TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[xenon54 out]

Well, as you might know a fighter jet gets built around it's engine. It means that first you decide the engine, and build your plane around it. It's not like you can switch to a different kind of engine afterwards. And it seems our decision on TF-X's engine is a disaster, granting the project to a bus maker that has zero experience/knowledge whatever you want to call it, with Jet engines (forget jet engines, it doesn't have any experience with any kind of engine.

This project is doomed, lots of money will be spent, some people who has close relation with the president will get even richer, but there will be no accomplishment.

So, feel free to discuss on whatever left from this project. I'm certainly not gonna do it anymore.

This post made me realize something, a real scandal, but im gonna shut up for now,
coming years will prove who was right and who not anyways.

 

[Oublious]

I think lot of you people should stay out the project, bmc will not participate with TFX. They are building a factory wher the companies will use it. Engine TechCenter is being build and not BMC will make jet engines, should learn to read. Most of the money is from BMC, TEi, Tusas and SSM are investors to the techcenter. Ther is not much about the techcenter and people are talking about how it will fail. A lot of the parts will be made in that TechCenter, not only for the TFX als for other aviation projects.

 

[帅的一匹]

How much money you gonna invest in engine development? 10 billions?

If you can't carry on alone, please join the AZM project with Pakistan and China.

 

[TheMightyBender]

Interestingly this whole lack of experience thing wae not an issue when Kale was building a JV with RR, instead of BMC. Everyone was cheering like theres no tomorrow. They are just as inexperienced as BMC but I guess finding ways to bash the current gov is a trend.

If this was 5 years ago and a drone contract was awarded to Baykar some people here would be throwing their feces all over the place. But baykar shut you up real good, didnt it? It must be killing you guys to see how a company close to Erdoğan is doing so well.

 

[bsruzm]

Comments are fun to read honestly lol

 

[Lozengrad]

https://twitter.com/x/status/999085408897110023

 

[Test7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/999087451124756480

 

[Test7]

Flight preparation of the F-35

https://twitter.com/x/status/999268116151627776

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

You will not make a toast machine but a fifth generation Turbofan engine, there are only a handful of companies and countries that are capable, even Chinese with all their investment and technical knowledge built up on decades still struggling.

There is no need for further discussion, just believe in what you have to believe.

Even the Chinese had to start somewhere. And sure they are struggling, and I'm sure we will struggle as well. Murphy's law.
TR Motor will enjoy TEI's experience and technical assistance from Rolls Royce, so the base is there. If it would fail, it won't be due to the lack of experience.

Well, as you might know a fighter jet gets built around it's engine. It means that first you decide the engine, and build your plane around it. It's not like you can switch to a different kind of engine afterwards. And it seems our decision on TF-X's engine is a disaster, granting the project to a bus maker that has zero experience/knowledge whatever you want to call it, with Jet engines, forget jet engines, it doesn't have any experience with any kind of engine.

This project is doomed, lots of money will be spent, some people who has close relation with the president will get even richer, but there will be no accomplishment.

So, feel free to discuss on whatever left from this project. I'm certainly not gonna do it anymore.

The project hasn't been granted to BMC, it has been granted to TR Motor. And this has been repeated in this thread a couple of times including myself. So I don't really understand why you insist on saying that the project went to BMC. Well maybe I do a little;

You seem to be focused on the whole BMC and 55% thing, but that isn't really too relevant. This is a reflection of which investor brings the most money/assets or other investment tools to the table. This means they are investing in the company, and sure they have the majority vote and can have a say in the company's direction. But at the end of the day TR Motor will be a company on it's own, with it's own directors, leadership, workers etc. and will decide for itself what steps to take.

Usually companies and joint ventures answer for and justify their actions to the shareholders during set periods of time (this goes for any company actually, even parent companies have shareholders). And only in extreme circumstances (like when a company is doing really bad) shareholders step in and determine policies, tactics and strategy for the company. Maybe even appoint a new director or CEO or something, but even then it's still the responsibility of the joint venture itself to carry out these policies etc. as they are an autonomous body.

And by the way, we assume it has been granted to TR Motor, but even that is not a certainty. It can also still go to TAEC, this hasn't been confirmed yet by TAI. But since SSM and TEI are part of TR Motor it is more likely to go to TR Motor, but that is just speculation from my part.

 

[Borg]

Even the Chinese had to start somewhere. And sure they are struggling, and I'm sure we will struggle as well. Murphy's law.
TR Motor will enjoy TEI's experience and technical assistance from Rolls Royce, so the base is there. If it would fail, it won't be due to the lack of experience.


The project hasn't been granted to BMC, it has been granted to TR Motor. And this has been repeated in this thread a couple of times including myself. So I don't really understand why you insist on saying that the project went to BMC. Well maybe I do a little;

You seem to be focused on the whole BMC and 55% thing, but that isn't really too relevant. This is a reflection of which investor brings the most money/assets or other investment tools to the table. This means they are investing in the company, and sure they have the majority vote and can have a say in the company's direction. But at the end of the day TR Motor will be a company on it's own, with it's own directors, leadership, workers etc. and will decide for itself what steps to take.

Usually companies and joint ventures answer for and justify their actions to the shareholders during set periods of time (this goes for any company actually, even parent companies have shareholders). And only in extreme circumstances (like when a company is doing really bad) shareholders step in and determine policies, tactics and strategy for the company. Maybe even appoint a new director or CEO or something, but even then it's still the responsibility of the joint venture itself to carry out these policies etc. as they are an autonomous body.

