The Kargil Conflict Revisited

[MST]

Tell me when Army offered a statement of their endorsement for either of the 2 men?

The Army has actually been very smart about remaining behind the scenes and not commenting or endorsing any political related discussion. And here you come out from the blue with a list of Army "favorites"

Wah

Exactly! Here a former Chief of Staff is being humiliated every day in public. Openly called a liar. Army by remaining silent has shown that it has no love for Musharaff. People wouldn't have dared to go out in public like this had they know there was even a hint of Army support for Musharaff.

Musharaff's political career is over for sure. And to a great extent I think he may never be (def not in near future) able to return to Pakistan.

On another note as I look at Gen Kayani's behavior in the entire episode...5 years from now (if the next govt as well completes its term) we may realize that Gen Kayani is the best Army Chief Pakistan ever had.

 

[karan.1970]

Perhaps you did not mean to offend when you discussed the subject of a certain someone swimming up and down the drain.

Dont know what you mean here.. Please elaborate...

 

[karan.1970]

Your post doesn't reflect realities but is based on he same logic (illogic) of your brilliant journalists in hindustan

At least he has the courage to face hostile receptions on your garbage media shows while your 2 faced military and govt would be scared to come to our country and face our audience.

That's the difference between us and you people. The latter are hypocrites who obcess and think they can peddle lies about our military and get away with it before having their arguments totally debased

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Meghdoot#Aftermath

The operation and the continued cost of maintaining logistics to the area is a major drain on both militaries. Pakistan launched an all out assault in 1987 and again in 1989 to capture the ridge and passes held by India. The first assault was headed by then-Brigadier-General Pervez Musharraf (later President of Pakistan) and initially managed to capture a few high points before being beaten back. Later the same year, Pakistan lost at least one major Pakistani post, the "Quaid", which came under Indian control as Bana Post, in recognition of Bana Singh who launched a daring daylight attack, codenamed "Operation Rajiv", after climbing 1,500 ft (460 m) of ice cliff. Bana Singh was awarded the Param Vir Chakra (PVC) — the highest gallantry award of India for the assault that captured the post. Bana Post is the highest battlefield post in the world today at a height of 22,143 feet (6,749 m) above sea level.[12][13] The second assault in 1989 was also unsuccessful as the ground positions did not change. The loss of most of the Siachen area and the subsequent unsuccessful military forays prompted Benazir Bhutto to taunt Zia ul Haq that he should wear a burqa as he had lost his manliness.[14]

Biography of General Pervez Musharraf: His Past and Present

In May,1988, the Shias, who are in a majority in Gilgit, rose in revolt against the Sunni-dominated administration. Zia put an SSG group commanded by Gen. Musharraf in charge of suppressing the revolt. Gen. Musharraf transported a large number of Wahabi Pakhtoon tribesmen from the NWFP and Afghanistan, commanded by bin Laden, to Gilgit to teach the Shias a lesson. These tribesmen under bin Laden massacred hundreds of Shias.

In its issue of May,1990, "Herald", the monthly journal of the "Dawn" group of publications of Karachi, wrote as follows: " In May,1988, low-intensity political rivalry and sectarian tension ignited into full-scale carnage as thousands of armed tribesmen from outside Gilgit district invaded Gilgit along the Karakoram Highway. Nobody stopped them. They destroyed crops and houses, lynched and burnt people to death in the villages around Gilgit town. The number of dead and injured was put in the hundreds. But numbers alone tell nothing of the savagery of the invading hordes and the chilling impact it has left on these peaceful valleys."

Gen. Musharraf started a policy of bringing in Punjabis and Pakhtoons from outside and settling them down in Gilgit and Baltistan in order to reduce the Kashmiri Shias to a minority in their traditional land and this is continuing till today. The "Friday Times" of October 15-21, 1992, quoted Mr. Muhammad Yahya Shah, a local Shia leader, as saying: " We were ruled by the Whites during the British days. We are now being ruled by the Browns from the plains. The rapid settling-in of Punjabis and Pakhtoons from outside, particularly the trading classes, has created a sense of acute insecurity among the local Shias."

Zia became the first victim of the carnage unleashed by Gen. Musharraf on the Shias of Gilgit. Though the Pakistani authorities have not released the report of the committee, which enquired into the crash of Zia's plane in August,1988, it is widely believed in Pakistan that a Shia airman from Gilgit, wanting to take revenge for the May,1988, carnage, was responsible for the crash.

 

[Rafi]

The indian soldiers young and brave - were wiped out with GPMG's barrels glowing red - and the waves of indians being cut down, like the Punjabi wheat at harvest time. It was a sight to see, going through belongings to establish and confirm intel was very poignant - pictures of wives, girl friends, letters written.

Some where in the indian hinterland - these young women would be blissfully unaware - that their young mans, brains and guts were oozing over a bleak peak in a corner of the world.

 

[my2cents]

Now that he's a politician, he can say whatever comes to his mind. Anyway, why was there no official inquiry or investigation into the fiasco. If there was, why arent the results or even the investigation made public?

If they wanted to learn from their mistakes then they would constitute an inquiry and make necessary corrections. That is a sign of a professional army.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The indian soldiers young and brave - were wiped out with GPMG's barrels glowing red - and the waves of indians being cut down, like the Punjabi wheat at harvest time. It was a sight to see, going through belongings to establish and confirm intel was very poignant - pictures of wives, girl friends, letters written.

Some where in the indian hinterland - these young women would be blissfully unaware - that their young mans, brains and guts were oozing over a bleak peak in a corner of the world.

Another story, O Cacofonix?

