The gun markets of Pakistan

[Hulk]

The gun markets of Pakistan - CNN.com

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Brooklyn, New York (VBS.TV) -- On January 22, 2006, the New York Times reported that all foreign journalists were being banned from Pakistan's tribal areas, which has been called "the most dangerous place in the world." A week before that, the CIA fired missiles remotely from a Predator aircraft into the Waziristan tribal area. They were hoping to eradicate a bunch of al Qaeda operatives. Instead, they killed 18 women and children.

One week before that, I arrived in Pakistan to visit Darra Adamkhel, the massive open-air market located deep in the tribal areas, where a frighteningly high percentage of Islamic holy warriors goes to buy their guns.

Gaining access to the tribal areas was next to impossible. It took months of pre-planning with the consul general of Pakistan in Montreal and top officials in Peshawar. They repeatedly denied us entry because, according to them, the Pakistani Army had too many "sensitive operations" going on in that region. Without my personal advantage (a family friendship with the governor of the Northwest Frontier Province), we never would have gotten in.

The government assigned me and my team a political agent named Naeem Afridi. He was born and raised in the tribal areas. He took care of us while we were there, and he was a godsend. You can't do anything in this part of the world without someone like Naeem.

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Our driver stopped at a security point just outside the town center, where we were introduced to the Frontier Agency militia, six angry-dad-looking guys with AKs and sidearms. They became our personal bodyguards, and followed us through the tight warren of gun shops and factories, barren little brick rooms where upward of 1,000 guns are manufactured every day. Most of the work is done by hand.

The vendors are Pashtuns, who are basically the toughest people in the world. They comprised the majority of the mujahideen who kicked the Soviets out of Afghanistan in the late '80s.

These days, the town is rumored to be completely overrun by the Taliban. They purchase the guns, then cross the border to fight the U.S. army in Afghanistan, or they drive through the mountains to the south to fight the Pakistani army.

This summer, I went back to Pakistan, and found that the fuse on this powder keg has become even shorter. The Pakistani army has surged more troops into the tribal areas, attempting to eradicate the Taliban and al Qaeda. The U.S. and British troops are attempting to do the same thing on the other side of the border in Afghanistan. Meanwhile, Pakistan itself has seen violence spread to its major urban centers, where extremists have been detonating bombs and taking over police stations.

But at the same time, there is a cultural explosion taking place, a vibrant art scene and metal and rock bands popping up everywhere. The whole situation has become ultra charged by the fact that there are tons of news channels operating uncensored by the insanely corrupt government.

For Pakistan, it's a volatile, turbulent, and fascinating moment in time.

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I am aware that we have seen multiple videos on this, but want to discuss how it impacts the war on terror as this news article mentioned that these guns are used by Taliban.
Why GOP cannot get the shops closed?

 

[TechLahore]

The gun markets of Pakistan - CNN.com


These days, the town is rumored to be completely overrun by the Taliban. They purchase the guns, then cross the border to fight the U.S. army in Afghanistan, or they drive through the mountains to the south to fight the Pakistani army.


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I am aware that we have seen multiple videos on this, but want to discuss how it impacts the war on terror as this news article mentioned that these guns are used by Taliban.
Why GOP cannot get the shops closed?

During Musharraf's time, many of these shops were closed and employment in POF (Pakistan Ordinance Factories) was offered to qualified small arms manufacturers. Many of them took the offer. Some of them continued to function. Either way, you have to understand that the small-arms manufacturing industry of Dara Adam Khel and other tribal areas has been functioning just fine since 1947 without causing any law and order problems for the rest of Pakistan. This enterprise was completely legal since Federal/Provincial law regarding licensed arms did not apply in FATA.

That said, the TTP are not getting their weapons from these small one-room operations. If they were, they would only be equipped with some unused weapons from the early 80s and locally manufactured small arms. Where are the frequency hopping/encryption/advanced tech radios coming from? These aren't being manufactured in Dara. What about the heavy weapons and the continuous supply of C4 and other explosives, none of which are manufactured in FATA? What about the rocket launchers used in the attack on the SL cricket team in Lahore? Those aren't manufactured in FATA either.

If the Taliban were simply fighting this war with the produce of these small shops in FATA, they would have been wiped out long ago. It is disingenuous to imply that the TTP are getting the arms to wage their terrorist campaign from inside Pakistan.

 

[Hulk]

During Musharraf's time, many of these shops were closed and employment in POF (Pakistan Ordinance Factories) was offered to qualified small arms manufacturers. Many of them took the offer. Some of them continued to function. Either way, you have to understand that the small-arms manufacturing industry of Dara Adam Khel and other tribal areas has been functioning just fine since 1947 without causing any law and order problems for the rest of Pakistan. This enterprise was completely legal since Federal/Provincial law regarding licensed arms did not apply in FATA.

