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The German joke-F125-class frigate

Update :

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FGS Baden-Württemberg, the first of four German Navy F 125 frigates, was transferred from the Hamburg shipyard to her new port in the Wilhelmshaven navy base on July 18.

Eight ships had streamers flying topmast high to welcome the latest “family member” entering the base with manned rails and ship horn sounds.

Two 120-strong crews, Alpha and Bravo, will operate the frigate in the following months carrying out weapon- and sensor testing. 99 sailors of the Alpha crew had the special honor of witnessing the important day aboard the first-of-class F125 ship.

Captain at sea Michael Budde (Kapitän zur See is the highest senior officer rank in the German Navy), Commander of the 2nd Flotilla said the Baden Württemberg would now go to a “training camp” for testing and training before she is commissioned into the Navy mid-2017.

F 125 frigates are a new class of ships set to replace the eight Bremen-Class frigates currently in service of the German Navy.

Though classified as frigates, the four ships of the class are comparable to destroyers in size. They are being built by the ARGE F125 consortium which was awarded the contract to build a total of four F125 class ships for the German Navy in 2007.

The consortium is made up from ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems and the Friedrich Lürssen shipyard in Bremen, which is building the ships in cooperation with TKMS’ Blohm+Voss Shipyards in Hamburg.

According to the German Navy, the new frigates require only half the crew necessary to operate the Bremen-Class frigates. They will be able to stay at sea for up to 24 months and thereby reduce the transit times for the crews. The crews will swap in regular intervals directly in the areas of operations which means that the ships will have to make fewer port visits.

The navy has also developed an alternative crewing model for the F 122 frigates. Namely, the four ships will be operated by eight crews and the deployment duration for any of the crews should not exceed four months. The crews will count approximately 120 persons.

New sensor-weapon concepts are prepared for the enhanced flexibility and scalable control-options of the frigates. The Navy said that almost all weapons on board would be remotely controlled. Passive protection will also be enhanced by automatized surveillance systems.

These ships are the first ones to run the so-called CODLAG propulsion system. The system essentially consists of electric motors which will draw power from diesel generators. The new ships will carry four deployable boats and have two container spots on the middle deck.

Weaponry will consist of HARPOON and RAM missiles, one 127 mm machine gun, two 27 mm and five 12.7 mm guns. The 150-meter ships have a complement capacity of 190 persons and a maximum speed of 26 knots.
 
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it only lacks air defense imo , i think the egyptian navy has made a great deal getting three Gowind 2500 , 4 type 209 , 1 Fremm Frigate which is the best Frigate probably by now
RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) Block II will have 22.5km range (as opposed 9 km for Blocks 0 and I).

By comparison, the much larger semi-active radar homing RIM-7 Sea Sparrow presently employed on the F-122 Bremen class ships (Mk29 NSSM box-launcher) and the F-123 Bremen class (Mk41 VLS) ships has a range of 19km. Bremen class - like Dutch Kortenaer and Greek Elli classes - carry 8 ready + 8 manual reloads = 16 Sea Sparrow missiles, as do Brandenburg class. As Bremen class ships pay off, the Sea Sparrow will be replaced by the 50+km Rim-162 ESSM on the remaining Mk41 equipped ships of the Bundes marine.

By another comparison, VL Mica (as on Egyptian Gowind, which carries a total of 16:
Range max: 20 km
Altitude max: 9,200 m


Aster-15 as on Egypt's FREMM (16 rounds)
Range 30+ km
Altitude 13 km

Whereas F-125 has two 21-round launchers (42 ready missiles) ...
 
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F125 Frigates will probaby get ESSM BLK2 upgrade soon.

its no coincidence that the "fitnessroom" is located where the vls cells usually are

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F125 Frigates will probaby get ESSM BLK2 upgrade soon.

its no coincidence that the "fitnessroom" is located where the vls cells usually are

View attachment 395035
And wherefrom would they be launching these ESSM blk2? (hint: there is no VLS installed)
Possibly you are confusing with RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile block 2.
 
