A.P. Richelieu
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Sorry, that is not how forums work.
If you do not want me here, then report a violation,in the same way as I just reported this posting.
The Mosul operation
- Thread starter Malik Alashter
- Start date
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If you do not want me here, then report a violation,in the same way as I just reported this posting.
bsruzm
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Poor you.
Falcon29
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You need to read through posts before quoting them. I'm addressing common sectarian themes seen in Arab media, and refuting them or rendering them insignificant. I clearly identify them as Iraqi's as well. Your criticism should be directed elsewhere.
ISIS is not politically driven as of 2013, prior, AQ in Iraq grew out of the war, but also had small presence in Saddam's era. Since 2013, they interfered in Syrian conflict under religious motive/agenda. So it no longer becomes political, just as ISIS in Sinai isn't politically driven, as I'm sure you'd agree.
EgyptianAmerican
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Nope still are, I'm sure you know how ISIS got all it's recruits?
1) Disbanding of all Baathists. I'm sure you know what Ba'athism is?
A Ba'athist society seeks enlightenment, renaissance of Arab culture, values and society. It supports the creation of one-party states, and rejects political pluralism in an unspecified length of time – the Ba'ath party theoretically uses an unspecified amount of time to develop an enlightened Arabic society. Ba'athism is based on principles of Arab nationalism, pan-Arabism, Arab socialism, as well as social progress. It is a secular ideology. A Ba'athist state supports socialist economics to a varying degree, and supports public ownership over the heights of the economy but opposes the confiscation of private property. Socialism in Ba'athist ideology does not mean state socialism or economic equality, but modernisation; Ba'athists believe that socialism is the only way to develop an Arab society which is truly free and united.
n Arab character. But his view on Islam was purely spiritual, and Aflaq emphasised that it "should not be imposed" on state and society.
How Saddam’s men help Islamic State rule
http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/mideast-crisis-iraq-islamicstate/
Saddam-era officers have been a powerful factor in the rise of Islamic State, in particular in the Sunni militant group’s victories in Iraq last year. Islamic State then out-muscled the Sunni-dominated Baath Party and absorbed thousands of its followers. The new recruits joined Saddam-era officers who already held key posts in Islamic State.
The Baathists have strengthened the group’s spy networks and battlefield tactics and are instrumental in the survival of its self-proclaimed Caliphate, according to interviews with dozens of people, including Baath leaders, former intelligence and military officers, Western diplomats and 35 Iraqis who recently fled Islamic State territory for Kurdistan.
One former intelligence commander who served in Iraq’s national intelligence service from 2003 to 2009 said some ex-Baathists pushed out of state agencies by Iraq’s government were only too happy to find new masters. “ISIS pays them,” he said.
That has boosted Islamic State’s firepower and tactical prowess. “This is not the al Qaeda we fought before,” said a prominent Sunni from Mosul who battled Islamic State’s forerunners. “Their tactics are different. These are men educated in military staff college. They are ex-army leaders. They are not simple minds, but men with real experience.”
Among the most high profile Baathists to join Islamic State are Ayman Sabawi, the son of Saddam Hussein’s half brother, and Raad Hassan, Saddam’s cousin, said the senior Salahuddin security official and several tribal leaders. Both were children during Saddam’s time, but the family connection is powerfully symbolic.
More senior officers now in Islamic State include Walid Jasim (aka Abu Ahmed al-Alwani) who was a captain of intelligence in Saddam’s time, and Fadhil al-Hiyala (aka Abu Muslim al-Turkmani) whom some believe was a deputy to Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi until he was killed in an airstrike earlier this year.
By disbanding the Ba'athists for no Reason you created ISIS, they want revenge and re-control over their land. See Poltical not Religious.
SADDAM’S GHOST: One of the thousands of pictures of former president Saddam Hussein that once dotted the country. This painting was in Tikrit in 2007, four years after Saddam’s fall. REUTERS/Nuhad Hussin
Where is Iraq’s Baath party today?
