T-129 Atak & Turkish Attack Helicopter Programs

[otriz]

Don't know when we'd be able to afford this beauty.

May i ask why you won't be able to afford it(and some other things) right now?

 

[Kompromat]

May i ask why you won't be able to afford it(and some other things) right now?

These helis are not exactly cheap. Our economy is not in a position to buy them in strong numbers with transfer for production technology from TAI. There are a lot of ifs and buts on the US made engines too in regards to Pakistan, since they still want to sell AH-1Z Viper helis.

 

[otriz]

If a deal happens i am sure you will get the best package like tech-transfer,license to build it home,personnel training.But in any case i hope for the best for Pakistan.I hope for the best which will serve you wins the tender and for your economy to get better.Regards

 

[Hakan]

What makes ATAK better than other attack helicopters and what gives it the competitive edge over everyone elses helicopters?

Serious question. Im not acting like a smart***

 

[Kamil_baku]

What makes ATAK better than other attack helicopters and what gives it the competitive edge over everyone elses helicopters?

Serious question. Im not acting like a smart***

I will tell those things i know, the rest, im also interested actually.
1 is it use HD thermal camera(only one in the world thanks to some processing techniques)
2 it can stand 15 cm rock if its blade hit. Which means any tree or cable(which is the main problem for low flying helicoters) wouldnt be problem
3 its own weapons, which in the future could be developed to hit more distance(as they tested cirit from 10 km)
4 Turkey will use Millimetr wave radar which is the second in the world(also Russian say they have it but actually its range is really low and they dont use this radar to protect heli from coming missiles against (which increase the protection almost 7-8 times), also you can hit murtualy targets on bad weather. Also get all heigh information while passing through mountions when there is bad weather. It would also let it to be invisible to mountains
5 it got missile warning and take the control of heli in case of missile attack(which mostly helicopters has only 1-2 seconds to through flares or .. It basically differentiate radar based from heat based missiles and get their direction(coming from). Basically do all security base on those infos
It climbs to 6100 meter(20000 feet). But eurocopter tiger is 4000 meters(13000 feet) or mi28 havoc is 5000 meter (service ceiling)
Only apache go 300 more meters up than atak.


The price of it is another advantage..

 

[xxxKULxxx]

New camo of Super Cobras.. Same with T-129... From exercises with Azerbaycan..

 

[Some1LikeU]

1. Aselflir 235 cats had shown in adex 2014 in Azerbaijan. I think it will replace T300 which has 110 kg nearly but 235 cats has only 63 kg. She can carry one more cirit : )

 

[Random111]

1. Aselflir 235 cats had shown in adex 2014 in Azerbaijan. I think it will replace T300 which has 110 kg nearly but 235 cats has only 63 kg. She can carry one more cirit : )

Showing a mock-up is one thing, getting that thing to work and installing is another. Nine T-129's will be delivered, I hope the next batch will have CATS.

But since CATS is so light on the front they'll have to deal with balancing problems once again.

 

[Bismarck]

1. Aselflir 235 cats had shown in adex 2014 in Azerbaijan. I think it will replace T300 which has 110 kg nearly but 235 cats has only 63 kg. She can carry one more cirit : )

Why only one? One Cirit weights 15 kg.

 

[ANMDT]

Showing a mock-up is one thing, getting that thing to work and installing is another. Nine T-129's will be delivered, I hope the next batch will have CATS.

But since CATS is so light on the front they'll have to deal with balancing problems once again.

Actually it will be solution for weight issue for existing EDH ( early delivery ) Since the extra weight added to tail,for stabilization,now they remove counter weight from foreside,thus may remove the extra weight from tail.

As far i known,and its written in sources, T129 was tilting forward continuously,and pilot/avionics need to correct it often ,spending extra power- and diffraction ,decided to adding weight on tail in order to fix this. But ,this lead another issues, unexpected (slower) responses to immediate maneuvers,due to increase in radius of gyration, and stabilization issues after maneuvers related the same issue ,also lower service ceiling .

Deliveries after EDH will be upgraded, slightly longer than EDH and weight issue will be totally solved,by reduction in equipment weight ( from flir to avionics a new better system will be used. )

Why only one? One Cirit weights 15 kg.

one launcher of cirit weights nearly 70 kg (4x15 +10kg ) 57 kg from foreside, will led a counter weight (which added to stabilize) will be removed will be about 20-25 kg so will give enough weight addition for this.

But if we think, already there is an extra ,intentionally added weight on helo , by reduction of 70 kg, service ceiling will increase to claimed height, while there will be no added weapons .

Maybe after , foreside's weight is enoughly reduced, and added weight completely removed,then additions will be thought of .

