Tensions surface in PRC-India ties

[grey boy 2]

Tensions Surface In PRC-India Ties

By Sushil Seth

Friday, Sep 11, 2009, Page 8
‘The border dispute is part of a larger problem for China — that India, with its size and potential, denies China the right to become the acknowledged Asian supremo.’

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2009/09/11/2003453269

Recent media reports suggest that tensions between China and India are once again on the rise on their disputed border. China claims a vast swathe of India’s northeastern state of Arunchal Pradesh as its territory.

The ongoing border talks between the two countries haven’t done much to resolve the dispute. They simply froze the border dispute to unfreeze other aspects of the relationship.However, tensions crop up now and then, reminding the world that all is not quiet on the India-China border.

As Brahma Chellaney of the Centre for Policy Research in Delhi recently said: “Things are getting really intense and from the Indian perspective outrageous.”

The border issue is part of a much more complex relationship.

Beijing has never taken kindly to the presence of the Dalai Lama and his entourage in India, even though New Delhi regards Tibet as part of China. At the same time, it infuriates Beijing when India is paraded so often in international talkfests as its Asian rival.

Beijing tends to be dismissive of these claims, considering China to be stronger than India. However, it can’t stop the world from projecting India as a competing Asian power.

This has been China’s problem ever since its “liberation” in 1949. India keeps popping up in some way or the other.

New Delhi’s initial role in the early 1950s to sponsor communist China into the international community was grudgingly accepted, but its credentials doubted. Its role in facilitating autonomy for Tibet in the 1950s was regarded as doing the US’ bidding, and India increasingly came to be seen as a US proxy.

China is concerned that India somehow continues to exist as a single national entity and, by virtue of its size and potential, is regarded as Beijing’s Asian rival.

Indeed, the creation of Bangladesh in the early 1970s with Indian help sent Beijing into a rage, with then-Chinese premier Zhou Enlai (周恩&#20358 questioning — in an interview with a British journalist — the very basis of India’s nationhood, calling it a British creation.

New China News Agency then warned India on Dec. 17, 1971, that others might do to India what it had done to Pakistan.

In other words, India too could be dismembered, apparently with Chinese help.

It was, therefore, not entirely surprising when it was reported recently that a think tank linked to the Chinese military called for India to be split into 30 independent states. It said that if China “takes a little action, the so-called great Indian federation can be broken up.”

The breaking up of India, in its view, would be in China’s interest and foster regional prosperity, it said, adding that this could be accomplished though the agency of China-friendly countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nepal helping “different nationalities” (in India) establish their own independent states.

Beijing is obviously rattled by India’s move to strengthen its military presence along their joint border after reports of Chinese military intrusions, describing it as “unwise military moves.”

New Delhi, on the other hand, has reiterated its joint commitment with China to “resolve outstanding issues, including the boundary question, through peaceful dialogue and consultations, and with mutual sensitivity to each other’s concerns.”

How serious is the border situation? One cannot rule out border incidents involving military clashes, as China periodically tests Indian resolve and defenses with increased military activity. At the same time, India is equally determined to hold on to its border posts and territory to deny China any territorial advantage.

These border military clashes might develop their own momentum to create a bigger crisis. But, by and large, they are likely to be a controlled affair.

However, as pointed out earlier, the border dispute is part of a larger problem for China — that India, with its size and potential, denies China the right to become the acknowledged Asian supremo.

Japan is easily dismissed these days because of its chronic economic and political malaise. Besides, whenever it tries to raise its head, Beijing whacks it down with the stick of its historical guilt, which Japan has a knack of re-visiting on itself through its insensitivity and incompetence.

India, on the other hand, tends to loom large despite all its problems. And as long as this is the case, China will find it difficult to fit India into its scheme of things.

The only way out of this predicament is to somehow slice it into different national entities. They will be more manageable like Pakistan, Bangladesh and other smaller neighbors of India.

The problem is it is easier said than done.

True, India is plagued by insurgency, including Maoist rebels, in its far-flung regions. It does stretch the Indian state and constitutes a serious problem, but India has managed it so far. Its democratic political system gives it the necessary flexibility and responsiveness to try autonomy deals of varying success, unlike China dealing with Tibet and Xinjiang.

However, if China could accentuate these contradictions in India, it would pin down New Delhi in its neighborhood and within the country. For instance, China could funnel economic and military aid to these rebel movements through Pakistan, Bangladesh and any other country inclined to play Beijing’s game.

China has done this in the past.

However, the Maoist policy of creating “revolutionary” disorder was discontinued under former paramount leader Deng Xiaoping (鄧小&#24179 to concentrate on China’s modernization. Any reversal of this policy to put India in place will require serious deliberations at the highest level, as they could create all kinds of unpredictable complications at a time when China is still in the process of consolidating and expanding its power.

