century.

 

[Flintlock]

I hate to say this, but your first reference doesn't say what you're suggesting either.

"...Brahmagupta, born AD 598 son of Jishu of Bhillamala near Multan..."

That says he was born near Multan. It says that his father was Jishu of Bhillamala. Now that's also possible. But that to me suggests he was from Multan.

It clearly states that his father was Jishnu from Bhillamala, which is situated near Multan. Any other interpretation is wrong.

 

[Flintlock]

The source of the Strasbourg reference is the University itself. They are of the opinion that Brahmagupta was from Multan, as are Montreal University.

5 references show a very strong connection to Multan. They can't all be wrong, being academic institutions.

You can't ask for more than 5 references. I'd say it was indisputable evidence he was born in Multan, even one of your references says he was born near Multan.

You still haven't provided undisputed evidence (Original research papers on his origin OR historical documents. I'll AGAIN repeat my post.



In that case, please establish a source for the French website's claim of him being born in Multan. It should be either a published research paper that deals directly with the question of Brahmagupta's birth, OR it should be a book written on the history of mathematics.

Clearly, someone would have done research on the subject and come across a historical reference which proves his birth. If so, please produce that original document.
Until then, your source is no more acceptable than any other online academic source which describes his birthplace as Bhillamala.

tNow, regarding Alberuni's work, you cannot simply claim a mistranslation without providing an alternative translation that clearly specifies hat his birthplace was not Bhillamala.

 

[roadrunner]

Its not - check the author, and sine when was Muhid-i-am press NOT a source of Academic excellence?

Who is Muhhid-i-press? Do you know? They have absolutely no academic credentials.

They are a source of fictional and factual books. They even let loose a copy of the Jungle king on the subcontinent!

Are you trying to say Muhid-i-'Am press is a source of academic excellence comparable to Montreal and Strasbourg University?

 

[Flintlock]

More Published books that clearly state the facts:

Elementary Number Theory with Applications
By Thomas Koshy

"Brahmagupta, the most prominent Indian Astronomer and Mathematician, was born in Bhillamala..."
Elementary Number Theory with ... - Google Book Search

______________________________________________

Comparative Librarianship: Essays in Honour of Professor D. N. Marshall
By D. N. Marshall, N. N. Gidwani
Published by Vikas Pub. House, 1973
Original from the University of California
Digitized 7 Dec 2006
245 pages

"...he was a native of Bhinmal in Northern Gujarat..."
Comparative Librarianship: Essays in ... - Google Book Search

_________________________________________________________

Proceedings - Indian History Congress
By Indian History Congress
Published by , 1995
Item notes: 1994
Original from the University of Michigan
Digitized 29 Aug 2008


"Alberuni, I, 1 53, says that "Bhillamala, between the town of MULTAN & Anhilwara
, 1 6 yojanas from the latter place", was the birth-place of Brahmagupta who .."

http://books.google.com.sg/books?id...xeTSc79LqOMkQTD67nKCg&client=firefox-a&pgis=1

http://books.google.com.sg/books?oe...brahmagupta+bhillamala+alberuni&sa=N&start=10
___________________________________________________________________



That brings the grand total to 5 University sources, one Journal Paper, and 6 published works.
All the 6 published works identify his birthplace as Bhinmal.
______________________________________________________________

In Addition, here is a quote from Kim Plofker, Department of History of Mathematics
Brown University:

The _Brahmasphutasiddhanta_ mentions a ruler of a dynasty
whose capital was at Bhillamala in modern Rajasthan (and a ninth-century
commentator calls Brahmagupta "the teacher from Bhillamala"); I don't
understand the author's reference to Multan.
http://sunsite.utk.edu/math_archives/.http/hypermail/historia/apr99/0230.html

Clearly, if a professor of the History of Mathematics has no clue where the "Multan" reference came from, then its quite obvious that there ARE NO HISTORICAL SOURCES/DOCUMENTS for that claim.

The only historical sources about Brahmagupta are Brahmagupta's own work (which says it was written in Bhillamala), a ninth century commentator who calls him the "teacher from Bhillamala", Alberuni who refers to him as "Son of Jisnu, from Bhillamala between Multan and Anhilwara", and another source that describes him as the head of the observatory at Ujjain.

 

[Flintlock]

Who is Muhhid-i-press? Do you know? They have absolutely no academic credentials.

They are a source of fictional and factual books. They even let loose a copy of the Jungle king on the subcontinent!

Are you trying to say Muhid-i-'Am press is a source of academic excellence comparable to Montreal and Strasbourg University?

How does it matter? Check the author, and unless you can specifically prove that the publishers are deliberately printing fake stuff you don't have any point at all.