Too much BS to wade through. Picking some up while letting rest of the poop to float.
Lots more BS. The definition posted was open source, not contrived by me.
That’s why it is called
re-definition. You first posted ‘definition’ of genocide and then
re-defined it how it should be applicable in case of Bangladesh viz. ethnic cleansing. The truth is that the definition encompasses other factors, and massacres by PA fall in those categories, viz. extermination of political class and minority Hindus.
The separatists massacred over a hundred thousand innocent men, women and children in less than a month leading to Op. Searchlight. This was more than a law and order situation, a state of war in fact given that a hostile external entity was supporting these people and mass murders and terrorism was being committed by them, and the GoP was absolutely correct in enforcing the writ of the State and its integrity by eliminating those who actively committed those atrocities and those who supported them. In the eyes of the Pakistani State (and any State for that matter) those who committed the atrocities, and those who supported them, were terrorists, barbarians and traitors being sponsored by an external entity.
We are still waiting for evidence of massacre of ‘over a hundred thousand innocent men, women and children in less than a month leading to Op. Searchlight’. The Supplementary HRC report only mentions of deaths during the entire period till December. So does, R.L.Rummel. Meanwhile, a casual look at the White Paper issued by Pakistan reveals something else.
Below I have put together a small list of death toll from 1 March to 25 March, as claimed by GoP in its White Paper, together with the place of tragedy. If dates are missing it means that no death was reported on that day. Also, (+) indicates separate incident.
1 March, 1971 =>
6 killed; Dhaka, Mob attack on Army (+)
1 killed; Army trying to defend a local TV station
3 March, 1971 =>
5 killed, 62 wounded; Dhaka (+)
1 killed, 9 injured; Jessore. Guards opened fire on mob to protect Telephone Exchange
4 March, 1971 =>
300 killed; Wireless Colony, Chittagong
5 March, 1971 =>
57 killed; Khulna
6 March, 1971 =>
7 Killed; Dhaka. Police opened fire on escaping prisoners (+)
1 killed, 7 injured; Khulna. Shopkeepers opened fire on looters.
12 March, 1971 =>
2 killed, 18 injured. Police opened fire on escaping prisoners.
19 March, 1971 =>
2 killed, 5 injured. Troops opened fire.
25 March, 1971 =>
3 killed, 17 injured; Saidpur (+)
1 killed, 1 injured; Saidpur.
So from 1st March to 25th March total number of deaths, according to GoP, was
384. If deaths due to police firing is excluded, then the number of deaths amounts to
367. Excluding the Chittagong incident, total death amounts to
67. The death tolls include East Bengalis as well. No rape figures given, although reported only on 4rth.
Another puzzle that you may want to explain is, why did PA withdraw to barracks on 3rd March, 1971 and stayed there till the midnight of 25th March, 1971 when, if you are to be believed, the situation was as grave as ‘100,000 massacres and rapes of non-Bengalis’ would suggest?
And RJ Rummel's source for making the above assertions? Are there any documents or recorded conversations amongst the Pakistani generals in the Pakistani archives that support the allegations he has made? Or is this just his 'opinion' reflecting popular bias and mythology?
Recorded comments of key players not only in press but also in their memoirs, Newspaper reports of the times, research work done by numerous historians and journalists.
He gives a long list of references at the end of each chapter.
Rummel's figures and work are nothing but statistical cherry picking. He has done no original work or research. If you have actually bothered to read through the chapter on Pakistan, all he does is take figures from various (often Indian or Bangladeshi) sources and complies a 'mean' as his result. In his own words:
"Beneath the consolidated overall toll I show my calculation from the partial estimates (line 81). These are rather close. Consolidating both ranges, I give a final estimate of Pakistan's democide to be 300,000 to 3,000,000, or a prudent 1,500,000 (line 82). "
His 'research' involves taking an average of the wildly contradictory figures estimated by various authors to come up with a 'prudent' estimate. The reported figures vary from 28,000 t0 3 million. Why should I not accept the HRC report and its conclusions on how many were killed given that its conclusions were far more researched than anything else I have seen.
Poppycock is what it is. He has no idea and the wildly differing figures form the various sources he uses indicate that very few others do either. Hence my argument that without an independent and neutral commission to properly investigate these deaths these assertions are nothing but BS thrown out to support one particular view point.