That said, the TTP are not getting their weapons from these small one-room operations. If they were, they would only be equipped with some unused weapons from the early 80s and locally manufactured small arms. Where are the frequency hopping/encryption/advanced tech radios coming from? These aren't being manufactured in Dara. What about the heavy weapons and the continuous supply of C4 and other explosives, none of which are manufactured in FATA? What about the rocket launchers used in the attack on the SL cricket team in Lahore? Those aren't manufactured in FATA either.

If the Taliban were simply fighting this war with the produce of these small shops in FATA, they would have been wiped out long ago. It is disingenuous to imply that the TTP are getting the arms to wage their terrorist campaign from inside Pakistan.

Were we building AK 47 ever since beginning. I am fine with illegal market if it manufacture pistols only, but making automatic weapons is something different.

How do you control where the weapons go, I guess they are not buying to showcase them but most of this might be used somewhere, not only in Pakistan but outside too.

 

[TechLahore]

Were we building AK 47 ever since beginning. I am fine with illegal market if it manufacture pistols only, but making automatic weapons is something different.

How do you control where the weapons go, I guess they are not buying to showcase them but most of this might be used somewhere, not only in Pakistan but outside too.

Before the AK-47 they were making other semi-auto/auto weapons. The point is that them making the AK-47 or not doesn't make any difference at all to my statement above; that if it weren't for external sources of weapons, the TTP could not cause the damage it has.

And as for your second point, actually most people are buying them to 'showcase' them... There is a very famous saying in the frontier, "Bandook mard ka zevar hay" - A weapon is a man's jewelry. They carry weapons around, just as they carry their shawls and their prayer caps. Nothing strange or new about this. And because they carry weapons it doesn't mean they have a propensity to kill aimlessly. Unlicensed weapons are allowed in the US also, and if you pick up a magazine like Guns&Ammo you will find that hobbyists modify weapons and make their own ammo in their garages all over the country. No different.

Where the difference comes in is with the heavy weapons, radio sets, RDX, C4 and other crap that's being given to the TTP by external players.

 

[SMC]

The weapons besides the guns they have simply cannot be bought in black market in the quantities they have. We saw some pictures of their ammo. More sophisticated ammo in high numbers. It cannot be done without help from a state.

 

[S-2]

"It cannot be done without help from a state."

Actually, it can and too often is right today.

The illegal weapons dealers of the gulf states are among the most powerful in the world. Their networks are global. Those same networks that facilitate the shipping of weapons can easily serve to facilitate the smuggling of drugs.

Know where there's some dope that might be used to purchase weapons?

Can you think where I might meet a rich wahabbi/salafist interested in virtual jihad to do his bit and who could arrange a meeting or two?

Thanks.

 

[SMC]

TTP do not have access to drug money to support themselves. Afghan Taliban are not friends with them - they get no help from them in that regard.

 

[S-2]

"Afghan Taliban are not friends with them - they get no help from them in that regard."

My first thought is about the absolutist quality of your above comment. I offer the below link to mitigate. The oath of allegiance can be verified elsewhere if you're truly interested to do so. Whether it is a priority is a separate matter but the afghan taliban have ALWAYS been interested in the TTP as a potential resource and to provide a service indirectly to their Pakistani benefactors.

Even now there's serious reason to wonder what below-the-table support is being offered by the Haqqani network to those finding their way into NWA.

Raman's Pashtu Belt Database Jan.22, 2008

“Yes, we send and will send our boys into Afghanistan for jihad.”

"Can you think where I might meet a rich wahabbi/salafist interested in virtual jihad to do his bit and who could arrange a meeting or two?"

Secondly, the comment above remains unanswered and presumes that those in the gulf with salafist tendencies and money wouldn't find favor with the objectives of the TTP. I'm not as certain.

Nothing is so absolutely black and white as you paint matters, IMV.

Thanks.

 

[SMC]

What baithullah said was only as a way to get support and he never showed any intent to take TTP to Afghanistan. His main target was Pakistan and that policy has continued with TTP under Hakimullah. Sure, you might mention the CIA bombing, but that was an isolated incident. There's not much to speak of as far as TTP attacking non-Pakistani elements goes.

Also, it would be helpful if you know the demographics of where TTP come from.

 

[S-2]

I provide comments from those much closer than you. Links to their sourcing. You?

"What baithullah said was only as a way to get support and he never showed any intent to take TTP to Afghanistan"

Those are your words but, really, you don't know who has or hasn't crossed the border. Not from Canada and even being closer to home wouldn't help.

