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SU-30's Cobra Maneuvers - A Treat for PAF Shaheen

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By: Qasim Al-Yaldram

The disparity between the IAF and PAF has always been in numbers , since there inceptions. But the technological edge, as most people know, have always been PAF Shaheen's school of specialism. In 1965, PAF fighter pilot was interviewed upon which he said "They are falling like birds." For detail view click the following
. That was the state of readiness our PAF has ever been since.

India has been trying hard to cover the vacuum that PAF Shaheen legacy makers left. And to some extent they have been quite successful in acquiring the Mirage2000s (French) and recently Russian state of the art roll out SU-30 MKI. The aircraft has impressed many airforces around the globe including, Indonesia, Malaysia, Venezuela, China and India in particular. Recently, Indian Airforce has been able to couple SU-30MKI aircrafts with there own indigenously developed and Israeli acquired avionics, making it a lethal fighter plane then ever before.

However, the game is not over yet!!! The will to remain intact in the war, only decides a 'Victor'. SU-30MKI is equipped with some most advance Actice ESA RADAR system Phazotron, which can track upto 15 air targets including cruise missiles and helicopters. SU-30MKI can perform complex air combat maneuvers like Pugachev's Cobra, Cobra Turns and Kulbits. And above all, the best part of the parcel is, SU-30MKI has Thrust Vectoring capability which may seem, flawless.

Even said and agreed with the technological beauty of this plane. Yet, war is not all about technology and numerical disparity. It is the way how good, one can exploit the weakness of its adversary. SU-30MKI was designed for air superiority missions including air interception and ground attack capabilities. Its air maneuverability is improved by installing canards in the front. Yet it remains a heavy plane when in the air. Thrust vector may sound amazing, but the fact is, the true potential of thrust vectoring capability during a dogfight still remain a question of doubt as of today.

The thrust vectoring in SU-30MKI forms an introverted V shaped thrust, which does not pitch the aircraft as needed, in certain air combat maneuvers e.g. doing scissor. And very unlike in F-22 Raptor which has two dimensional pitched thrust. Therefore, when the thrust vectoring is implied, it creates massive drag for such iron mass in the air, consequently, SU-30MKI is unable to sustain its height instead, it starts sinking down. And before, SU-30MKI has completed its Cobra maneuver, the pilot may be looking for ejection button, as dozen of bullets have already been drilled in to its plane by an adversary.

SU-30MKI aircraft implies two Saturn Al-31FP turbofans, which gives good thrust to the aircraft. Yet, the quality of these engines due to Russian origin still remain highly susceptible as compare to RD-93(Advance version of Russian RD-33), Pratt & Whitney or even Rolls Royce. In case of any disruption of the engines, Indians Airforce has no other choice but to send the engines back to Russia to be fixed, rather repairing them at home.

The ability of any aircraft, is exhibited as soon as it can be airborne in real time situation. SU-3MKI needs one minute spacing to take-off. Where as PAF Shaheen has been able to reduce the airborne time of A-5 aircrafts to less then one minute, which are considered to be oldest aircrafts serving today. One minute spacing means, a window of time span for PAF Shaheen to attack and destroy the rest of the SU-30MKI planes getting ready for taxi.

Last but not the least, the man behind the weapon really matters. In some of the recent air exercises held by Indian and US Airforces together like Red Flag 2008. It was found that pilots of SU-30MKIs had less then 100 flying hours, altogether. Whereas PAF Shaheen are far more superior in terms of flying hours and quality of awareness towards the practicality of technology during the war. However, its not far when SU-30MKI pilots would enhance there flying hours, excavate the true potential of this aircraft and use it for there advantage.

The world is undergoing global force-repositioning phase, where every strong nation is getting ready for offensive. It is imperative that air war doctorine of PAF Shaheen should be revised and should put on offensive footing rather then ground support and air interception missions. PAF Shaheen are second to none even now. But much more work has yet to be done by fast forwarding the JF-17 induction and J-10 procurements. PAF Shaheen has to re-establish there objectivity in terms of Pakistan's vision of calling itself "FORT OF ISLAM". PAF Shaheen has to think out of geographic boundaries and have to start working on air superiority and surgical strikes mission in India and in middle eastern fronts.