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/per...08/21/Where-is-Iraq-s-Baath-party-today-.html
Under the de-Baathification law of 2003, some 400,000 members of the defeated Iraqi army were stripped from government employment and denied pensions, leaving many disgruntled and angry.
Justin Marozzi, a strategic communications expert at NATO, said the alliance between ISIS and Baath remnants is “entirely opportunist,” and “if it’s a marriage of convenience, the husband and bride are united by their ghastliness.
“Although the Baathists provide much of the brainpower and some of the steel, they’re subordinate within what is a pseudo-religious experiment.”
Asked how a formerly secular party could mix with a jihadist group, Gabriel said: “Baathist ideology isn’t a static concept in post-Saddam Iraq.” It is “erratic, wavering, self-serving and amorphous.”
While both sides are taking advantage of each other, changes on ground will later show the real cracks of the “temporary” union.
“Both groups are taking advantage of a perfect combination of failed states, civil wars, sectarian tensions, outside funding from Turkey, Qatar and Kuwait, and costly mistakes by the United States,” Gabriel said.
“But if and when the negotiating begins for new lines to be drawn across Mesopotamia, it will be the Baathists at the table opposite the Iranian surrogates, not ISIS.”
Once in power, Baathists used religion either to counter the growing political opposition of the Islamists, or to promote their own clan in the regime’s structure
ANALYSIS: Iraq's Baath party: where are they now?
http://www.middleeasteye.net/in-dep...aqs-baath-party-where-are-they-now-1079222336
Middle East
The hidden hand behind the Islamic State militants? Saddam Hussein’s.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...97676c-cc32-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html
. All of the men, however, were former Iraqi officers who had served under Saddam Hussein, including the masked man, who had once worked for an Iraqi intelligence agency and now belonged to the Islamic State’s own shadowy security service, he said.
His account, and those of others who have lived with or fought against the Islamic State over the past two years, underscore the pervasive role played by members of Iraq’s former Baathist army in an organization more typically associated with flamboyant foreign jihadists and the gruesome videos in which they star.
Even with the influx of thousands of foreign fighters, almost all of the leaders of the Islamic State are former Iraqi officers, including the members of its shadowy military and security committees, and the majority of its emirs and princes, according to Iraqis, Syrians and analysts who study the group.
They have brought to the organization the military expertise and some of the agendas of the former Baathists, as well as the smuggling networks developed to avoid sanctions in the 1990s and which now facilitate the Islamic State’s illicit oil trading.
The Islamic State’s Baathist roots
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/04/baathists-behind-the-islamic-state.html
Review
Jul 20, 2015 - Most Saddam loyalists within ISIS have not been ideologically Baathists for a long time. Many of Saddam's officers became more loyal to ...
To further understand, why the Islamic State has grown and flourished so quickly, one has to take a look at the organisation’s American-backed roots. The 2003 American invasion and occupation of Iraq created the pre-conditions for radical Sunni groups, like ISIS, to take root. America, rather unwisely, destroyed Saddam Hussein’s secular state machinery and replaced it with a predominantly Shiite administration. The U.S. occupation caused vast unemployment in Sunni areas, by rejecting socialism and closing down factories in the naive hope that the magical hand of the free market would create jobs. Under the new U.S.-backed Shiite regime, working class Sunni’s lost hundreds of thousands of jobs. Unlike the white Afrikaners in SouthAfrica, who were allowed to keep their wealth after regime change, upper classSunni’s were systematically dispossessed of their assets and lost their political influence. Rather than promoting religious integration and unity,American policy in Iraq exacerbated sectarian divisions and created a fertile breading ground for Sunni discontent, from which Al Qaeda in Iraq took root.