 

[SRBM2]

I will tell those things i know, the rest, im also interested actually.
1 is it use HD thermal camera(only one in the world thanks to some processing techniques)
2 it can stand 15 cm rock if its blade hit. Which means any tree or cable(which is the main problem for low flying helicoters) wouldnt be problem
3 its own weapons, which in the future could be developed to hit more distance(as they tested cirit from 10 km)
4 Turkey will use Millimetr wave radar which is the second in the world(also Russian say they have it but actually its range is really low and they dont use this radar to protect heli from coming missiles against (which increase the protection almost 7-8 times), also you can hit murtualy targets on bad weather. Also get all heigh information while passing through mountions when there is bad weather. It would also let it to be invisible to mountains
5 it got missile warning and take the control of heli in case of missile attack(which mostly helicopters has only 1-2 seconds to through flares or .. It basically differentiate radar based from heat based missiles and get their direction(coming from). Basically do all security base on those infos
It climbs to 6100 meter(20000 feet). But eurocopter tiger is 4000 meters(13000 feet) or mi28 havoc is 5000 meter (service ceiling)
Only apache go 300 more meters up than atak.


The price of it is another advantage..

1) There are currently 4 Attack Helicopters using HD 720p or above FLIRs. Which includes Ka-52 with the UOMZ/SAGEM cooperated system GOES-451, sry not allowed to post pdf files. Zenit Tor the weapon and targeting system on Mi-28N their page only gives information for export mod equipment for Mi-35, WZ-10 still prototype as T-129 but was said to have HD FLIR don't know chinese and english sources are very unreliable and most of the time quote just each others post.

2) Don't know what you mean by it can stand 15cm when hit by a rock. If you mean rotor blades being resilient enough to withstand damage, that counts to all "newer" rotor blades which composite made including AH-1Z,AH-64D,Mi-35M,Mi-28N and WZ-10, not sure if Tigers already have composite blades same as CSH-2.

4) Russians do use Arbalet radars which are not just MMW but multibandwidth radars operating in CMW and MMW giving them against air targets in CMW higher range than any MMW bandwidth can track. It is also implemented in Ka-52 and Mi-28N Vitebsk Thread Warning, Identification and Counter Measure System (TWICMS) and can detect incoming MANPAD sized missiles at 5km range.

Phazotron company you can find this:

"Arbalet"

"Arbalet" unified radar system intended for equipment of round-the-clock and all-weather helicopters.

• 
  "Arbalet" basic functions:
• mapping
• support of attack by guided and unguided weapons to ground, surface and air targets
• low altitude flight support
• detection of attacking planes, helicopters, missiles
• detection dangerous meteoformations
• correction of navigating system and support of landing to non-equipped platforms

Another quote from source i can not link as new member but which can be found when using google.

Air-to-surface modes

• Various mapping modes
• Moving Target Selection of ground and air targets
• Determination of priority of objects
• Determination of terrain contours and obstacle detection during low-altitude flight
• Missile approach warning
• Support/cueing of EO targetting systems
• Detection of dangerous weather formations
• Navigation systems update/correction
• Missile and rocket control
• Target type classification (in conjunction with IFF)
• Azimuth coverage: 120°
• Mapping range: 32 km
• Range of detection of ground target: bridge: 25 km, tank: 12 km
• Measurement precision: azimuth: 12 min, elevation: 17 min, distance: 20 m
• Range of detection of ground-based obstacles and terrain detection/avoidance- Electricity cables: 0.4 km, 10° sloping terrain: 1.5 km
• Tracks 20 targets at once

Air-to-air modes

• Search limits, azimuth: 360°, elevation ±30°
• Detection range for Attack aircraft: 15 km, Stinger missile: 5 km
• Tracking limits, azimuth: ±60°, elevation: ±30°
• Tracks up to 20 targets

The Radar on Ka-52 is also 130° wide angle tracking and can cover overall nearly 180° of frontal sphere, while Longbow radar covers 90° of frontal sphere.

Not sure what you mean by "It would also let it to be invisible to mountains".

5) full spectrum awarness that is called and that is the case for several helicopters.
This helicopters have full spectrum awarness or high spectrum awarness

Full spectrum Awarness (RWR,LWR,MAWS,Radar)
Ka-52,Mi-28N, AH-1Z (all currently operational) next will be WZ-10,T-129 and AH-64

High spectrum Awarness (RWR,LWR, MAWS)

EC-665, WZ-10, Mi-35M2/PK-2

The Full Spectrum Awarness helicopters have all to some degree automated and can classify direction, type and modulate the flare/chaff dispensing sequence with the most probable interception rate. The High spectrum Awarness helos have one or the other missing sensor either radar or maws or lwr, most miss radars except Mi-35M/PK-2 they miss LWR, but they use active pulse doppler radar MAWS LIP/SPO-15ML with automated CMS function.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

T-129 & Cirit( with Super Cobra) used in exercises today... Let's wait for photos and videos...

I saw it on TV...

 

[Casus Belli]

 

[xxxKULxxx]

At the end of this year last 4 of 9 T-129 EDHs will enter inventory...

T129'lar Ne Zaman Teslim Edilecek? - Savunma - Gündem Haber, Sıcak Haber, Son dakika haberleri, Anket,

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Hope good news is soon for both of Türkiye & Pakistan...

Subject starts with PDF member Basel's this post and continues >>>

Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions. | Page 72