What's new

That Time a Defense Contractor Wanted to Load Up 747s With ICBMs

Vergennes

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
8,576
Reaction score
61
Country
France
Location
France
It's kind of an insane idea. Or maybe not.

landscape-1470337081-us07540227-20090602-d00006-1.png



An interesting concept for America's nuclear deterrent recently emerged on the Internet. A former employee for a US defense contractor describes an idea to launch intercontinental ballistic missiles from midair…using a civilian jetliner. The idea was ultimately shelved, but is reminiscent of a current DoD program for conventional weapons.

According to the post on The Unwanted Blog the author, was an employee for Orbital ATK, a San Jose-based defense contractor specializing in rockets and missiles. The author came across some Powerpoint presentations of a concept developed with another defense contractor, BAE, for turning a 747 into a nuclear missile carrier.

The concept isn't exactly new—back in the 1970s and 1980s, there were also proposals to equip 747s with nuclear-tipped cruise missiles. The jetliners would have been a cheaper alternative to the B-1B Lancer strategic bomber, then under development. Ultimately the B-1B won out, and the 747 stayed in firmly in the civilian camp.

gallery-1470337173-us07540227-20090602-d00008.png

Orbital ATK's concept, however, was slightly bolder. The concept was to put actual ICBMs in vertical launch tubes along the spine of a 747. The missiles would be launched "hot"—that is, they would ignite inside of the aircraft. That's a dicey proposition, but ATK reckoned they had it all figured out.

Is it an absolutely insane idea? Maybe not. Currently the U.S. has 450 Minuteman III ICBMs sprinkled across the Great Plains and Midwest, tucked away in hardened missile silos nestled among cornfields and farm land. In order to strike those missiles, an enemy would need to directly attack the US homeland, killing millions of civilians and irradiating millions of acres of fertile land.

The U.S. is currently looking to replace the Minuteman III with the Ground Based Strategic Deterrent program. With the new missiles comes an opportunity to base them somewhere else—preferably away from America's breadbasket. Placing them in a 747 would do that but—assuming each Minuteman III is replaced on a 1 to 1 basis—you'd need at least 150 747s to carry enough missiles.

The concept is also similar to the Department of Defense's "Arsenal Plane". The concept is to use a large aircraft—such as B-52 or 747—and pack it to the gills with conventional weapons such as cruise missiles and other standoff weapon systems. Stealthy aircraft such as the F-35 or F-22 could then provide targeting data to the Arsenal Plane, which would use long-range weapons to stay away from air defenses let loose on the target.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a22197/icbms-on-747s-plan/
 
Last edited:
There have been a lot of foolish ideas and this is one of them. So rightly shelved. Did he knew some basic physics and aerodynamics. What about preservation of the momentum in vertical / normal axis. The ICBM launch will crack the wings at the root.
 
There have been a lot of foolish ideas and this is one of them. So rightly shelved. Did he knew some basic physics and aerodynamics. What about preservation of the momentum in vertical / normal axis. The ICBM launch will crack the wings at the root.
A submarine to launch ICBMs was one such foolish idea. Yes, the idea was first ridiculed. Not that the Navy did not want to have a hidden mobile ICBM launch platform. The Navy did. The admirals just did not think the physics would allow it, let alone the engineering to make it possible.

A sub launched ICBM is a two-stage event. First, highly compressed air boosted the missile out of the water. Second, once the missile detected it is in the clear, it fires its motor.

Probably this 747 ICBM idea did not make it out of the 'back of the napkin' stage. This is where a couple of slightly crazy people doodled the idea on a piece of scrap paper or tissue over a greasy lunch at the Boeing cafeteria. Until the idea was worked on by more complex tools and more sane people, we may never know if it is workable or not.

But do not underestimate US just the same...:enjoy:
 
A submarine to launch ICBMs was one such foolish idea. Yes, the idea was first ridiculed. Not that the Navy did not want to have a hidden mobile ICBM launch platform. The Navy did. The admirals just did not think the physics would allow it, let alone the engineering to make it possible.