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Just install mk41 or mk56 vlc cells in the free space infront of the ram launcher

I bet we will soon hear from this upgrade as german goverment is currently trying to boost defence spending.
 
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Just install mk41 or mk56 vlc cells in the free space infront of the ram launcher

I bet we will soon hear from this upgrade as german goverment is currently trying to boost defence spending.
Yeah? Take a good look at the Brandenburg and Sachsen classes. Positioning of Mk41 and forward RAM.

F223-125.jpg


While ESSM missile is 3.66m long, the shortest MK41 VLS is the Mk41 self-defense, which is 5.3m deep. Tactical is 6.8m and strike is 7.7m. For Mk41 yoiu need at least 2 decks worth of depth and so the location of the fitness room therefore doesn't mean anything per se (since you don't know what's underneath it, and also unknown is what's in the space underneath RAM). Using Mk48 mod 2 would also require more than 1 deck. Using Mk48 mod 3 or Mk 57 modules (like the Danes employ) would leave the ESSM sticking out above deck, which interferes with the RAM launcher. So, one would look to swap places with the RAM launcher (but there is no gym underneath the RAM launcher). Not to mention that Bundesmarine relies exclusively on Mk41.

Also notice the (limite) width of the forward deckhousing, relative to Sachsen and Brandenburg classes. In terms of deck footprint, the 'gym area' could at best fit a single 8-cell Mk41 (32 ESSM) or a 6-cell Mk48/56 (12 ESSM), if any.
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OKkTUYU.jpg


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There are 12 countries that participate in the NATO Sea Sparrow Consortium (NSC) and the NATO Sea Sparrow Project Office (NSPO): Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denemark, Germany, Greece, Netherland, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Turkey and the US.
The Netherlands with five other NSC countries (Australia, Canada, Denemark, Norway and the US) participate in the development of ESSM Block II.
Because of their role in development, these six countries are first in line in the delivery of ESSM block II missiles. For these countries ESSM Block II will be available from 2020 on, while for third countries e.g. the other 6 NSC countries, this weaponsystem will become available starting 2028.
https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/kst-27830-110.html
(LETTER BY DEFENSE MINISTER To the President of the Lower House of the States-General,
The Hague, June 17, 2013)

In short, even if Germany opted for ESSM Block II, it wouldn't be getting any before 2028 i.e. 11 years from now at the earliest.
 
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German Navy’s new frigates have a listing problem: Report

FGS Baden-Württenberg entering Wilhelmshaven navy base, Germany. Photo: Bundeswehr/Dennis Kramer

German Navy’s new class of F125 frigates are overweight and keep listing to starboard, Reuters reported on May 12, quoting a confidential report.

Overall four frigates will be built by ThyssenKrupp and Luerssen with the first three already in water.

The lead ship in the class is wrapping up combat system trials and is set for a 2017 commissioning, while the second one recently completed the first set of builder’s trials.

According to the confidential annex to a regular German defense ministry report Reuters cited, the frigates are overweight and list 1.3 degrees to starboard.

German defense ministry did not confirm the report adding that the frigates remained on track “speaking in general terms”, according to Reuters.

The German Navy on multiple occasions shared videos of the FGS Baden-Württemberg, the lead ship in the class, but has never mentioned issues with the listing.

The four F125 frigates will replace the eight frigates of the F122-class, which will be gradually decommissioned. The ships were specifically designed for contemporary and future tasks of the German navy. The traditional duties of state-defense were broadened to encompass conflict prevention, crisis response as well as international intervention and stabilization operations.

By the end of the decade, the four ships will be operated by a total of eight crews with a total of 120 personnel each. The German Navy refers to this as the multiple-crew model where the eight crews will be operating as a closed team on a rotation principle.