Au contraire , R.J.Rummel does an excellent job. Instead of relying on one source, like your HRC did with Qutubuddin Aziz, he has collated a wide range of research work by reputed and reliable scholars. Among others, it includes extensive research work by Richard Sisson, Leo E. Rose, Anthony Mascarenhas, Robert Payne, Nicole Ball, Milton Leitenberg etc and more importantly GoP’s White Paper.
The figure has been backed up through the HRC report. Read the quoted portion again:
5. However, recently, a renowned journalist of high-standing, Mr. Qutubuddin Aziz, has taken pains to marshal the evidence in a publication called "Blood and Tears." The book contains the harrowing tales of inhuman crimes committed on the helpless Biharis, West Pakistanis and patriotic Bengalis living in East Pakistan during that period. According to various estimates mentioned by Mr. Qutubuddin Aziz, between 100,000 and 500,000 persons were slaughtered during this period by the Awami League militants.
6. As far as we can judge, Mr Qutubuddin Aziz has made use of authentic personal accounts furnished by the repatriates whose families, have actually suffered at the hands of the Awami League militants. He has also extensively referred to the contemporary accounts of foreign correspondents then stationed in East Pakistan. The plight of the non-Bengali elements still living in Bangladesh and the insistence of that Government on their large-scale repatriation to Pakistan, are factors which appear to confirm the correctness of the allegations made against the Awami League in this behalf.
That is far more thorough an investigation and analysis of events than what RJ Rummel has done.
500,000 massacred at the high end (by the way, the 150,000 massacred by Bengali militants is also referenced by RJ Rummel in that chapter on Pakistan).
And the HRC has also been a damning indictment of the military and has recorded atrocities committed by some in the military. I am not contesting that atrocities were committed, but there remains no evidence that they were on the scale alleged, and the 28,000 - 50,000 dead is a plausible number barring an independent and neutral investigation.
[...]
The HRC methodology for its conclusions involves more research and proper evidence than one chapter of Rummel's statistical skulduggery.
Relying on a single book by a Pakistani author, whose objectivity and authenticity of work remains unverified, doesn’t make ‘investigation and analysis of events’ in any way ‘thorough’. Far, far from it. It only reveals the utmost callousness and the severe lack of sincerity on the part of HRC. It only makes HRC report a farce which is not even worth the paper it is typed on.
In any case the figure of 100,000 to 500,000 relates to the entire period of conflict and includes casualties of war in December.
As with the figure of 28,000 to 50,000 Bengali deaths, well, the first few days of crackdown saw death to the tune of, conservatively speaking, 15,000; Hariharpur death camp alone is estimated at 20,000 lives. Anyway, keep telling that fairy-tale to yourself.
Also, you don’t have qualms in accepting Pakistani witnesses, and authors, as truth and unbiased while rejecting all other witnesses as either ‘anecdotal’ or ‘propaganda’.
On another note, that thing that you are peddling as HRC Report, is actually Supplementary HRC Report, and only Bhutto and HR know how much of it contains the true contents of the original Report. The authenticity of that Supplementary HRC Report is very much a suspect.
Please, your lies, denial and dishonesty are getting tiresome, especially when your own source refers to the '150,000 non-Bengalis massacred by Bengalis'.
"I can now put together the various estimates of the Bengali--Awami League--democide (lines 162 to 166). Consolidating these, I get a range of 50,000 to 500,000 killed, more likely 150,000. "
Happy now? This is your own Rummel using his statistical skulduggery to come up with the numbers of non-Bengalis killed, which incidentally matches the figures of the HRC report.
I am more than happy with R.J.Rummel’s work. Thank you very much.
And the PA did react, it reacted to terrorism on the scale that even the Taliban have not managed to perpetrate yet. Terrorism supported and encouraged by India.
Identifying the homes of supporters of terrorists who massacred 150,000 innocent men, women and children does reveal plan - a plan to take those murderers to task.
The manner of killing collaborators (just because they were academics and intellectuals does not mean they should not have faced the firing squad for treason) suggests plan - a plan to punish traitors and supporters of terrorism.
Apparently summary killings without trial, without giving the accused an opportunity to defend are acceptable.