Besides, looking at Pakistan’s parlous state, it doesn’t seem like an effective Chinese proxy against India. Bangladesh too has its own problems. At the same time, India might not be an easy pushover.

That brings us to the threat of creating 30 independent states out of India.

Obviously, it is a warning of sorts to India that Beijing can create serious trouble if New Delhi sought to be “unreasonable.” In the near term, this clash might lead to some local clashes. In the long term, China might continue to question India’s nationhood, and hope for its fragmentation into multiple nation states.

In other words, there is no hopeful scenario for stable China-India relations.

 

[luoshan]

well written article.
Both countries, who are custodians of their respective living civilizations which are more than 4000 years old, need to be more broad minded and pragmatic. Instead of 'I win-you lose', both should be striving for 'we both win-win' situation.
Only this can make the 21st century the Asian century.

 

[Developereo]

It's always a good laugh to see the Indians acting all nicey nice towards China. Everybody knows that India hates China's guts but, unlike its other neighbors, India can't even dream of bullying China. So they pretend to be "partners" in an Asian century.

The fact is that China does not need India.
For anything.

China needs rich Western consumers and African/Middle Eastern resources to boost its economy. But India provides no benefits. Nothing. Zip. India's consumers are much poorer than China's own domestic consumers, and helping India's economy is not in China's long term interests. Also, in any serious confrontation between China and the West or Russia, China knows exactly where India will stand.

So both countries will continue to make pleasant statements, but both know they are on a collision course.

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

It's always a good laugh to see the Indians acting all nicey nice towards China. Everybody knows that India hates China's guts but, unlike its other neighbors, India can't even dream of bullying China. So they pretend to be "partners" in an Asian century.

The fact is that China does not need India.
For anything.

China needs rich Western consumers and African/Middle Eastern resources to boost its economy. But India provides no benefits. Nothing. Zip. India's consumers are much poorer than China's own domestic consumers, and helping India's economy is not in China's long term interests. Also, in any serious confrontation between China and the West or Russia, China knows exactly where India will stand.

So both countries will continue to make pleasant statements, but both know they are on a collision course.

I will have to disagree with you on your last point. Because for China and India to be on a collision course, that would require that both are head-to-head. How can there be a collision when China is so far ahead, and the gap is only growing exponentially over time?

 

[Nemesis]

The fact is that China does not need India.
For anything.

What makes you think we need China? We don't.

and yet despite not needing each other our trade with China is about $60 billion.

Because for China and India to be on a collision course, that would require that both are head-to-head. How can there be a collision when China is so far ahead, and the gap is only growing exponentially over time?

Stop living in your own delusions.

 

[ek_indian]

‘The border dispute is part of a larger problem for China — that India, with its size and potential, denies China the right to become the acknowledged Asian supremo.’

So article accepts that India is almost at par (somewhat behind but not too much) with China. Anyways, India and China both are matured nations and acting responsibly. The asian supremo thing is more theory than reality. There are other nations such as Japan, Russia for example.

Recent media reports suggest that tensions between China and India are once again on the rise on their disputed border. China claims a vast swathe of India’s northeastern state of Arunchal Pradesh as its territory.

Yes. "Recent media reports" suggest so. If someone could see response from the government source, it would be great. Here is an example:

Army chief calls for calm over China incursion reports

The ongoing border talks between the two countries haven’t done much to resolve the dispute. They simply froze the border dispute to unfreeze other aspects of the relationship.However, tensions crop up now and then, reminding the world that all is not quiet on the India-China border.

I agree that more has to be done with Indo-China relation. But atleast both are not crying war and heading in right direction. There are increased co-operation between them in field of environment, trade etc. But article chose to ignore those.

As Brahma Chellaney of the Centre for Policy Research in Delhi recently said: “Things are getting really intense and from the Indian perspective outrageous.”

This seems a trick to get western technology etc. We are seeing more such reports, "leaks" about our failure in everything.

Beijing has never taken kindly to the presence of the Dalai Lama and his entourage in India, even though New Delhi regards Tibet as part of China. At the same time, it infuriates Beijing when India is paraded so often in international talkfests as its Asian rival.

We understand that Beijing has some reservation on Dalai lama. But Tibet has been accepted by India as part of China. Dalai Lama has been asked not to get involved in political statements. One can not expect us to put him under house arrest.

And regarding India is paraded thing, it only shows that we are not far behind and catching up.

Beijing tends to be dismissive of these claims, considering China to be stronger than India. However, it can’t stop the world from projecting India as a competing Asian power.

So article suggests that China could do nothing to stop India rise, not even in eyes of other nation!!

This has been China’s problem ever since its “liberation” in 1949. India keeps popping up in some way or the other.