Match that, please, with the words B. Mehsud provided to al-Jazerra and his oath? Mehsud's words on this matter trump yours. Match that against Mehsud's own repeated journeys to assist the taliban's implementation of sharia in Afghanistan during the late 90s.

"Also, it would be helpful if you know the demographics of where TTP come from."

Smarmy and pedantic. I think I've long since proven I've some idea. OTOH, it would be even MORE helpful if you avoided allusion and built your argument on those demographics to which you refer so I'd at least have some idea why you believe that makes some difference.

If you're suggesting that the TTP are physically isolated from the Afghan border by virtue of the surrounding Wazirs, save it. I've given you, at every turn, cause to pause in your pronouncements but you insist on obstinence. Maybe it just bothers you that a yank might see more to it than the trite propaganda upon which you rely.

Your business but until you show more understanding of the possibilities and less absolute assuredness in your views from afar, you'll have lost my interest as a serious observer of this war.

Thanks.

 

[Hulk]

Before the AK-47 they were making other semi-auto/auto weapons. The point is that them making the AK-47 or not doesn't make any difference at all to my statement above; that if it weren't for external sources of weapons, the TTP could not cause the damage it has.

And as for your second point, actually most people are buying them to 'showcase' them... There is a very famous saying in the frontier, "Bandook mard ka zevar hay" - A weapon is a man's jewelry. They carry weapons around, just as they carry their shawls and their prayer caps. Nothing strange or new about this. And because they carry weapons it doesn't mean they have a propensity to kill aimlessly. Unlicensed weapons are allowed in the US also, and if you pick up a magazine like Guns&Ammo you will find that hobbyists modify weapons and make their own ammo in their garages all over the country. No different.

Where the difference comes in is with the heavy weapons, radio sets, RDX, C4 and other crap that's being given to the TTP by external players.

The Gun market in question is biggest in the world and what is the justification of allowing it to flourish. You saying that it is harmless does not make it harmless.

 

[SMC]

I provide comments from those much closer than you. Links to their sourcing. You?

You need to look at what Musharraf has said and the demographics of the area.

"What baithullah said was only as a way to get support and he never showed any intent to take TTP to Afghanistan"

Those are your words but, really, you don't know who has or hasn't crossed the border. Not from Canada and even being closer to home wouldn't help.

Match that, please, with the words B. Mehsud provided to al-Jazerra and his oath? Mehsud's words on this matter trump yours. Match that against Mehsud's own repeated journeys to assist the taliban's implementation of sharia in Afghanistan during the late 90s.

Can you quote any instance of him helping Afghan Taliban post- 9/11? Now yes I realize everything is not black and white but if he was involved in some attacks in Afghanistan then there would have been a video, audio tape or some sort admission of attacks from him, kind of like with Baitullah. You're pretty much hanging by a small string with arguments like Baitullah was consistently friends with Afghan Taliban and was helping them after US invasion. There's no evidence to prove my hypothesis or yours that he did in fact go to help Afghan Taliban. But there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to pretty much rule it out.

"Also, it would be helpful if you know the demographics of where TTP come from."

Smarmy and pedantic. I think I've long since proven I've some idea. OTOH, it would be even MORE helpful if you avoided allusion and built your argument on those demographics to which you refer so I'd at least have some idea why you believe that makes some difference.

If you're suggesting that the TTP are physically isolated from the Afghan border by virtue of the surrounding Wazirs, save it. I've given you, at every turn, cause to pause in your pronouncements but you insist on obstinence. Maybe it just bothers you that a yank might see more to it than the trite propaganda upon which you rely.

Your business but until you show more understanding of the possibilities and less absolute assuredness in your views from afar, you'll have lost my interest as a serious observer of this war.

Thanks.

No, it's not being about being isolated. But rather being enemies with Wazir tribe in the west and Hafiz Gul bahadur in the north. TTP was surrounded by these two groups, and TTP are enemies of both.

 

[TechLahore]

The Gun market in question is biggest in the world and what is the justification of allowing it to flourish. You saying that it is harmless does not make it harmless.

And you saying that it is contributing to the TTPs ability to wage terror campaigns in any meaningful way also does not make it so.

The largest gun market by what? Volume? Check your figures. While it might have the largest collection of gun shops, more small arms are on sale in academys and walmarts across the US than in FATA.

By the way, I am not criticising the right to bear arms. I am a believer that people should have the ability to own a weapon if they want and as long as they don't have a criminal record.

The biggest impact the TTP has is with C4, RDX, landmines, heavy weapons, secure radios. I am repeating myself for the third time now... these items are not produced in FATA.

 

[Fracker]

What a sh*t.

The prices hike of local made arms clearly shows what happen to all weapon industry at pakistan. I would call it BS, for now, as i am living at the area where there was used to be some armor industry.