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The dragon gets a bear hug

LOOK at Hezbollah War recently about the isRAEL BEST IN THEWORLD "JUNK" and LOOK AT RUSSIAN JUNK IN SYRIA best in the world they have more advanced sams then you and israel Bombed them You indians LIve in the Fantasy WORLD, ONLY SH1ty countries Operate RUSSIAN hardware either they are pooor or they cannot get others because of Sancations or They are HOODwinked THEy even SUspended their MIg29s while you kept them Operating

When ever china Buys something from them it modifies it so it wont crap out when needed the most
What ever Dude their how many Brahmouse have you fielded LCa have You fielded or Super Cheetah Chopper have you fielded that were indegnious with the help of russians and ISraelis
 
We are not buying weapons from Russia, why you guys believe everything Russians told you?

No wonder they can make Vikramaditya a trap for you to fall in. :coffee:

We didnt have any option then and desperately wanted a Carrier. Now we are are trapped with them. No one in the world, even today will give you a carrier for 2.5 Billion and for that cost there will be implications.

However why you see we are bulding our own ones and not depending on them any more.
 
We didnt have any option then and desperately wanted a Carrier. Now we are are trapped with them. No one in the world, even today will give you a carrier for 2.5 Billion and for that cost there will be implications.

However why you see we are bulding our own ones and not depending on them any more.

That thing will eventually cost you as much as a Nimitz carrier, next time be wisely when dealing with the Russians. :coffee:
 
That thing will eventually cost you as much as a Nimitz carrier, next time be wisely when dealing with the Russians. :coffee:

I get what you are saying and god's grace this is understood in indian military establishment.
We are now careful while dealing with them and you can see their reactions in recent Aero India.
 
We didnt have any option then and desperately wanted a Carrier. Now we are are trapped with them. No one in the world, even today will give you a carrier for 2.5 Billion and for that cost there will be implications.

However why you see we are bulding our own ones and not depending on them any more.

There's some sort of line about never underestimating the other guys greed, anyway, if it's too good to be true, it's...
 
Russia try hard to tell India: if you don't buy from us, we will sell to China. Don't worry my Indian fellow friends, T50 is far superior than Su35.
 
This seems to be another article for scaring India into buying more hardware. Not gonna work.
 
There's some sort of line about never underestimating the other guys greed, anyway, if it's too good to be true, it's...

It is, and thats precisely why we are moving away from a buyer seller relationship to a partnered one. The first one is FGFA, though how little the contributions are. But in the next one like MRTA we are contributing more, from design to manufacturing.

So yes, the mind set has shifted.
 
Russia try hard to tell India: if you don't buy from us, we will sell to China. Don't worry my Indian fellow friends, T50 is far superior than Su35.