New Delhi’s initial role in the early 1950s to sponsor communist China into the international community was grudgingly accepted, but its credentials doubted. Its role in facilitating autonomy for Tibet in the 1950s was regarded as doing the US’ bidding, and India increasingly came to be seen as a US proxy.

Being a neighbour, it is very likely that we are associated with China in many ways. This is applicable to India as well with regard to China. And India doing US bidding in 1950s...please explain how??

China is concerned that India somehow continues to exist as a single national entity and, by virtue of its size and potential, is regarded as Beijing’s Asian rival.

Oh...now I see. Perhaps this is a matter of jealousy. That is a natural thing.

Indeed, the creation of Bangladesh in the early 1970s with Indian help sent Beijing into a rage, with then-Chinese premier Zhou Enlai (周恩&#20358 questioning — in an interview with a British journalist — the very basis of India’s nationhood, calling it a British creation.

New China News Agency then warned India on Dec. 17, 1971, that others might do to India what it had done to Pakistan.

In other words, India too could be dismembered, apparently with Chinese help.

If someone cries about existance of India, he/she is free to cry. However I am curious to know about Indian disintegration.

It was, therefore, not entirely surprising when it was reported recently that a think tank linked to the Chinese military called for India to be split into 30 independent states. It said that if China “takes a little action, the so-called great Indian federation can be broken up.”

How India can be splitted please let us know. And Chinese people are smart and hard working. They must be already working on this. Atleast we know one of their puppet.

The breaking up of India, in its view, would be in China’s interest and foster regional prosperity, it said, adding that this could be accomplished though the agency of China-friendly countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nepal helping “different nationalities” (in India) establish their own independent states.

So China is seeking help from Pakistan, Banglaesh and Nepal!!....Really China is too powerful. BTW, How can these countries would be able to do that job.

Also you did not mention India's allies. I should reminder about some very week countries like Russia, Israel, USA, Japan etc. I am sure India will be split into 30 states.

Beijing is obviously rattled by India’s move to strengthen its military presence along their joint border after reports of Chinese military intrusions, describing it as “unwise military moves.”

Are they are having loose motions by India's act? BTW, China has a power military as well. So they should not be uncomfortable with that.

New Delhi, on the other hand, has reiterated its joint commitment with China to “resolve outstanding issues, including the boundary question, through peaceful dialogue and consultations, and with mutual sensitivity to each other’s concerns.”

This is the best thing India and China do. Infact they are doing this.

How serious is the border situation? One cannot rule out border incidents involving military clashes, as China periodically tests Indian resolve and defenses with increased military activity. At the same time, India is equally determined to hold on to its border posts and territory to deny China any territorial advantage.

So? What is the point?

These border military clashes might develop their own momentum to create a bigger crisis. But, by and large, they are likely to be a controlled affair.

However, as pointed out earlier, the border dispute is part of a larger problem for China — that India, with its size and potential, denies China the right to become the acknowledged Asian supremo.

Hmm...again back to square 1. Both are asian giants. Whether someone denies it or not. At present, China is a bit ahead but we are trying to catch up.

Japan is easily dismissed these days because of its chronic economic and political malaise. Besides, whenever it tries to raise its head, Beijing whacks it down with the stick of its historical guilt, which Japan has a knack of re-visiting on itself through its insensitivity and incompetence.

India, on the other hand, tends to loom large despite all its problems. And as long as this is the case, China will find it difficult to fit India into its scheme of things.

Japan is dismissed. Wake up. There is another thread about Japan's rise in this forum. So I consider this as a piece of trash.

The only way out of this predicament is to somehow slice it into different national entities. They will be more manageable like Pakistan, Bangladesh and other smaller neighbors of India.

Again some split theory. How??

The problem is it is easier said than done.

Yes. You and we both know it.

True, India is plagued by insurgency, including Maoist rebels, in its far-flung regions. It does stretch the Indian state and constitutes a serious problem, but India has managed it so far. Its democratic political system gives it the necessary flexibility and responsiveness to try autonomy deals of varying success, unlike China dealing with Tibet and Xinjiang.

The insurgency is foreign supported. Rest are being dealt by India. In some time, they will be sorted out. And thanks for highligting the advantages of Indian system.

However, if China could accentuate these contradictions in India, it would pin down New Delhi in its neighborhood and within the country. For instance, China could funnel economic and military aid to these rebel movements through Pakistan, Bangladesh and any other country inclined to play Beijing’s game.

Again, China seem to depend heavily on other countries for braking up India. I thought they are already supporting it.

China has done this in the past.

My ignorance but please let me know more about this part.