The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) used to have a different name: Al Qaeda in Iraq. After 2010 the group rebranded and refocused its efforts on Syria. There are essentially three wars being waged in Syria: one between the government and the rebels, another between Iran and Saudi Arabia, and yet another between America and Russia. It is this third, neo-Cold War battle that made U.S. foreign policy makers decide to take the risk of arming Islamist rebels in Syria, because Syrian President, Basharal-Assad, is a key Russian ally. Rather embarrassingly, many of these Syrian rebels have now turned out to be ISIS thugs, who are openly brandishing American-made M16 Assault rifles. They are also designed for two purposes. To make Muslims look like backwards savage and pressure IRAN on their home turf. Notice how they mostly kill Muslims. Notice how they never mention Israel or try and fight the Jews.
Also, ask yourself these question?
Who put Saddam Hussein in power before George W. Bush invaded Iraq and had him killed?
Who over threw the Iranian government and handed it to Shah Reza Pahlavi (who ruled until Ayatollah Khomeini seized control in 1979, triggering the Iran hostage crisis) ?
Who first armed and trained Al Qaeda?
Let’s not get started on Israel and Saudi Arabia (where the toxic combination of wealth and religious extremism combine to feed Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups).
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-USA-pa...SIS-being-formed-If-so-why-and-to-what-extent
How Saddam's Former Soldiers Are Fueling the Rise of ISIS - PBS
www.pbs.org/wgbh/.../how-saddams-former-soldiers-are-fueling-the-rise-of-isis/ PBS
Oct 28, 2014 - Despite a deep philosophical divide between ISIS and the Baath Party, the two sides have found “sufficient coincidence of interest to overcome
America Created Al-Qaeda and the ISIS Terror Group
http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881
How America Made ISIS
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-engelhardt/how-america-made-isis_b_5751876.html
Because one of the important issue that lead to ISIS problem was Paul Bremer's decision to disband 400,000 people Iraq Army. So all these people were left with military training but without a job, and quite a few of them ended up in ISIS. While new Iraq army had little combat expirience.
Toppling of Hussein made a power vacuum in Iraq, the problem that was never solved during US presence in Iraq and that lead to ISIS.
they don't want an actual Religous state, ISIS is nothing more then a tool in a geo-political pawn game. They want power and revenge with The ba'athists wanting the power, the grieving family member who only wants revenge against america and the forced conscripts too scared to raise a peep.
I would say only 4% of ISIS is made up of mentally retarded Religious fanatics. In the end everything about ISIS since the beginning has been politically and emotionally charged not religiously. ISIS in Sinai is of course also made up of ex-MB members who were hunted but they are doing it for revenge and power not religion. I think people would understand by now.
As for Syria the Ba'athists always wanted to take over Iran so why not take Syria? And it lines up with their motives.
I could go on and on and prove to you why everything they are doing is not sanctioned by Islam.
But in the end you are simply a hypocrite/flip-flooper so why should I bother.
Nope still are, I'm sure you know how ISIS got all it's recruits?
1) Disbanding of all Baathists. I'm sure you know what Ba'athism is?
A Ba'athist society seeks enlightenment, renaissance of Arab culture, values and society. It supports the creation of one-party states, and rejects political pluralism in an unspecified length of time – the Ba'ath party theoretically uses an unspecified amount of time to develop an enlightened Arabic society. Ba'athism is based on principles of Arab nationalism, pan-Arabism, Arab socialism, as well as social progress. It is a secular ideology. A Ba'athist state supports socialist economics to a varying degree, and supports public ownership over the heights of the economy but opposes the confiscation of private property. Socialism in Ba'athist ideology does not mean state socialism or economic equality, but modernisation; Ba'athists believe that socialism is the only way to develop an Arab society which is truly free and united.
n Arab character. But his view on Islam was purely spiritual, and Aflaq emphasised that it "should not be imposed" on state and society.
How Saddam’s men help Islamic State rule
http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/mideast-crisis-iraq-islamicstate/
Saddam-era officers have been a powerful factor in the rise of Islamic State, in particular in the Sunni militant group’s victories in Iraq last year. Islamic State then out-muscled the Sunni-dominated Baath Party and absorbed thousands of its followers. The new recruits joined Saddam-era officers who already held key posts in Islamic State.