artical says deal inked in jan not in future
 
Russia is resuming the supply of
advanced weapon platforms to
China in a move that may have
implications for India.
At the end of last year, Russia
concluded a framework agreement
with China for the sale of four
Amur-1650 diesel submarines. In
January it signed another
intergovernmental agreement for
the supply of Russia’s latest Su-35
long-range fighter planes.
If the deals go through, it will be for
the first time in a decade that Russia
has delivered offensive weapons to
China.
It will also mark the first time that
Russia has supplied China with more
powerful weapon platforms
compared with Russian-built
systems India has in its arsenals. In
the past, the opposite was the rule.
For example, the Su-30MKK jet
fighters Russia sold to China were no
match for the Su-30MKIs supplied to
India at about the same time. The
Chinese planes had an inferior radar
and without the thrust vectoring
engines the Indian version had.
This time the situation looks
reversed. The Amur-1650 submarine
is far more silent and powerful than
the Kilo-class submarines the Indian
Navy has in its inventory. India’s
Su-30MKI will be no match for China’s
Su-35 which is powered by a higher
thrust engine and boasts a more
sophisticated radar, avionics and
weapons, according to a leading
Russian military expert, Konstantin
Makienko.
China’s acquisition of the Su-35 will
also question the wisdom of India’s
plan to buy the French Rafale, the
expert said.
“The sale of Su-35s to China will
shoot down the value of the Rafale
for India,” Mr. Makienko, who is
deputy head of Russia’s top defence
think tank, Centre for Analysis of
Strategies and Technologies, toldThe
Hindu.
“The Rafale will stand no chance
against China’s Su-35,” the expert
explained. “The Su-35’s Irbis radar
has more than twice the detection
range of the Rafale’s Thales RBE2,
and will lock onto its target well
before the Russian plane becomes
visible for a retaliatory strike. The
117S engines of the Su-35 are also far
more powerful than the Rafale’s
Snecma M88.”
The Russian Air Force is just
beginning to take delivery of the
new aircraft and China may become
the first country to import it. The
relatively small number of Su-35s
China plans to buy, 24, should not
deceive anyone, Mr. Makienko said.
China followed the same buying
pattern for the Su-27, initially
ordering 24 planes and ending up
with more than 200 Su-27s and its
licence-built version, the J-11.
The supply to China of more
advanced weapon platforms than
those available to India appears to
contradict some basic geopolitical
realities. India remains Russia’s most
trusted partner whose defence
requirements have never been
refused. By contrast, Russia has
always been apprehensive of the
Chinese dragon and suspicious of its
intentions towards resource-rich and
population-poor Siberia.
CALLS FOR RESTRAINT
There is consensus in the Russian
strategic community that Moscow
should exercise maximum restraint
in providing China with advanced
military technologies. Experts were
shocked to find out that Chinese
engineers had mastered the
production of clones of most
weapon systems cash-strapped
Russia supplied to China in the 1990s
and early 2000s.
Russian arms sales to China
plummeted in recent years as China
switched to domestic production,
while Moscow became more
cautious in offering Beijing cutting-
edge technologies. Not only did
China illegally copy Russian weapon
systems, but it also began to export
those undercutting Russian sales of
higher-priced original platforms.
Some experts even called for a
complete halt to arms sales to China,
arguing that demographic pressures
and a growing need of resources
may one day push China to turn
Russian weapons against Russia.
“We should stop selling them the
rope to hang us with,” warned
Alexander Khramchikhin of the
Institute for Political and Military
Analysis.
However, the risks of selling
advanced weapons to China took a
back seat in Moscow’s calculations
after Vladimir Putin returned to the
Kremlin for a third term a year ago.
Last year, Russia’s state arms
exporter, Rosoboronexport, signed
contracts with China worth $2.1-
billion, the company’s head Anatoly
Isaikin said recently. The renewal of
sophisticated weapon supplies to
China should be seen in the context
of geopolitical games in the China-
U.S.-Russia triangle.
“The balance of power between
America and China will to a large
extend depend on whether and on
which side Russia will play,” said
Fyodor Lukyanov, foreign policy
analyst.
Russia and China are revitalising
defence ties at a time when their
relations with the U.S. have run into
rough waters. Moscow is deeply
disappointed with Mr. Obama’s
policy of “reset,” which is seen in
Moscow as a U.S. instrument of
winning unilateral concessions from
Russia, while Beijing views Mr.
Obama’s strategic redeployment in
the Asia-Pacific region as aimed at
containing China.
PROFIT MOTIVES
Russian defence sales to China are
also driven by profit motives as
arms manufacturers seek to
compensate for the recent loss of
several lucrative contracts in India,
where they face growing
competition from the U.S., Europe
and Israel. Also, Moscow seems to be
less concerned today about the so-
called “reverse engineering” of
Russian weapons in China as the
ability of the Chinese industry to
copy critical technologies appears to
have been overrated.
“China’s programme of developing
the J-11B family of aircraft based on
the Su-27 platform has run into
problems,” said Vasily Kashin, expert
on China. “China’s aircraft engines,
which are essentially modified
version of Russian engines, are way
too inferior to the originals and
China continues to depend on the
supply of Russian engines.”
In the past three-four years, China
has bought over 1,000 aircraft
engines from Russia and is expected
to place more orders in coming
years.
“When and if China succeeds in
copying Russia’s new weapon
platforms the Russian industry will
hopefully move ahead with new
technologies,” Mr. Kashin said.
India can also easily offset the
advantage that new Russian arms
supplies may give China, experts
said.
“To retain its edge in military
aviation, India needs to speed up the
development of a 5th-generation
fighter plane with Russia and go for
in-depth upgrade of its fleet of
Su-30MKI fighters,” Mr. Makienko
said.
TRADE DIFFERENCES
However, the resumption of massive
Russian arms supplies to China could
still be a cause for concern in India.
Closer defence ties between Moscow
and Beijing are an offshoot of strong
dynamics of their overall relations.
China is Russia’s top commercial
partner, with bilateral trade
expected to touch $90 billion this
year and soar to $200 billion by
2020. Mr. Putin has described China’s
rise as “a chance to catch the Chinese
wind in the sails of our economy.”
This contrasts with sluggish trade
between India and Russia, which
stood at $11 billion last year; even
the target of $20 billion the two
governments set for 2015 falls short
on ambition. India risks being
eclipsed by China on the Russian
radar screens. As Russia’s top
business daily Kommersant noted
recently, even today, Russian officials
from top to bottom tend to look at
India with “drowsy apathy,” while
Mr. Putin’s visit to India last year was
long on “meaningless protocol” and
short on time and substance.
 
yeA I heard they are going to have them in aksai chin with Nuclear cruise missles and stuff
and also they are going to have about 300 of them in that region close to india
 
afterall chinese weapon technology not that advanced as they claim!! who knew!
 
Oh goshhhhhh was it really necessary to post this nonsense??? And AFAIK you even changed the title.
Besides, this has been posted, kindly use the search option!

And OT: What kind of fool wrote this article????

1.Russia and China have good relations, China has enough money and Russia can sell it if they want to. Simple business.

2. Russia sells its latest Amur class subs to China which are far more superior to India`s Kilo class subs. Thats correct, but the author did not even mention that these subs are also offered to India in the P 75 tender.

There is no need for India to worry much about this.

1. Two large scale customers are better than one.
2. China has managed to become almost completely self reliant on defense supplies, while India not. Thus we still need Russia more than any one else and Russia still remains our best and timetested ally.
 
russians are smart businessmen. they know once Chinese buy some weapons from them, Indians would prepare dollars for better ones in no time.
 

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