T-129 Atak & Turkish Attack Helicopter Programs

[ARMalik]

Thats up to the US, Philippines got their helicopters already, Pakistan needs to better diplomacy, they should leverage their influence over Afghanistan and cooperation with the US on these matters as well as permission that they gave to the US for use of airspace to get export clearance for the helicopter engines.

Right so the SELLER has no obligations, all obligations are on the CUSTOMER. Seriously dude, stop talking nonsense. Turkey FAILED TO PROVIDE PRODUCT AS PER CONTRACT.

 

[Tshering22]

Thats up to the US, Philippines got their helicopters already, Pakistan needs to better diplomacy, they should leverage their influence over Afghanistan and cooperation with the US on these matters as well as permission that they gave to the US for use of airspace to get export clearance for the helicopter engines.

The A-129 variant uses 2 Rolls-Royce Gem 2-1004D turboshaft engines that are license-built by Piaggio in Italy. I don't understand why doesn't TAI just get some of those engines for exporting to Pakistan rather than waiting for something that is not going to happen in terms of export clearance from the USA. At least, until the Turkish local engine is ready, trialed and successfully cleared for mass production.

Right so the SELLER has no obligations, all obligations are on the CUSTOMER. Seriously dude, stop talking nonsense. Turkey FAILED TO PROVIDE PRODUCT AS PER CONTRACT.

Has the payment of $1.5 billion been made to Turkey? If this is the case, then there must be contract clauses that allow Pakistan to demand some compensation for the delays or failure to deliver the product.

 

[lcloo]

The A-129 variant uses 2 Rolls-Royce Gem 2-1004D turboshaft engines that are license-built by Piaggio in Italy. I don't understand why doesn't TAI just get some of those engines for exporting to Pakistan rather than waiting for something that is not going to happen in terms of export clearance from the USA. At least, until the Turkish local engine is ready, trialed and successfully cleared for mass product.

Italian A-129 with R&R Gem 2-1004D has poor climbing rate of 10.2 m/s as it has only 664KW power each engine vs the up-engined T-129 with 1,014KW each engine with climb rate of 13.26m/s.

Many pakistani members here stated that T-129 was selected mainly due to its superior climb rate. They won't go for T-129 equiped with the same engines as A-129.

 

[mjting01]

Curious question. are all FAZ-2 deliveries identical? I noticed that the one we are getting for the philippines, does not seem have a "lens" in the two front nose additional sections. and it is the same for the police one.

While the land forces one seems to have a "lens"

are these omissions? or are they just "closed"?

Hello! Sorry for insisting. Hoping I can get an answer for this query? sorry and thanks!

 

[dBSPL]

Gents, I came across this video today that mentioned Turkish Police using gunships. Any ideas on how would operating military gunships help civilian police?

The police force is one of the largest institutions in Turkey and has sub-departments that provide a wide range of services related to Turkey's own special conditions, in addition to other service areas. Civil service areas are only part of the institution. Apart from the Police-Gendarmerie, more specifically, Police special operations units are specialized in areas such as direct counter-terrorism and sensitive operations.

The number of helicopters affiliated to the Turkish Police Organization (excluding the Gendarmerie) is 9. The Department of Aviation of the General Directorate of Security has a history of approximately 50 years. Finally, the Police aviation teams have had a direct helicopter attack power in hot clashes with terrorists with an attack class helicopter, which is not found in any police agency in the world. Turkey has made very important policy changes/investments in the fight against terrorism in recent years, and as a result, its intelligence and visual technical facilities have increased to the maximum; and the reaction times were reduced to the minumum. As a result of these effective policies, the PKK's effectiveness has been completely destroyed in Turkey today.

 

[merzifonlu]

Hello! Sorry for insisting. Hoping I can get an answer for this query? sorry and thanks!

With the FAZ-2 update, the T129s will have massive upgrades EW systems. Laser and radar warning systems & distruptors and much more advanced radio.

Do T129s sold to the Philippines have these features? I do not know. If they have those lenses on their wingtips, they have those features. They're laser warning receivers.

 

[mjting01]

With the FAZ-2 update, the T129s will have massive upgrades EW systems. Laser and radar warning systems & distruptors and much more advanced radio.

Do T129s sold to the Philippines have these features? I do not know. If they have those lenses on their wingtips, they have those features. They're laser warning receivers.

Thank you so much.

Yep, the ones on the wings are easy to spot. I am curious about the new bulges on the nose. two of those, above the gun, and below the main round sensor. I noticed that for the land forces one, those two small bulges have "lens" whereas on the police ones and the Ph ones, there are none. Are those just closed for delivery purposes?

