The American people

[BATMAN]

To be honest, when you say "Muslims practicing openly and freely", I'm pretty much against it too when it comes to organized mass open door prayer gatherings in public places. I suppose a little private individual prayer is alright in public, but sometimes in western countries you occasionally get 100 people invading public places and praying in unison. You get group gatherings of Hari Krishan devotees, and other religions doing that sort of stuff.Very annoying, wouldn't mind seeing them banned. Do I sound pro French?

You are right and have the courage to talk about it.
I second you.

It is not necessary to pray 5 times we can combine our prays in special circumstances and offer only farz rakats.
Living in non-Islamic state or in travel is a special circumstance.
We should never make a show out of our prayers, which is infect rejected by Allah ST.
In order to enjoy the liberty and treat of large groups one should go to Mosque or Islamic state.

If 4 marriages are allowed to Taliban and leaders of al-qaeeda than what is harm in using other permissible things? Is there a difference?

We must not make Islam reason of comfort for our selves and hard for others.
This will never work, such attitude has already done immnense damge to Islam by dividing it in many sects and sub-sects.

 

[dr.umer]

Practicing Islam requires a muslim Government? if yes, then Al-Qaida and taliban are quite correct in their assertion that it is not Pakistan but NaPak-istan, is this not so, after all the Pakistani government wages war against those who seek to "implement" Islam in Pakistan does it not? And what of Saudi Arabia, is it not also part of dar ul kufr because it too wages war against those who seek to "implement Islam? and does the same not apply to Iran?

Is any place safe from those who seek to "implement Islam" while enjoying the benefits of living in a West that does not have the best interests of Muslims at heart?

Sir, practicing Islam doesn't requires a Muslim govt ALWAYS but can non muslim govt's of west be called to establish a Dar-ul-Islam? As already mentioned that Dar-ul-Islam is difficult to define. If it's a full implementation of Sharia then no country in the world fits into that defination.

Also, i failed to understand why you brought Al-Qaeda and Taliban into this discussion. Did i support their version of Islam? Did i say anything regarding that? I don't think so. Why it always crosses your mind that Islamic Govt means Taliban or Al-Qaeda. Killing innocent people and they will want Islamic Govt? Crap. Now you are not being fair. Think in bit larger perspective.

What would you call Govt of Saudia Arabia? A non-islamic one? No. But if asked which Govt would provide better opportunities to practice Islam, US, Canada, UK or Saudia Arabia. What would be your answer? Off course Saudia Arabia. My point is leave the discussion that US is Dar-ul-Islam or not. We don't know defination yet & we are writing thesis on subject.

My point was the provision of opportunities to practice Islam in Muslim countries are more than Non Muslim countries. I live in West, i can offer my prayers well without any objection so i will call it a muslim friendly nation. But i will not exaggrate myself by saying that it's Dar-ul-Islam because i don't know the exact defination yet.

I think you are not being fair if you are implying the above.

I think i made myself clear & I think i am being fair if still living in west.

 

[U-571]

You are right and have the courage to talk about it.
I second you.

It is not necessary to pray 5 times we can combine our prays in special circumstances and offer only farz rakats.
Living in non-Islamic state or in travel is a special circumstance.
We should never make a show out of our prayers, which is infect rejected by Allah ST.

If 4 marriages are allowed to Taliban and leaders of al-qaeeda than what is harm in using other permissible things? Is there a difference?

We must not make Islam reason of comfort for our selves and hard for others.
This will never work, such attitude has already done immnense damge to Islam by dividing it in many sects and sub-sects.

islam doesnt allow show off, thus muslims in the west shuld do the "best", within the boundary to promote islam,when u r in a non-muslim country surely u cant manage things u manage in muslim dominion.islam doesnt allow to leave ur necessities and engage in prayers, noop, islam is not the religion of convulsion, but it doeant mean u forget allah in ur worldly affairs, dont let the worldy affair get over u so u forget allah and his din, when some things r farz in islam, u have to do it by will or by force of ur determination.

[/quote]In order to enjoy the liberty and treat of large groups one should go to Mosque or Islamic state.[/quote]

it doesnt mean if non-muslim states ban certain things tht muslims r obliged to follow it in islam, u follow suit and dont agitate on tht matter, its prime obligation of muslims to demand for their "total living" according to islamic principles, and raise agitation if u r forced not to do it, its ur right!!

 

[U-571]

I suppose a little private individual prayer is alright in public, but sometimes in western countries you occasionally get 100 people invading public places and praying in unison.

in one sense RR u r right, islam doesnt allow show off of ur faith, it dont get ur point fully bc i havent experienced ppl gathering in public places and offering prayers to be honest, its simply kinda wierd.

in islam, prayers in gatherings of mosques is obligatory for sure, but if u r busy some where cannot manage ur prayers in a mosque so pray alone when u get tym, tht no prob, its totally legal in islam!!!

the thing is these Mullah elements r the top priority ones which i hate the most, they make islam seem like a gloomy terrible thing to follow, they produce the bad image of islam, there is no strictness in islam, ONLY THE THING IS:

"while u r busy in ur duties, dont forget allah, dont forget islam"

its ur deed, ur devotion, ur faith, tht counts

 

[muse]

Dr. umer

I apologise if I misunderstood your earlier post. My issue is with this "implementation of Islam" business - there is nothing in islam that requires "implementation" - ofcourse the will of certain political and terrorist forces that abuse and misuse islam, does require "implementation".

dar Ul islam difficult to define? Perhaps, but can we not begin by agreeing that we witness all manner of vice, immorality, inequality and injustice in countries that have a Muslim majority poulation and are governed by muslims?

If we can agree to this can we must say that it is qualities and values that must define dar ul Islam.

You say "My point was the provision of opportunities to practice Islam in Muslim countries are more than Non Muslim countries"

How so? If we are agreed that muslim societies are deficient in upholding the values that Muslim agree inform islam, such as justice, fairness, decency - how then can we agree that muslim countries provide more opportunities to practice islam?

 

[786/92.]

That is the same case with Hinduism, and probably all other religions.

You say it is Hinduism. Others say it is Christianity etc. etc.

Whatever you say, they are just names…!!! Basically you are practicing Islam when you do something good. You can’t escape nature; neither can you create a parallel one.

Secondly, Veda says worship one god. Bible says worship one god; all the scriptures say worship one god. One natural God…
Holly Koran is the last and final revelation of the message brought by Veda, by Torah and Bible.

You will have to leave these names and accept one name i.e. ‘Islam’.

 

[786/92.]

My point is leave the discussion that US is Dar-ul-Islam or not. We don't know defination yet & we are writing thesis on subject.

I have qouted this definition.

a land where one can practice Islam openly and freely is Daar ul Islam.

These'r not my words or any xyz. This definition is given by Mufti-e-Azam Pakistan Mufti Muneeb ur Rehman.

Contact his Daar ul Ifta Qtv, D-120 SITE Karachi Pakistan.

Here is the hot line No. 0212572162 for within Pakistan

------------------------09050566786 for outsides

You can have access any time ok.

 

[waraich66]

What the hell what more of Islam you want to implement in Saudi and Iran?
What kind of Islam would teach to burn girls school, kill civilians in sucide acts?

Both coutries dont fullfill shariah law completely.

In iran mata one night marriage is allowed which haram as per sunni sect.

and kingdom is also prohibited in islam.

Afghanistan under talaban control was true muslim state.

Inshahallah it will be restored.