The Baathists have strengthened the group’s spy networks and battlefield tactics and are instrumental in the survival of its self-proclaimed Caliphate, according to interviews with dozens of people, including Baath leaders, former intelligence and military officers, Western diplomats and 35 Iraqis who recently fled Islamic State territory for Kurdistan.
One former intelligence commander who served in Iraq’s national intelligence service from 2003 to 2009 said some ex-Baathists pushed out of state agencies by Iraq’s government were only too happy to find new masters. “ISIS pays them,” he said.
That has boosted Islamic State’s firepower and tactical prowess. “This is not the al Qaeda we fought before,” said a prominent Sunni from Mosul who battled Islamic State’s forerunners. “Their tactics are different. These are men educated in military staff college. They are ex-army leaders. They are not simple minds, but men with real experience.”
Among the most high profile Baathists to join Islamic State are Ayman Sabawi, the son of Saddam Hussein’s half brother, and Raad Hassan, Saddam’s cousin, said the senior Salahuddin security official and several tribal leaders. Both were children during Saddam’s time, but the family connection is powerfully symbolic.
More senior officers now in Islamic State include Walid Jasim (aka Abu Ahmed al-Alwani) who was a captain of intelligence in Saddam’s time, and Fadhil al-Hiyala (aka Abu Muslim al-Turkmani) whom some believe was a deputy to Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi until he was killed in an airstrike earlier this year.
By disbanding the Ba'athists for no Reason you created ISIS, they want revenge and re-control over their land. See Poltical not Religious.
SADDAM’S GHOST: One of the thousands of pictures of former president Saddam Hussein that once dotted the country. This painting was in Tikrit in 2007, four years after Saddam’s fall. REUTERS/Nuhad Hussin
Where is Iraq’s Baath party today?
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/per...08/21/Where-is-Iraq-s-Baath-party-today-.html
Under the de-Baathification law of 2003, some 400,000 members of the defeated Iraqi army were stripped from government employment and denied pensions, leaving many disgruntled and angry.
Justin Marozzi, a strategic communications expert at NATO, said the alliance between ISIS and Baath remnants is “entirely opportunist,” and “if it’s a marriage of convenience, the husband and bride are united by their ghastliness.
“Although the Baathists provide much of the brainpower and some of the steel, they’re subordinate within what is a pseudo-religious experiment.”
Asked how a formerly secular party could mix with a jihadist group, Gabriel said: “Baathist ideology isn’t a static concept in post-Saddam Iraq.” It is “erratic, wavering, self-serving and amorphous.”
While both sides are taking advantage of each other, changes on ground will later show the real cracks of the “temporary” union.
“Both groups are taking advantage of a perfect combination of failed states, civil wars, sectarian tensions, outside funding from Turkey, Qatar and Kuwait, and costly mistakes by the United States,” Gabriel said.
“But if and when the negotiating begins for new lines to be drawn across Mesopotamia, it will be the Baathists at the table opposite the Iranian surrogates, not ISIS.”
Once in power, Baathists used religion either to counter the growing political opposition of the Islamists, or to promote their own clan in the regime’s structure
ANALYSIS: Iraq's Baath party: where are they now?
http://www.middleeasteye.net/in-dep...aqs-baath-party-where-are-they-now-1079222336
Middle East
The hidden hand behind the Islamic State militants? Saddam Hussein’s.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...97676c-cc32-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html
. All of the men, however, were former Iraqi officers who had served under Saddam Hussein, including the masked man, who had once worked for an Iraqi intelligence agency and now belonged to the Islamic State’s own shadowy security service, he said.
His account, and those of others who have lived with or fought against the Islamic State over the past two years, underscore the pervasive role played by members of Iraq’s former Baathist army in an organization more typically associated with flamboyant foreign jihadists and the gruesome videos in which they star.
Even with the influx of thousands of foreign fighters, almost all of the leaders of the Islamic State are former Iraqi officers, including the members of its shadowy military and security committees, and the majority of its emirs and princes, according to Iraqis, Syrians and analysts who study the group.
