T-50 PAK-FA fighter jet project with Russia hits turbulence

[Agent_47]

New Delhi is increasingly concerned about the sluggish progress in the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) project, a joint endeavour between India and Russia.
Driving India's worries is the fact that the Russians are neither explaining why a prototype aircraft caught fire during a technology demonstration earlier this year nor addressing other technical doubts expressed by India. In fact, the defence ministry is quite sceptical about reports from Russia that a final design contract for the next generation combat jet is on the cards.

New Delhi is particularly miffed with the fact that despite being an equal partner in the FGFA project in terms of financial contribution, Moscow is not keen to share technical details about its next generation stealth fighter PAK-FA, on which the Indian version of the combat jet will be based.
The Indian version, called the Prospective Multi-Role Fighter (PMF), is almost exactly the same as PAK-FA but with some variations. In fact, Indian money is key to keeping Russia's PAKFA programme alive. Russia has built six prototypes of PAK-FA and, after repeated requests from India, it agreed to hold a demonstration flight earlier this year for technical evaluation. The flight ended in a fire that embarrassed the Russians.

But much to the surprise of an Indian team present at the site, they were not allowed anywhere near the aircraft. India wanted to know the reasons for the fire but details were never shared, said sources. India has paid $295 million (Rs.1,785.19 crore) for the preliminary design, which was finalised last year, and it is only logical that Indian officials feel concerned about the status of the PAK-FA programme. The Indian side was not satisfied with the preliminary design and raised questions about maintenance issues, the engine, stealth features, weapon carriage system, safety and reliability. Sources said there could not be any progress until these issues were resolved.
But the queries remain unanswered even after a round of discussions between the two sides this month. The Russian side's common response to New Delhi's concerns has been: "Don't get emotional." Any further push on these issues results in talk of price escalation, sources said. For instance, the Indian Air Force had made it clear last year that it was not satisfied with the engine of the new fighter, which was based on the power plant for the Sukhoi-30. A change has been promised at an additional cost.

No Indian expert or pilot has had a long hard look at the PAK-FA jet to date. The Russians are not allowing Indian pilots to fly the aircraft, claiming foreign pilots are barred from flying in their airspace.

But India argues that such restrictions were not imposed when the Sukhois or MiG jets were extensively flown in Russia by Indian pilots. Already, India has been reduced from a joint collaborator to a financing partner in the FGFA project.

The Indian work share in the venture is a paltry 13 per cent though it is paying 50 per cent of the projected cost of $10.5 billion agreed on in 2011. In terms of work, India's state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited will contribute only tyres, basic navigational instrument VOR-DME, coolant for the radar, laser designation pod and heads-up display.

Even within this 13 per cent, the actual indigenous items will be in single digits and the rest will be procured from abroad. The programme has been plagued by difficulties right from the start.

India initially wanted around 30 or 40 twin-seat aircraft to be used as trainers. But since PAK-FA was a single-seater, the Russians sought an additional $8 billion for the trainer version. The move was scrapped as India settled for training on simulators. After the signing of the final design contract, it will take 94 months to complete the development programme.

The delay in resolving technical issues has meant that the IAF will not have fifth generation fighters even by the next decade.



Read more at: T-50 PAK-FA fighter jet project with Russia hits turbulence : North, News - India Today

 

[ptltejas]

If its true We need to know it and hence good News, We Need to try To built Design Only Design For Fifth Gen for bigger fighter than AMCA What to say? Might be there is flame out of Engine but if reply is this We are Concerned. Though I am optimistic about its success, as Russia is always come with extraordinary, but now time to in together not alone.

 

[GHOSTS]

India should cease further payment to Russia until they notice our concerns. It'll be interesting to see how they'll fuel the PAK-FA project under the western sanctions and crippled economy.

 

[Sahasranama]

LOL.............. and so it starts.

Now let us scape the LCA too, its a BS plane which is not a good as Rusi maal... ..................AMCA ? no way. Rusi is giving us super duper plane with tech transfer :

India should cease further payment to Russia until they notice our concerns. It'll be interesting to see how they'll fuel the PAK-FA project under the western sanctions and crippled economy.

The will fund it just fine ................. our shelf life has just expired. We only linger as unwelcome visitors.

Russia neither respects us nor has any emotional attachment to us. How many times must we be snubbed to wake up and smell the $hit ?