And by the way, we assume it has been granted to TR Motor, but even that is not a certainty. It can also still go to TAEC, this hasn't been confirmed yet by TAI. But since SSM and TEI are part of TR Motor it is more likely to go to TR Motor, but that is just speculation from my part.

rhebreason is obvious, many people at this forum are just here to make critics and to demonize every positiv dev. on TR! don't care about them and enjoy turkish success. don't let them mislead and discorourage you.

 

[HAIDER]

Is it still valid ?

"
Kale Group & Rolls Royce partner to produce engines for Turkey’s first national fighter jet: TF-X


08.05.2017

Rolls Royce, the British automotive and aviation giant, and Kale Group, one of Turkey’s prominent defense contractors, have announced the establishment of a joint venture.

Kale Group will own 51 percent and Rolls Royce 49 percent of the joint venture company, which will be known as the TAEC Aircraft Engine Industry Corporation. The agreement was signed on May 8, 2017, in Istanbul. TAEC will produce jet engines for both military and civilian purposes, with intellectual property rights to the engines remaining in Turkey.
Kale Group announced that they are taking the lead on the TF-X National Fighter Jet project currently being developed by Turkish Aerospace Industries, Inc. (TAI). The TF-X will be Turkey's first domestically designed and produced fighter jet and it is meant to replace the current fleet of F-16s in the early 2020s.
The joint venture follows the USD 125-million-defense deal signed between Turkey and the UK in January 2017 during UK Prime Minister Theresa May’s visit to Ankara. The deal is intended to promote cooperation between the UK’s Aviation and Defense Company, BAE Systems, and TAI on the TF-X project."

 

[kartal1]

Is it still valid ?

"
Kale Group & Rolls Royce partner to produce engines for Turkey’s first national fighter jet: TF-X


08.05.2017

Rolls Royce, the British automotive and aviation giant, and Kale Group, one of Turkey’s prominent defense contractors, have announced the establishment of a joint venture.

Kale Group will own 51 percent and Rolls Royce 49 percent of the joint venture company, which will be known as the TAEC Aircraft Engine Industry Corporation. The agreement was signed on May 8, 2017, in Istanbul. TAEC will produce jet engines for both military and civilian purposes, with intellectual property rights to the engines remaining in Turkey.
Kale Group announced that they are taking the lead on the TF-X National Fighter Jet project currently being developed by Turkish Aerospace Industries, Inc. (TAI). The TF-X will be Turkey's first domestically designed and produced fighter jet and it is meant to replace the current fleet of F-16s in the early 2020s.
The joint venture follows the USD 125-million-defense deal signed between Turkey and the UK in January 2017 during UK Prime Minister Theresa May’s visit to Ankara. The deal is intended to promote cooperation between the UK’s Aviation and Defense Company, BAE Systems, and TAI on the TF-X project."

Good question... TAEC, TR MOTOR. Both are saying to be developing an engine for TFX. The main difference is that in the one there is a company that is already experienced in production of parts for jet engines and also a company with very good reputation. In the other there is a company closely related to the government that have no experience in any engines at all let alone jet engines and also is being accused of corruption and have Qatar money. In TR MOTOR Rolls Royce will participate only for a technical support while in TAEC Rolls Royce is part of the company. Guess who will win here...

 

[Bismarck]

Turkey will purchase 32 F-35B.

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

Is it still valid ?

"
Kale Group & Rolls Royce partner to produce engines for Turkey’s first national fighter jet: TF-X


08.05.2017

Rolls Royce, the British automotive and aviation giant, and Kale Group, one of Turkey’s prominent defense contractors, have announced the establishment of a joint venture.

Kale Group will own 51 percent and Rolls Royce 49 percent of the joint venture company, which will be known as the TAEC Aircraft Engine Industry Corporation. The agreement was signed on May 8, 2017, in Istanbul. TAEC will produce jet engines for both military and civilian purposes, with intellectual property rights to the engines remaining in Turkey.
Kale Group announced that they are taking the lead on the TF-X National Fighter Jet project currently being developed by Turkish Aerospace Industries, Inc. (TAI). The TF-X will be Turkey's first domestically designed and produced fighter jet and it is meant to replace the current fleet of F-16s in the early 2020s.
The joint venture follows the USD 125-million-defense deal signed between Turkey and the UK in January 2017 during UK Prime Minister Theresa May’s visit to Ankara. The deal is intended to promote cooperation between the UK’s Aviation and Defense Company, BAE Systems, and TAI on the TF-X project."

Unknown as of yet, for the TF-X project. TAI (producer of TF-X) hasn't confirmed anything yet. TAEC will compete with TR Motor (Joint venture from BMC, Tusas Engine industries (TEI) and SSM (state entity), with technical support from Rolls Royce). So either way, Roll Royce is involved.

We don't know what TR Motor is about yet either, whether it will be a fully fledged production capability company or more like a design and R&D center. Or maybe Rolls Royce's technical support towards TR Motor will come via it's subsidiary TAEC. It's all speculation at this point, we gotta wait for an official announcement from TAI.

Even if one or the other company loses this project, there will still be plenty of other projects like the engine's for Hurjet trainer, helicopters, uav's etc. they can compete for. There is plenty of opportunity for both these companies to co-exist in the industry.

 

[帅的一匹]

Why not join AZM cause most of the NATO members are hostile/unfriendly towards Turkey?

Join SCO will be the first step to move, and I'n very confident that China will take care of Uygher Muslim. Think of the economy of sacle...

And Greece is a failed state that they can't pose very big harm to Turkey.