They have brought to the organization the military expertise and some of the agendas of the former Baathists, as well as the smuggling networks developed to avoid sanctions in the 1990s and which now facilitate the Islamic State’s illicit oil trading.
The Islamic State’s Baathist roots
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/04/baathists-behind-the-islamic-state.html
Review
Jul 20, 2015 - Most Saddam loyalists within ISIS have not been ideologically Baathists for a long time. Many of Saddam's officers became more loyal to ...
To further understand, why the Islamic State has grown and flourished so quickly, one has to take a look at the organisation’s American-backed roots. The 2003 American invasion and occupation of Iraq created the pre-conditions for radical Sunni groups, like ISIS, to take root. America, rather unwisely, destroyed Saddam Hussein’s secular state machinery and replaced it with a predominantly Shiite administration. The U.S. occupation caused vast unemployment in Sunni areas, by rejecting socialism and closing down factories in the naive hope that the magical hand of the free market would create jobs. Under the new U.S.-backed Shiite regime, working class Sunni’s lost hundreds of thousands of jobs. Unlike the white Afrikaners in SouthAfrica, who were allowed to keep their wealth after regime change, upper classSunni’s were systematically dispossessed of their assets and lost their political influence. Rather than promoting religious integration and unity,American policy in Iraq exacerbated sectarian divisions and created a fertile breading ground for Sunni discontent, from which Al Qaeda in Iraq took root.
The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) used to have a different name: Al Qaeda in Iraq. After 2010 the group rebranded and refocused its efforts on Syria. There are essentially three wars being waged in Syria: one between the government and the rebels, another between Iran and Saudi Arabia, and yet another between America and Russia. It is this third, neo-Cold War battle that made U.S. foreign policy makers decide to take the risk of arming Islamist rebels in Syria, because Syrian President, Basharal-Assad, is a key Russian ally. Rather embarrassingly, many of these Syrian rebels have now turned out to be ISIS thugs, who are openly brandishing American-made M16 Assault rifles. They are also designed for two purposes. To make Muslims look like backwards savage and pressure IRAN on their home turf. Notice how they mostly kill Muslims. Notice how they never mention Israel or try and fight the Jews.
Also, ask yourself these question?
Who put Saddam Hussein in power before George W. Bush invaded Iraq and had him killed?
Who over threw the Iranian government and handed it to Shah Reza Pahlavi (who ruled until Ayatollah Khomeini seized control in 1979, triggering the Iran hostage crisis) ?
Who first armed and trained Al Qaeda?
Let’s not get started on Israel and Saudi Arabia (where the toxic combination of wealth and religious extremism combine to feed Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups).
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-USA-pa...SIS-being-formed-If-so-why-and-to-what-extent
How Saddam's Former Soldiers Are Fueling the Rise of ISIS - PBS
www.pbs.org/wgbh/.../how-saddams-former-soldiers-are-fueling-the-rise-of-isis/ PBS
Oct 28, 2014 - Despite a deep philosophical divide between ISIS and the Baath Party, the two sides have found “sufficient coincidence of interest to overcome
America Created Al-Qaeda and the ISIS Terror Group
http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881
How America Made ISIS
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-engelhardt/how-america-made-isis_b_5751876.html
Because one of the important issue that lead to ISIS problem was Paul Bremer's decision to disband 400,000 people Iraq Army. So all these people were left with military training but without a job, and quite a few of them ended up in ISIS. While new Iraq army had little combat expirience.
Toppling of Hussein made a power vacuum in Iraq, the problem that was never solved during US presence in Iraq and that lead to ISIS.
they don't want an actual Religous state, ISIS is nothing more then a tool in a geo-political pawn game. They want power and revenge with The ba'athists wanting the power, the grieving family member who only wants revenge against america and the forced conscripts too scared to raise a peep.