Pak Mission: SU-30's Cobra Maneuvers - A Treat for PAF's Shaheen
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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SIR he has done an extremely good job in just TYPING what that col. of USAF said in that informal video
Last but not the least, the man behind the weapon really matters. In some of the recent air exercises held by Indian and US Airforces together like Red Flag 2008. It was found that pilots of SU-30MKIs had less then 100 flying hours, altogether. Whereas PAF Shaheen are far more superior in terms of flying hours and quality of awareness towards the practicality of technology during the war. However, its not far when SU-30MKI pilots would enhance there flying hours, excavate the true potential of this aircraft and use it for there advantage.

the sentence in bold .... let me explain that

the squad sent to the red flag was half oldies and half young guys ....so that the young could keep their experience in the fighting force for a longer time than what white hairs could do and THAT does not mean guysdo not have more than 100 flying hours on the MKI there are pilots who have flown 9 yes nine hours straight in a single sortie with multiple areal refueling of course .

AND

SU-30MKI aircraft implies two Saturn Al-31FP turbofans, which gives good thrust to the aircraft. Yet, the quality of these engines due to Russian origin still remain highly susceptible as compare to RD-93(Advance version of Russian RD-33), Pratt & Whitney or even Rolls Royce. In case of any disruption of the engines, Indians Airforce has no other choice but to send the engines back to Russia to be fixed, rather repairing them at home.

ATO Russia & CIS Observer - Archive - ¹ 2 (6), July 2004 - DEFENSE - India Prefers Russian Engine to Power HJT-36 Trainer - 

see the link above it says HAL started license manufacturing of AL-31FP in 2004 so it is logical that when we are building them here from scratch what is the need for sending it to russia for fixing it :crazy:

The ability of any aircraft, is exhibited as soon as it can be airborne in real time situation. SU-3MKI needs one minute spacing to take-off. Where as PAF Shaheen has been able to reduce the airborne time of A-5 aircrafts to less then one minute, which are considered to be oldest aircrafts serving today. One minute spacing means, a window of time span for PAF Shaheen to attack and destroy the rest of the SU-30MKI planes getting ready for taxi.

again that col. words ONE MINUTE spacing was required because USA is 8700 MILES away from India so they could not take the risk for any AVOIDABLE DAMAGE from happening :agree:to the engines and aircraft if it was lohegaon then 2 sukhois could have took off together
e58ae287fb1de93b8ac2a468fc2293ea.jpg


if the russians can do it then y cant we:azn:

and do you think your shaheens would sneak into our airspace and come till our airbases unnoticed not even we can do that to you come on it was 1965 not 2009


this article is complete BS :agree:

:cheers:
 
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sorry forgot but the cobra belongs to the su-27 and pugachev not the su-30 and not even indians

:cheers:
 
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SIR he has done an extremely good job in just TYPING what that col. of USAF said in that informal video


the sentence in bold .... let me explain that

the squad sent to the red flag was half oldies and half young guys ....so that the young could keep their experience in the fighting force for a longer time than what white hairs could do and THAT does not mean guysdo not have more than 100 flying hours on the MKI there are pilots who have flown 9 yes nine hours straight in a single sortie with multiple areal refueling of course .

AND



ATO Russia & CIS Observer*-*Archive*-*¹ 2 (6), July 2004*-*DEFENSE*-*India Prefers Russian Engine to Power HJT-36 Trainer*-*

see the link above it says HAL started license manufacturing of AL-31FP in 2004 so it is logical that when we are building them here from scratch what is the need for sending it to russia for fixing it :crazy:



again that col. words ONE MINUTE spacing was required because USA is 8700 MILES away from India so they could not take the risk for any AVOIDABLE DAMAGE from happening :agree:to the engines and aircraft if it was lohegaon then 2 sukhois could have took off together
e58ae287fb1de93b8ac2a468fc2293ea.jpg


if the russians can do it then y cant we:azn:

and do you think your shaheens would sneak into our airspace and come till our airbases unnoticed not even we can do that to you come on it was 1965 not 2009


this article is complete BS :agree:

:cheers:

gud counter attack man. F/A - 16 BK50/52 is not Compared to Su-30MKI:toast_sign:
 
.
Cobra in real combat? That means BVR is gone and WVR started. Here you are in a big machine going against a much smaller machine and with highly agile WVR missiles you start playing with your energy... In other words... Nice for airshows but in real combat you do not make a circus... You go in, hit hard and move out.
 