A sub launched ICBM is a two-stage event. First, highly compressed air boosted the missile out of the water. Second, once the missile detected it is in the clear, it fires its motor.

Probably this idea did not make it out of the 'back of the napkin' stage. This is where a couple of slightly crazy people doodled the idea on a piece of scrap paper or tissue over a greasy lunch at the Boeing cafeteria. Until the idea was worked on by more complex tools and more sane people, we may never know if it is workable or not.

But do not underestimate US just the same...:enjoy:
I'm not underestimating US but an individual. Do you think whole of USA was involved in this foolish idea?

Submarine operates in water which is an incompressible fluid with a density of 1000 times that of the air. Furthermore, the weight and size of SSBN is much larger than the SLBMs thus better able to balance out the momentum and that's when the thrust of the missile is not on. Furthermore, B-747 is not designed for this purpose however C-5 or C17 can better suited for this application but still I think, it won't work.
 
I'm not underestimating US but an individual. Do you think whole of USA was involved in this foolish idea?

Submarine operates in water which is an incompressible fluid with a density of 1000 times that of the air. Furthermore, the weight and size of SSBN is much larger than the SLBMs thus better able to balance out the momentum and that's when the thrust of the missile is not on. Furthermore, B-747 is not designed for this purpose however C-5 or C17 can better suited for this application but still I think, it won't work.
The word 'launch' is problematic here.

In general, it means to 'set into motion'. It DOES NOT mean to throw or set off a rocket motor.

The need was to make a bunch of ICBMs less vulnerable to attack. So the idea is to use a large aircraft, a converted airliner or military transport does not matter, to 'launch' an ICBM.

What if this version of ICBM is much smaller than its land/sub based cousin ? The aircraft already provided some distance and height relief, no ? Instead of flying 5000 miles from sea level, how about only 2500 miles and from 20,000 ft ? How about even less and from higher ?

What if instead of MIRVs, the ICBM is single warhead ? The American AGM-68 ALCM is nuclear capable and that body is barely 21 ft in length and 3200 lbs in weight.

Here is the smallest ICBM from US...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-134_Midgetman

That is surface based and range is nearly 7000 miles.

Why must the ICBM be vertically launched ? Why not just slide it out or drop it out ? By that time, the launch aircraft will have cleared its intended flight path, then attitude adjustment motors can right the missile up for its vertical flight.

Am an avionics guy and I can think this up. So imagine what a few slightly insane rocket engineers can do. :lol:
 
High time Russia should use a 100 Megatons Tsar bomba ,or maybe 500 just to stop this Yankie bickering and arms race.
 
even the Germans?o_O
Yes...As impressive as the Germans are, they also should not underestimate Americans. :enjoy:

I know what you mean, though.

The short time I spent in Germany I immediately like two things German: Engineering and Beer.
 
Yes...As impressive as the Germans are, they also should not underestimate Americans.
thats funny because many ppl here will claim that most of Tech US has is due to Nazis and zionists
not that i believe that but still a theory is a theory unless proven wrong
but no shit in offensive aviation no one in this world right now is a match for USAF
 

Only logical way of sending at the moment is tried on C-5 couple of decades back
 
I'm not underestimating US but an individual. Do you think whole of USA was involved in this foolish idea?

Submarine operates in water which is an incompressible fluid with a density of 1000 times that of the air. Furthermore, the weight and size of SSBN is much larger than the SLBMs thus better able to balance out the momentum and that's when the thrust of the missile is not on. Furthermore, B-747 is not designed for this purpose however C-5 or C17 can better suited for this application but still I think, it won't work.

Not any different than launching vast amount of cruise missiles from a 747. Imagine putting that on a modern 747-8. As Gambit pointed out, could easily just slide the ICBM out and launch the rocket once cleared. Considering what you see in the SpaceX, easily to keep it vertically.
The-Boeing-747-8-And-Airbus-A380.jpg

rlabfdndjnelosjgyuw5.jpg
 
Back
Top Bottom