The frigates are comparable to destroyers in size and are, with a length of 149 meters and a displacement of 7000 tonnes, the biggest operational ships in the German Navy.


https://navaltoday.com/2017/05/14/german-navys-new-frigates-have-a-listing-problem-report/
 
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I've just checked the new frigates scheduled to enter the German's Navy inventory from 2016.You've got to be kidding me ....a 7200 tonnes frigate (almost a destroyer) armed for AAW with only 2 RAM's....and that's it ! At a cost (which can escalate ) of 650 million euros each.

F125-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WTF ? French Gowind corvettes are better armed than those 7200 tonnes hunks of junk.What a waste of money...
As far as i know, Germans are not idiots, They must have many hidden treasures in secret compartments in this baby and they don't want it to show it to the public. Even if we common people says it is waste of money then they are the pro. So i very high doubt about this release or leak specification
 
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Really guys, you should look into what the Germans intend this ship to do. This is not a ship for conventional warfare but one for dealing with overseas committments i.e. extended out of area anti-piracy and asymmetrical warfare ops.
You keep trying to push it into a conventional framwork, whereas this ship is actually quite innovative, esp. when it comes to manning and maintencanse concepts. This should not be compared to F1224 Sachsen etc. It's more like Danmarks Absalon, except that the Danes expect Absalon class to complement Huitfeldt frigates and also be usable as 'normal' frigate.

There will be not MLU with VLSs magically appearing. Anything like ESSM or SM2 would required modified radar fit in given apparent topweight issues 'as is', the becomes even more unlikely now.

German Navy’s new class of F125 frigates are overweight and keep listing to starboard, Reuters reported on May 12, quoting a confidential report.

According to the confidential annex to a regular German defense ministry report Reuters cited, the frigates are overweight and list 1.3 degrees to starboard.
Overweight? How?
Why listing to port (rather than starboard)?
All vessels (i.e. by design) or just the first vessel (i.e. anomaly)
It is in actuality a problem?

Can you tell?
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A defense ministry spokeswoman declined to comment on the confidential report, but said "in general terms" that the development of the four ships, the first of which was to have been delivered in 2014, remained on track.

"The design and performance parameters will be met," she said, adding that a certain degree of listing could never be ruled out when building new ships. "In the case of the F125, appropriate counter-measures have been agreed with industry."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-security-frigates-idUSKBN18827E

Die neue deutsche Fregatte F125 liege schief im Wasser, heißt es im vertraulichen Teil des Rüstungsberichts des Verteidigungsministeriums vom April, der Reuters am Freitag vorlag. Bei einer Untersuchung im Januar sei eine Vorkrängung von 1,3 Grad nach Steuerbord festgestellt worden. Maßnahmen zur Beseitigung der Schieflage würden derzeit mit der Industrie abgestimmt. Außerdem ist das von ThyssenKrupp und Lürssen gebaute Schiff offenbar weiter zu schwer. Einer Auswertung vom September 2016 zufolge überschritt die Fregatte das vertraglich vereinbarte Gewicht um 178 Tonnen. Es bestehe das Risiko, dass bei weiterem Anstieg des Leergewichts die übrigen Planungen für das Schiff beeinträchtigt würden.

Bleibt es bei dem aktuellen Gewicht, dürfte dies auch die Verbrauchs- und Betriebskosten erhöhen.
http://de.reuters.com/article/deutschland-r-stung-fregatte-idDEKBN1881WG
The 1.3 degree starboard list and 178 tons excess weight, which emerged during testing in September [2016] or January [2017], means the ship is now close to the limit of its design parameters (which hampers future upgrades/changes since now apparently only 12.5 tons reserve left) and it will raise the class's lifetime fuel and operating and maintenance costs by around 20 million euros.
 
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Interestingly, the German word " Vorkrängung" that Reuters used. "Krängung" means heeling, but what exactly is "Vorkrängung"?
 
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