Anyway, your entire rebuttal, or shall we say justification for PA’s genocide, rests on very thin ice of ‘150,000+ innocents killed in the run up to the crack down’. Till you provide concrete evidence, preferably from independent neutral sources, your ‘poppycock’ continues to be what it is – ‘poppycock’.
As for 'death camps' your use of inaccurate inflammatory rhetoric such as 'death camps' indicates the degree of your dishonesty and the degree to which you are willing to lie and distort history to serve your malicious agenda.
What would Hariharpur qualify as, where, men and women were brought in trucks from as far as
8 miles, then kept imprisoned in a building, and then shot dead, and then their bodies allowed to float away with tide.
Yahya's comment was reported by one journalist and more than likely was nothing more than rhetoric. A passing comment in an interview (that may or may not be accurately reported) does not establish intent to actually kill, and the controversy has been covered in other works that dismiss it. Keep clinging onto such tripe though, if it helps sustain your xenophobic hatred of West Pakistanis.
First, prove that it was 'inaccurate' reporting or a mere 'passing comment'. Till then it stands.
Second, Yahya, and Bhutto, had made some more comments that will embarrass you even more. Lets not get there.
Yes, accounting for 'most' of the dead bodies, accounts from multiple sources such as the villagers (there are surely more than one) who witnessed these acts, the coming forward of victims and relatives of victims and others (which resulted in extremely low numbers). All you have done is provide isolated anecdotal accounts which, even if all true, do not in any way add up to the numbers dead that are being claimed.
‘Most’ dead bodies couldn’t possibly be accounted for because ‘most’ of them were dumped in rivers so that the bodies would be carried away into the sea and thus completely lost, or result in quick decay while the rest were buried in secret mass graves, which are being discovered even 20-30 years after the incidents. ‘Majority’ of the bodies which couldn’t be disposed off quickly, was indeed discovered and they do point to the overwhelming number of deaths. These atrocious acts of genocide are corroborated by numerous eyewitnesses, some of whom were Europeans and Americans either on vacation or in employment, and not just one or two letters to the editor – although there were some. These Europeans and American eyewitnesses also gave deposition to International Commission of Jurists, who due to unfortunate circumstances couldn’t come down to Bangladesh and examine Bangladeshi witnesses and complete their investigations. (Pakistan had already disassociated itself from any such investigation.)
Then there are eyewitness accounts of number of foreign press reporters. Before the crack down of 25th March, these reporters were ‘forcibly confined’ to a hotel. But a couple of intrepid journalists managed to escape and one of them was Simon Dring of
The Daily Telegraph. He roamed the city during the first few days of mayhem and later reported from Bangkok, on 30th March, 1971. It made front page news. An excerpt.
‘
In the name of "God and a united Pakistan", Dacca is today a crushed and frightened city. After 24 hours of ruthless, cold-blooded shelling by the Pakistan Army, as many as 7,000 people are dead, large areas have been leveled and East Pakistan's fight for independence has been brutally put to an end. [...] Even so people are still being shot at the slightest provocation, and buildings are still being indiscriminately destroyed. [...] It is impossible accurately to assess what all this has so far cost in terms of innocent human lives. But reports beginning to filter in from the outlying areas, Chittagong, Comilla and Jessore put the figure, including Dacca, in the region of 15,000 dead. Only the horror of the military action can be properly gauged - the students dead in their beds, the butchers in the markets killed behind their stalls, the women and children roasted alive in their houses, the Pakistanis of Hindu religion taken out and shot en masse, the bazaars and shopping areas razed by fire and the Pakistani flag that now flies over every building in capital.’
Questioning the number of victims coming forward to claim compensation, the usual cheep shot by the genocide deniers, is just another attempt at deflection. The number of rape victims that claimed compensation is low because of social reasons. Dr Geoffrey Davis, an Australian doctor, visited Bangladesh 1972 to rehabilitate these sexually molested women. He helped not only in abortion but treated numerous cases of venereal diseases, contracted primarily while attempting traditional methods of abortion. He quotes a mind boggling figure of, and I even hesitate to type, 400,000 sexual molestation cases.
Thanks - love debunking Indian lies and propaganda by manufacturing my own lies and propaganda.
There, completed it for you.
.Did you upload it just now?Are there more reports like these?