 

[NKVD]

New Delhi is increasingly concerned about the sluggish progress in the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) project, a joint endeavour between India and Russia.
Driving India's worries is the fact that the Russians are neither explaining why a prototype aircraft caught fire during a technology demonstration earlier this year nor addressing other technical doubts expressed by India. In fact, the defence ministry is quite sceptical about reports from Russia that a final design contract for the next generation combat jet is on the cards.

New Delhi is particularly miffed with the fact that despite being an equal partner in the FGFA project in terms of financial contribution, Moscow is not keen to share technical details about its next generation stealth fighter PAK-FA, on which the Indian version of the combat jet will be based.
The Indian version, called the Prospective Multi-Role Fighter (PMF), is almost exactly the same as PAK-FA but with some variations. In fact, Indian money is key to keeping Russia's PAKFA programme alive. Russia has built six prototypes of PAK-FA and, after repeated requests from India, it agreed to hold a demonstration flight earlier this year for technical evaluation. The flight ended in a fire that embarrassed the Russians.

But much to the surprise of an Indian team present at the site, they were not allowed anywhere near the aircraft. India wanted to know the reasons for the fire but details were never shared, said sources. India has paid $295 million (Rs.1,785.19 crore) for the preliminary design, which was finalised last year, and it is only logical that Indian officials feel concerned about the status of the PAK-FA programme. The Indian side was not satisfied with the preliminary design and raised questions about maintenance issues, the engine, stealth features, weapon carriage system, safety and reliability. Sources said there could not be any progress until these issues were resolved.
But the queries remain unanswered even after a round of discussions between the two sides this month. The Russian side's common response to New Delhi's concerns has been: "Don't get emotional." Any further push on these issues results in talk of price escalation, sources said. For instance, the Indian Air Force had made it clear last year that it was not satisfied with the engine of the new fighter, which was based on the power plant for the Sukhoi-30. A change has been promised at an additional cost.

No Indian expert or pilot has had a long hard look at the PAK-FA jet to date. The Russians are not allowing Indian pilots to fly the aircraft, claiming foreign pilots are barred from flying in their airspace.

But India argues that such restrictions were not imposed when the Sukhois or MiG jets were extensively flown in Russia by Indian pilots. Already, India has been reduced from a joint collaborator to a financing partner in the FGFA project.

The Indian work share in the venture is a paltry 13 per cent though it is paying 50 per cent of the projected cost of $10.5 billion agreed on in 2011. In terms of work, India's state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited will contribute only tyres, basic navigational instrument VOR-DME, coolant for the radar, laser designation pod and heads-up display.

Even within this 13 per cent, the actual indigenous items will be in single digits and the rest will be procured from abroad. The programme has been plagued by difficulties right from the start.

India initially wanted around 30 or 40 twin-seat aircraft to be used as trainers. But since PAK-FA was a single-seater, the Russians sought an additional $8 billion for the trainer version. The move was scrapped as India settled for training on simulators. After the signing of the final design contract, it will take 94 months to complete the development programme.

The delay in resolving technical issues has meant that the IAF will not have fifth generation fighters even by the next decade.



Read more at: T-50 PAK-FA fighter jet project with Russia hits turbulence : North, News - India Today

Another Western Propaganda Based Article.Nice try . Whats your views @sancho @Abingdonboy @HariPrasad @sreekumar @Star Wars @gslv

 

[rcrmj]

based on current Russia's ability on developing modern cutting edge weapon systems, Su-35 will be their finally star of their decade long show, they will never make T-50 a true 5th gen stealth fighter, even if they did it, by the time, the sky could be dominated by Chinese and Americans sixth gen fighters.

sounds funny isnt ? but it is the truth

 

[NKVD]

based on current Russia's ability on developing modern cutting edge weapon systems, Su-35 will be their finally star of their decade long show, they will never make T-50 a true 5th gen stealth fighter, even if they did it, by the time, the sky could be dominated by Chinese and Americans sixth gen fighters.

sounds funny isnt ? but it is the truth

Russian version Induction is in December 2016 As for your Poor IQ

 

[rockstarIN]

It is best to go underground collaboration with Japan in 5th gen. Since they cant help us publicly, we can get their great help for our own desi stuff.