. .
By: Qasim Al-Yaldram

The disparity between the IAF and PAF has always been in numbers , since there inceptions. But the technological edge, as most people know, have always been PAF Shaheen's school of specialism. In 1965, PAF fighter pilot was interviewed upon which he said "They are falling like birds." For detail view click the following PFHlzP69n9c[/media] - Pakistan Air Force Pilots of 1965 War - ??? ??????. That was the state of readiness our PAF has ever been since.

India has been trying hard to cover the vacuum that PAF Shaheen legacy makers left. And to some extent they have been quite successful in acquiring the Mirage2000s (French) and recently Russian state of the art roll out SU-30 MKI. The aircraft has impressed many airforces around the globe including, Indonesia, Malaysia, Venezuela, China and India in particular. Recently, Indian Airforce has been able to couple SU-30MKI aircrafts with there own indigenously developed and Israeli acquired avionics, making it a lethal fighter plane then ever before.

However, the game is not over yet!!! The will to remain intact in the war, only decides a 'Victor'. SU-30MKI is equipped with some most advance Actice ESA RADAR system Phazotron, which can track upto 15 air targets including cruise missiles and helicopters. SU-30MKI can perform complex air combat maneuvers like Pugachev's Cobra, Cobra Turns and Kulbits. And above all, the best part of the parcel is, SU-30MKI has Thrust Vectoring capability which may seem, flawless.

Even said and agreed with the technological beauty of this plane. Yet, war is not all about technology and numerical disparity. It is the way how good, one can exploit the weakness of its adversary. SU-30MKI was designed for air superiority missions including air interception and ground attack capabilities. Its air maneuverability is improved by installing canards in the front. Yet it remains a heavy plane when in the air. Thrust vector may sound amazing, but the fact is, the true potential of thrust vectoring capability during a dogfight still remain a question of doubt as of today.

The thrust vectoring in SU-30MKI forms an introverted V shaped thrust, which does not pitch the aircraft as needed, in certain air combat maneuvers e.g. doing scissor. And very unlike in F-22 Raptor which has two dimensional pitched thrust. Therefore, when the thrust vectoring is implied, it creates massive drag for such iron mass in the air, consequently, SU-30MKI is unable to sustain its height instead, it starts sinking down. And before, SU-30MKI has completed its Cobra maneuver, the pilot may be looking for ejection button, as dozen of bullets have already been drilled in to its plane by an adversary.

SU-30MKI aircraft implies two Saturn Al-31FP turbofans, which gives good thrust to the aircraft. Yet, the quality of these engines due to Russian origin still remain highly susceptible as compare to RD-93(Advance version of Russian RD-33), Pratt & Whitney or even Rolls Royce. In case of any disruption of the engines, Indians Airforce has no other choice but to send the engines back to Russia to be fixed, rather repairing them at home.

The ability of any aircraft, is exhibited as soon as it can be airborne in real time situation. SU-3MKI needs one minute spacing to take-off. Where as PAF Shaheen has been able to reduce the airborne time of A-5 aircrafts to less then one minute, which are considered to be oldest aircrafts serving today. One minute spacing means, a window of time span for PAF Shaheen to attack and destroy the rest of the SU-30MKI planes getting ready for taxi.

Last but not the least, the man behind the weapon really matters. In some of the recent air exercises held by Indian and US Airforces together like Red Flag 2008. It was found that pilots of SU-30MKIs had less then 100 flying hours, altogether. Whereas PAF Shaheen are far more superior in terms of flying hours and quality of awareness towards the practicality of technology during the war. However, its not far when SU-30MKI pilots would enhance there flying hours, excavate the true potential of this aircraft and use it for there advantage.