 

[Manas]

Tonight with Moeed (Facts reveals on Kargil War) – 30th January 2013

 

[INDIC]

The indian soldiers young and brave - were wiped out with GPMG's barrels glowing red - and the waves of indians being cut down, like the Punjabi wheat at harvest time. It was a sight to see, going through belongings to establish and confirm intel was very poignant - pictures of wives, girl friends, letters written.

Some where in the indian hinterland - these young women would be blissfully unaware - that their young mans, brains and guts were oozing over a bleak peak in a corner of the world.

Seems like a movie scipt of LOLlywood movie.

 

[Manas]

The indian soldiers young and brave - were wiped out with GPMG's barrels glowing red - and the waves of indians being cut down, like the Punjabi wheat at harvest time. It was a sight to see, going through belongings to establish and confirm intel was very poignant - pictures of wives, girl friends, letters written.

Some where in the indian hinterland - these young women would be blissfully unaware - that their young mans, brains and guts were oozing over a bleak peak in a corner of the world.

Don't be so patronizing they are n't wives , mothers of poor civilians who are bombed inside mosques they went to pray or shot dead after being drag out of the they were traveling as it often seen in Pakistan.

they are wives , mothers of Indian solders well aware of what risk involved with military profession and they are proud of it.

 

[my2cents]

How can Musharaff say that it was military victory but was foiled by Nawaz Sharif when he went to US. Does he not know that any military adventure will have political fallout ?? Is he so naive??

Why doesn't Musharaff just admit it was a mistake and just move on??? He would still retain his dignity and maybe his followers will forgive him.

 

[Mav3rick]

How does it makes him a saint? It was cumulative effort of nation not just an effort from a dictator.

• He is still liar a absconded convict sought by law.
• He is still a shameless two faced person brought disgrace to dead soldiers by refusing to acknowledge dead bodies and later awarding some of them for bravery at his convenience
• He is still a person who humiliated put his own nation in from of international community and put it's on the board of shame
• He is still a person (coward indeed) enjoying good life outside while his mother land is burning

So Musharraf must be blamed alone for all the bad while credit for all the good things should be distributed equally? Funny.

Anyway, when the courts themselves and the law itself is such a dubious duo, how can one blame Musharraf? Can you please provide proof where Musharraf refused to accept bodies of martyred soldiers? it is all hearsay and propaganda. It was not Musharraf that put the country to shame, it was Nawaz Sharif in every which way! And what else can he do for the motherland when all the other siblings are hell bent on her destruction?

Thanks for being honest and accepting that Pakistan faced military and political defeat. Highlighted parts above are contradicting each other...

• Pakistan was winning but begged USA to let Indians stop onslaught?
• Pakistan was winning BUT "There were no Pakistani regulars involved but Pakistan withdraw it's forces".
• Pakistan did an excellent job by withdrawing something did not belongs to Pakistan forces even though they had upper hand
• PA was not involved so they did not accept dead bodies but PA was generous enough to give gallantry awards to some people by employing them in PA after they died in battle to honor them
  

You misunderstood my post, it was a political defeat as we failed to capitalize on our military achievements and had to abandon all military objectives because of a politician. Pakistan's 5k non regulars were holding 35k Indian Army and 10 squadrons of IAF at bay so you can only imagine what another 10k would have done! It was India that begged USA to force Pakistan out of Kargil which it did, well mostly anyway (we still hold some peaks). Even if we had held a single peak it would have been proof enough to any sane person that Indian Military was unable to repeal the fighters.

And the courage and dedicated that was displayed by NLI non regulars prompted the Military to induct them into regular army after which they were deserving of military honors!

OK ...Which war are you talking about ?? 65 or kargil or both .

The war/conflict that I was referring to should have been clear to be about Kargil when I said that India won the war as we failed to achieve our politicial objectives as 65 was a stalemate.

 

[Mav3rick]

Dont know what you mean here.. Please elaborate...

Here you go:

The key word being "WAS". Today he is a declared criminal wanted in Pakistan on charges of murdering a private citizen and assassinating an ex Prime Minister of Pakistan.. You may chose to go up or down the drain with that.. That's totally up to you..

 

[Paan Singh]

You misunderstood my post, it was a political defeat as we failed to capitalize on our military achievements and had to abandon all military objectives because of a politician. Pakistan's 5k non regulars were holding 35k Indian Army and 10 squadrons of IAF at bay so you can only imagine what another 10k would have done! It was India that begged USA to force Pakistan out of Kargil which it did, well mostly anyway (we still hold some peaks). Even if we had held a single peak it would have been proof enough to any sane person that Indian Military was unable to repeal the fighters.

And the courage and dedicated that was displayed by NLI non regulars prompted the Military to induct them into regular army after which they were deserving of military honors!

You still blv on lies?

We brought such stuff coz its not possible to bring down enemy on heights.
why cant you vacate siachin from us? coz we are sitting on heights .

You were in no position to hold those peaks coz..

1) supply lines were bombed.

2)Indian navy blocked your entire coastline and you were left with 2-3 days of fuel.

3)You said we cud ask india to vacate siachin? we transport supplies through air not from land route.we could bypass it easily.

4)Vajapayee threatened that we will open western border if pakistanis dint stop such non sense.(to clinton)


Point 5353 you are holding is on LOC not inside indian territory.

Your 300 soldiers got killed in one strike of LGB's by mirages.Now you can judge where your were standing.
if you blv mushy then best of luck.He is an liar and his books are filled with lies and have been exposed time to time.

He said he did coup coz nawaj was giving kashmir to india and FYI,mushy followed same policy with india when he became president.I mean policy of nawaj sharif .


and it was mushy who begged sharif to go clinton.


2 din ki supply thee fuel ki and soldiers upar baithy mar rahe they and you say we were winning and sharif bogged us down

 

[Rafi]

 

[bronxbull]

Musharraf tried a balssy move,did not work but a good attempt.

Just move on,folks.