I would say only 4% of ISIS is made up of mentally retarded Religious fanatics. In the end everything about ISIS since the beginning has been politically and emotionally charged not religiously. ISIS in Sinai is of course also made up of ex-MB members who were hunted but they are doing it for revenge and power not religion. I think people would understand by now.
As for Syria the Ba'athists always wanted to take over Iran so why not take Syria? And it lines up with their motives.
I could go on and on and prove to you why everything they are doing is not sanctioned by Islam.
But in the end you are simply a hypocrite/flip-flooper so why should I bother.
Last edited:
Falcon29
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f
Nope still are, I'm sure you know how ISIS got all it's recruits?
1) Disbanding of all Baathists. I'm sure you know what Ba'athism is?
A Ba'athist society seeks enlightenment, renaissance of Arab culture, values and society. It supports the creation of one-party states, and rejects political pluralism in an unspecified length of time – the Ba'ath party theoretically uses an unspecified amount of time to develop an enlightened Arabic society. Ba'athism is based on principles of Arab nationalism, pan-Arabism, Arab socialism, as well as social progress. It is a secular ideology. A Ba'athist state supports socialist economics to a varying degree, and supports public ownership over the heights of the economy but opposes the confiscation of private property. Socialism in Ba'athist ideology does not mean state socialism or economic equality, but modernisation; Ba'athists believe that socialism is the only way to develop an Arab society which is truly free and united.
n Arab character. But his view on Islam was purely spiritual, and Aflaq emphasised that it "should not be imposed" on state and society.
How Saddam’s men help Islamic State rule
http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/mideast-crisis-iraq-islamicstate/
Saddam-era officers have been a powerful factor in the rise of Islamic State, in particular in the Sunni militant group’s victories in Iraq last year. Islamic State then out-muscled the Sunni-dominated Baath Party and absorbed thousands of its followers. The new recruits joined Saddam-era officers who already held key posts in Islamic State.
The Baathists have strengthened the group’s spy networks and battlefield tactics and are instrumental in the survival of its self-proclaimed Caliphate, according to interviews with dozens of people, including Baath leaders, former intelligence and military officers, Western diplomats and 35 Iraqis who recently fled Islamic State territory for Kurdistan.
One former intelligence commander who served in Iraq’s national intelligence service from 2003 to 2009 said some ex-Baathists pushed out of state agencies by Iraq’s government were only too happy to find new masters. “ISIS pays them,” he said.
That has boosted Islamic State’s firepower and tactical prowess. “This is not the al Qaeda we fought before,” said a prominent Sunni from Mosul who battled Islamic State’s forerunners. “Their tactics are different. These are men educated in military staff college. They are ex-army leaders. They are not simple minds, but men with real experience.”
Among the most high profile Baathists to join Islamic State are Ayman Sabawi, the son of Saddam Hussein’s half brother, and Raad Hassan, Saddam’s cousin, said the senior Salahuddin security official and several tribal leaders. Both were children during Saddam’s time, but the family connection is powerfully symbolic.
More senior officers now in Islamic State include Walid Jasim (aka Abu Ahmed al-Alwani) who was a captain of intelligence in Saddam’s time, and Fadhil al-Hiyala (aka Abu Muslim al-Turkmani) whom some believe was a deputy to Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi until he was killed in an airstrike earlier this year.
By disbanding the Ba'athists for no Reason you created ISIS, they want revenge and re-control over their land. See Poltical not Religious.
SADDAM’S GHOST: One of the thousands of pictures of former president Saddam Hussein that once dotted the country. This painting was in Tikrit in 2007, four years after Saddam’s fall. REUTERS/Nuhad Hussin
Where is Iraq’s Baath party today?
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/per...08/21/Where-is-Iraq-s-Baath-party-today-.html
The hidden hand behind the Islamic State militants? Saddam Hussein’s.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...97676c-cc32-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html
.