The world is undergoing global force-repositioning phase, where every strong nation is getting ready for offensive. It is imperative that air war doctorine of PAF Shaheen should be revised and should put on offensive footing rather then ground support and air interception missions. PAF Shaheen are second to none even now. But much more work has yet to be done by fast forwarding the JF-17 induction and J-10 procurements. PAF Shaheen has to re-establish there objectivity in terms of Pakistan's vision of calling itself "FORT OF ISLAM". PAF Shaheen has to think out of geographic boundaries and have to start working on air superiority and surgical strikes mission in India and in middle eastern fronts.

Pak Mission: SU-30's Cobra Maneuvers - A Treat for PAF's Shaheen

FANBOY ALERT, FANBOY ALERT!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Cobra in real combat? That means BVR is gone and WVR started. Here you are in a big machine going against a much smaller machine and with highly agile WVR missiles you start playing with your energy... In other words... Nice for airshows but in real combat you do not make a circus... You go in, hit hard and move out.


nice analysis sir!
you know its post like the above ones that worries me a lot! :tsk:
i get an impression that if we want to protect our air space from the indian we will have to go for F22. nothing else will do any good to us. they have the Mig21,29, the LCA, the Su30,27, Mirages and what not!!;) ;)
if we have to compare with tem we will have to get F22 and f35, though the later stands a little chance against the lights of the greats like LCA and Su30 :rofl: but the F22 when flown in equal or perhaps more in number then the LCA and Su30 will be able to protect us a bit from the lightining strikes of there birds! :cheesy:
another important point that cannot be ignored that the F22 may well be a match for the LCA in technology but then what about the man behind the machine, they are never going to let our pilots live in peace! :whistle: :chilli:

May Allah Help Us!! Ameen!!

regards!
 
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Hahahaha - “Ignorance is not bliss - it is oblivion”

lol its a biggest mistake to under estimate your enemy - and i seen many pakistani do it - when they say man behind the machine. lol . times they are changing.
even murdak sir once said - indian pilots were amazing - sher ka baccha ( to be precise)
yeh some time - you have pakistani winning some time indian.

dont overestimate your self on the cost of under estimating your rival.
 
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Hahahaha - “Ignorance is not bliss - it is oblivion”

lol its a biggest mistake to under estimate your enemy - and i seen many pakistani do it - when they say man behind the machine. lol . times they are changing.
even murdak sir once said - indian pilots were amazing - sher ka baccha ( to be precise)
yeh some time - you have pakistani winning some time indian.

dont overestimate your self on the cost of under estimating your rival.


i suggest you better have another go at the post:

nice analysis sir!
you know its post like the above ones that worries me a lot!
i get an impression that if we want to protect our air space from the indian we will have to go for F22. nothing else will do any good to us. they have the Mig21,29, the LCA, the Su30,27, Mirages and what not!!
if we have to compare with tem we will have to get F22 and f35, though the later stands a little chance against the lights of the greats like LCA and Su30 but the F22 when flown in equal or perhaps more in number then the LCA and Su30 will be able to protect us a bit from the lightining strikes of there birds!
another important point that cannot be ignored that the F22 may well be a match for the LCA in technology but then what about the man behind the machine, they are never going to let our pilots live in peace!

May Allah Help Us!! Ameen!!

regards

it is quite clear that i am ranking the indian pilots far superior to the PAF ones! anyhow you do not seem to disagree on anyother point and this indicates that you atleast agree with the F22 being on par with LCA :rofl: :lol: :rofl:
i hope most of the members will AGREE with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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i suggest you better have another go at the post:



it is quite clear that i am ranking the indian pilots far superior to the PAF ones! anyhow you do not seem to disagree on anyother point and this indicates that you atleast agree with the F22 being on par with LCA :rofl: :lol: :rofl:
i hope most of the members will AGREE with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

arsalanaslam bro

aaj dawaii nahi li na. ( j.k)

i dont like these sarcasi posts. they just put me off. its so pseudo.

Dude tujh se to main baat hi nahin kar raha tha !!!:pop:
 
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Hi,

Just a question----when and under what condition the cobra manouver be made???
 
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Hi,

Just a question----when and under what condition the cobra manouver be made???
When the pilots want himself to get shot down.Cobra Manvor is quite useless because when you pull it you'll loose quite a bit of air speed and if your hunter is smart he'll slow down his AC and take a shot before the plane even recovers from cobra.
 
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