Please check comparison images.

 

[Polestar 2]

Thats up to the US, Philippines got their helicopters already, Pakistan needs to better diplomacy, they should leverage their influence over Afghanistan and cooperation with the US on these matters as well as permission that they gave to the US for use of airspace to get export clearance for the helicopter engines.

At expense of Pakistan give up their sovereign right? Sorry no, Pakistan already sting badly once by allowing US drone strike on their land in past. At least the Chinese do not impose this kind of ridiculous right on others. Pakistan rather drop the helo than losing their own dignity and humiliation.

 

[merzifonlu]

Thank you so much.

Yep, the ones on the wings are easy to spot. I am curious about the new bulges on the nose. two of those, above the gun, and below the main round sensor. I noticed that for the land forces one, those two small bulges have "lens" whereas on the police ones and the Ph ones, there are none. Are those just closed for delivery purposes?

Please check comparison images.

They must be radar warning receivers and jammers. Yes, there are probably minor modifications to the models that were delivered to different forces. After all, this helicopter is constantly evolving. So much so that there is no place to put additional equipment in the helicopter anymore.

For this reason, a new helicopter is planned with the military version of the TS-1400 engine and its domestic transmission. The T-629 is planned, which will be 1 tonne heavier than the T129. This helicopter will have a common infrastructure with the Gökbey civil helicopter.

If the T-629 can be produced quickly, it can be offered to Pakistan instead of the T129 Atak. However, first of all, Gökbey needs to enter mass production. The T-629, which will share the joint infrastructure with Gökbey after it enters mass production, is implemented very quickly.

Note: Except for the T-629 model, the 10-ton class T-929 model, which will fly with the Ukrainian engine, will also be produced. In fact, this helicopter can be produced even before the T-629.

 

[dBSPL]

Italian A-129 with R&R Gem 2-1004D has poor climbing rate of 10.2 m/s as it has only 664KW power each engine vs the up-engined T-129 with 1,014KW each engine with climb rate of 13.26m/s.

Many pakistani members here stated that T-129 was selected mainly due to its superior climb rate. They won't go for T-129 equiped with the same engines as A-129.

When LHTEC(T800 family) engines were first developed, they were truly ahead of their time in their class. It is still one of the best performance engine in light attack platforms with minor modifications and variants on the main system. The Turkish-Italian partnership actually recreated the A-129 especially with the choice of LHTEC. If I remember correctly, LHTEC engines were also considered in the next generation attack helicopter planning that Italy is currently developing...

 

[ARMalik]

Has the payment of $1.5 billion been made to Turkey? If this is the case, then there must be contract clauses that allow Pakistan to demand some compensation for the delays or failure to deliver the product.

Obviously you are an indian - you have no concept of legal agreements. All you want is the money by hook or by crook - its in your DNA.

 

[dBSPL]

Has the payment of $1.5 billion been made to Turkey? If this is the case, then there must be contract clauses that allow Pakistan to demand some compensation for the delays or failure to deliver the product.

I don't think anyone here has know the details of the contract. But, As far as I know, financing of military sales to Pakistan is credited through Turk Eximbank. Considering the intergovernmental relations between the two countries, it is natural to resolve these issues based on mutual goodwill.

 

[dBSPL]

"The first engine deliveries for the Heavy Class Attack Helicopter are planned for September 2022. After the engine delivery of the Ukrainian MotorSich company, ATAK-II will start to run rotors for ground tests as of the second half of this year." (via @aniIsahin https://twitter.com/aniIsahin)

Unlike the first ATAK program, the ATAK-2 is not a developing program carried out in direct cooperation with any country. It stands out as a new and indigenous solution that has eliminated any type export barriers.

 

[Tshering22]

Obviously you are an indian - you have no concept of legal agreements. All you want is the money by hook or by crook - its in your DNA.

You do realize that the government of Pakistan has to pay for these helicopters, right?

That's all I asked.

"Right so the SELLER has no obligations, all obligations are on the CUSTOMER. Seriously dude, stop talking nonsense. Turkey FAILED TO PROVIDE PRODUCT AS PER CONTRACT."

The were your words, not mine. Legal agreements usually carry some sort of penalty or compensation for delivery, unless it is different in Pakistan.

That's all I asked. Don't see what has that got to do with me being an Indian or anyone being anything here.

 

[python-000]

Thats up to the US, Philippines got their helicopters already, Pakistan needs to better diplomacy, they should leverage their influence over Afghanistan and cooperation with the US on these matters as well as permission that they gave to the US for use of airspace to get export clearance for the helicopter engines.

NOT NEEDED we already have other options...