The Islamic State’s Baathist roots
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/04/baathists-behind-the-islamic-state.html
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-USA-pa...SIS-being-formed-If-so-why-and-to-what-extent
How Saddam's Former Soldiers Are Fueling the Rise of ISIS - PBS
www.pbs.org/wgbh/.../how-saddams-former-soldiers-are-fueling-the-rise-of-isis/ PBS
Oct 28, 2014 - Despite a deep philosophical divide between ISIS and the Baath Party, the two sides have found “sufficient coincidence of interest to overcome
How America Made ISIS
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-engelhardt/how-america-made-isis_b_5751876.html
**** you, **** Al-Arabiya, Rueters, Hpost, almonitor and **** pbs.
There's nothing 'baathist' about this organization, it's formulated around religious agenda, it's an extremist organization with irrational goals. It's approach to implementing religion is idiotic. You're narrow minded like them, both ends of spectrum have no clue how to resolve issues facing the region, nor do you guys understand what Islam is supposed to inspire, let alone know how to implement.
If you need reference, look at the region, there is either extreme political Islam, or extreme secular Islam, where one plays no role in society, while other assumes everything about an society. And of course, both are non-inspiring, and has lead most people to not care about religion anymore, or develop distaste to it. Me pointing that reality out, is not intended to insult Islam. So cut the whining.
I'm not interested in this discussion, each person has his opinion. And leave your MB Egyptian business to yourself. **** you and the Egyptian MB, I don't care about it. They are your own people. And your assertions on Sinai are full of it, ISIS considers MB to be heretics, so again you're lying. Breakaways from MB are no longer MB stupid.
Now let people continue what was a totally normal discussion before you came along. My post was perfectly normal.
Hack-Hook
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Well let replace Iceland with for example Cyprus , Albania , Greece ,Oman , ....
Malik Alashter
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The iraqi forces launched an offensive from alqaiyara front towards the south of mosul.
Pentagon: peter cock
our Apache under the Iraqis proposals when they want use them they will be ready for Operation of mosul.
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@Malik Alashter
You will love this.
There are plans to create a buffer zone along the Turkey-Iraqi border with 10km depth. Similar to what we did in Syria.
http://www.milliyet.com.tr/ankara-nin-musul-plani-siyaset-ydetay-2328988/
You will love this.
There are plans to create a buffer zone along the Turkey-Iraqi border with 10km depth. Similar to what we did in Syria.
http://www.milliyet.com.tr/ankara-nin-musul-plani-siyaset-ydetay-2328988/
Malik Alashter
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This will trigger war that we both don't like it.
Erdogan is a stubborn person remind me with saddam.
Madali
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Create a new thread if you want to discuss that. Lets please stick to Mosul updates in this thread.
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Well, if 100.000 Iraqis march upon Turkey to seek refuge...this plan may be put into motion...If Turkey doesn't face a mass immigration from Iraq...then nothing will happen.
I'm again saying...we are not the enemy of Iraqis. So, stop threatening us with fighting.
Madali
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Does Iran have advisors in Mosul to help ISIS defeat the attacking Iraqis?
Is Hezbollah in Mosul defending the Arabs and Turkmen against the massacre that the Iraqis are going to do in Mosul?
Last question, what kind of mental gymnastics does one have to do to convince themselves that Iran and ISIS are friends in a battle to liberate Mosul? And oh yeah, does it cause migraine?
Malik Alashter
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But we are not the one who threaten Turkey please your boss is the one who who acting as a thug!!! against us
BTW your ministry of foreign affairs in Baghdad soon!! guess why?.
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I agree that Turkey should withdraw it's troops Iraqis do not want our troops on their soldiers.
But nobody in the forum could explain why Iraq wants our troops gone.
About Erdogan....he only made harsh statements after Ibadi threatened with "Regional War".... I still don't approve Erdogan's comments though.
Maybe to explain Turkish troops in camp Bashiqa are not threat to Iraq. We don't threat Iraq's sovereignty. Turkey trained 7000 regional soldiers in that camp whom fights against ISIS. Turkish troops in camp Bashiqa killed over 300 ISIS terrorists.
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