However, the Maoist policy of creating “revolutionary” disorder was discontinued under former paramount leader Deng Xiaoping (鄧小&#24179 to concentrate on China’s modernization. Any reversal of this policy to put India in place will require serious deliberations at the highest level, as they could create all kinds of unpredictable complications at a time when China is still in the process of consolidating and expanding its power.

And whether China got success, it is another matter? What makes you think that India will be silently sitting meanwhile.

Besides, looking at Pakistan’s parlous state, it doesn’t seem like an effective Chinese proxy against India. Bangladesh too has its own problems. At the same time, India might not be an easy pushover.

Hmm.....then how will India be disintegrated. May be through aliens.

That brings us to the threat of creating 30 independent states out of India.

One hand hand, India is not an easy pushover. On other hand, it will be split. Both are contradicting to each other.

Obviously, it is a warning of sorts to India that Beijing can create serious trouble if New Delhi sought to be “unreasonable.” In the near term, this clash might lead to some local clashes. In the long term, China might continue to question India’s nationhood, and hope for its fragmentation into multiple nation states.

Thanks for the warning. How can China question India's nationhood. I think China has India ambessy.

In other words, there is no hopeful scenario for stable China-India relations.

I am optimistic in this regard. China is a nice and intelligent country. I hope relation between India & China improve with time.

P. S. --> Please give me source of this article.

 

[grey boy 2]

To all my happy or unhappy Indians friend;

Sorry i forgot to post the source; Taipei Times; Taiwan.

The reason i post this article was to give members different point of

view other than China and India.



http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2009/09/11/2003453269

 

[hembo]

It's always a good laugh to see the Indians acting all nicey nice towards China. Everybody knows that India hates China's guts but, unlike its other neighbors, India can't even dream of bullying China. So they pretend to be "partners" in an Asian century.

The fact is that China does not need India. For anything.

China needs rich Western consumers and African/Middle Eastern resources to boost its economy. But India provides no benefits. Nothing. Zip. India's consumers are much poorer than China's own domestic consumers, and helping India's economy is not in China's long term interests. Also, in any serious confrontation between China and the West or Russia, China knows exactly where India will stand.

So both countries will continue to make pleasant statements, but both know they are on a collision course.

It’s even better laugh to see people like you feeling proud over someone else’s achievement (China's in this case) and not feeling ashamed to rub it the wrong way too. Too bad that you're not a Chinese. I can only dream what would you have written if you had achieved what china had.

Also, FYI, when bilateral trade is there, both side gains, which justifies the ongoing huge trade between India and China. Also most Indians do not hate Chinese guts. Unlike some falsely proud ones in both sides, some of us sane ones have our heads in place and hence aren't ashamed of admitting that China is ahead of us, economically i.e. But that doesn't mean we give up and start pulling our bigger neighbour's leg by bad mouthing the negative things about it. Our stance is very clear; we want to settle all (this means ALL) disputes with everyone through peaceful BI-LATERAL negotiations and would go to the extra distance to avoid any military conflict. But if a war is imposed on us, we are more then capable of giving a fitting reply.

However, I honestly believe that there will not be any war for the simple reasons:

a) India will never initiate one.
b) China has worked very hard and deservedly reached today's economic status to ruin it with a war, which has potential to turn into a bigger then Arunachal/ South Tibet conflict.

On the contrary, there is this slight possibility of a war owing to the reason that China has a communist regime and the Govt. of China’s decisions do not always reflect the wishes of the Chinese common man.

 

[Developereo]

It’s even better laugh to see people like you feeling proud over someone else’s achievement (China's in this case) and not feeling ashamed to rub it the wrong way too.

Everybody loves watching a bully squirm. India has alienated every single one of its neighbors by its arrogance, which is why China is finding it so easy to build that string of pearls around India.

Also most Indians do not hate Chinese guts. Unlike some falsely proud ones in both sides, some of us sane ones have our heads in place and hence aren't ashamed of admitting that China is ahead of us, economically i.e.

There are, of course, many Indians who are sane and peace-minded, but an overwhelming majority of Indians are very nationalistic and it is easy for the media to manipulate that feeling into a jingoistic war march. As I explained in another post, India has accumulated centuries of wounded pride and suppressed frustration just waiting to boil over. I am not badmouthing India. India has achieved a lot and most Indians feel that they are finally on the way to achieving their manifest destiny. But if anyone bursts their bubble, the Indian reaction will be very emotional indeed.

The harsh reality for India is that China is further along on the road to power and, if/when India catches up, China is not going to tolerate any competition. Any two-bit businessman knows that. Especially given India's split loyalties with the West and the Russians.

But that doesn't mean we give up and start pulling our bigger neighbour's leg by bad mouthing the negative things about it.

No, Indian media only badmouths smaller neighbors. Once in a while, they forget and start railing against China, but then they get slapped back to reality and diplomats have to go into damage control mode. The media is India's loose cannon.