 

[Sahasranama]

Another Western Propaganda Based Article.Nice try . Whats your views @sancho @Abingdonboy @HariPrasad @sreekumar @Star Wars @gslv

Ya ..... its all chinese propaganda .... or is it a US conspiracy ?

It is best to go underground collaboration with Japan in 5th gen. Since they cant help us publicly, we can get their great help for our own desi stuff.

Only Japan has a constitution that explicitly prevents them from doing something like this ...... wishes are not horses.

 

[NKVD]

It is best to go underground collaboration with Japan in 5th gen. Since they cant help us publicly, we can get their great help for our own desi stuff.

My dear if you Read the Article which i Know it Total BS We already Paid 295 million for first Installment for Designing Phase.Means the Deal is On Now Pulling back Will Jeopardize our relations with Russians

 

[$even]

Means the Deal is On Now Pulling back Will Jeopardize our relations with Russians

Let me catch you up on the latest developments. The Chinese have the Russians by the b@ll$. So your concerns about jeopardizing relations with Russia is no longer valid.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Another Western Propaganda Based Article.Nice try . Whats your views @sancho @Abingdonboy @HariPrasad @sreekumar @Star Wars @gslv

Old old news- propaganda indeed.

 

[sancho]

Another Western Propaganda Based Article.Nice try . Whats your views

Nonsense article, since when does HAL produce tires or LDP's? IAF did not complaint about engines last year (Ajay Shukla did) but some years ago, which resulted in the development of the Type 30 engine, that is now in production for the next batch of Pak Fa and FGFA prototypes. And that the demand of a new engine costs extra, should be logical or? UAE must pay extra if they want higher thrust engines on Rafale, Boeing offered us EPE engines for F18 SHs, if we pay extra, Kuwait paid extra for higher thrust engines in their Hornets..., nothing unusual.

We must get rid of the notion that we are an equal partner in the development of the fighter, we are not! Not because the Russians treat us bad, but because we lack the know how to contribute more! That's why crying foul everytime the Russians play things in their favour, because we are the weak partner is silly and wasted time, while we have to focus on improving our capabilities to contibute more or to change things in our favour.
We still don't know the details of the contract, but IF we compromised on a single seater Pak Fa / FGFA at first to keep costs in check, imo we must insist on the Russians buying their fighters with avionics made by HAL or Samtel too, to have one common layout that reduces costs. We have certain areas where we have the capability like avionics and it is in our interest to get the Russians to buy more of our stuff too!

 

[spectribution]

Simple facts

1. India has no capability to manufacture a quality 4.5++ let alone a 5th generation aircraft.

2. Russia knows this so they will make us pay more and give less workload. This is logical like someone paying money while other person assembles science project.

3. Pakfa will come 3rd after f 22 and f 35 respectively as one of the best 5th gen fighters of next decade. J 20 does'nt count as so far it brings nothing new to the table in terms of 5th gen.

Pakfa gives 240 degree AESA and 3d Tvc as well as rcs of 0.01 msq.

4. Even J 20 had a system failure if you google it.This is a common thing in fighter development. Less said about F 35 the better.

6. The program is very much on track and a 100% mature PAKFA will be available for IAF by 2022.

 

[hkdas]

Simple facts

1. India has no capability to manufacture a quality 4.5++ let alone a 5th generation aircraft.

2. Russia knows this so they will make us pay more and give less workload. This is logical like someone paying money while other person assembles science project.

3. Pakfa will come 3rd after f 22 and f 35 respectively as one of the best 5th gen fighters of next decade. J 20 does'nt count as so far it brings nothing new to the table in terms of 5th gen.

Pakfa gives 240 degree AESA and 3d Tvc as well as rcs of 0.01 msq.

4. Even J 20 had a system failure if you google it.This is a common thing in fighter development. Less said about F 35 the better.

6. The program is very much on track and a 100% mature PAKFA will be available for IAF by 2022.

i don't agree with you. no one underestimate india's capability. at least russia. at the time india sign the contract with russia for development of brahmos india don't even had cruise missile.. not even a plan to develop one other than brahmos. hell india don't even had a IRBM at that time. now brahmos is the fastest and most advanced cruise missile in the world.
the reason is that russia don't want to share the technology but they want a financial partner for PAK FA. india have more advance technology in composite materials and avionics than russia. indian software are much more advance than russian.