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South China Sea Forum

US can send some big fishing vessel there to score more point.

1 big fishing vessel, 1 point. If CN go nuts and ram you fishing ships, then just slap a hard sanction on th after TPP to eliminate CN economy :partay:
Don't just talk. Viet should follow his master to patrol the reef of SCS.
 
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did you actually bother to read the article or just quoting the headline when it seems fit you??

Pentagon says Chinese vessels harassed U.S. ship - CNN.com - You quote an 2009 article. LOL, how does the US bitch about the SCS CURRENTLY, while you at it, why don't you quote one in 1980s or even 1950 when China are hostile to the US?

Pentagon: China jet made 'unsafe' move near U.S. plane - CNNPolitics.com - The US protest about Chinese jet being unsafe, would you lodge a complaint if some stuntman start flying loop-de-loop over your home at low altitude?

U.S., Chinese warships come dangerously close - CNNPolitics.com - Again, old article, in 2013, the situation is esculated in 2015 in case if you haven't noticed

Chinese Warships Made ‘Innocent Passage’ Through U.S. Territorial Waters off Alaska - That's an article quote a normal procedure, US cannot protest something that is covered under international law. So if you want to access Panama Canal, how you can do it without entering Panama territorial water? Same thing to Chinese ship in Bering Strait.

at the end of the day, all Chinese can do is protest, maybe you should intercept the US fleet entering your so-called 12nm limit, let's see what will happen?

Navigation is defined as passage of ship. Is conducting military mission considered navigation? China obviously disagrees.



Yes, that's my point. Most of the media points to the keyword of "artificial island" as the basis for legality of US patrol, which is completely false. It is Chinese ownership of the island that US disputes, not the construction.




Wait a minute. Where does it say building island on the high sea is not permitted? Per freedom of the high seas in article 87 specifically states the freedom to construct artificial islands in the same status as the freedom of navigation. Moreover, China is not even building artificial island on the high sea, but conducting land reclamation on the existing island that it claims sovereign over.

Article87
Freedom of the high seas

1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, inter alia, both for coastal and land-locked States:
(a) freedom of navigation;
(b) freedom of overflight;
(c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to Part VI;
(d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;
(e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in section 2;
(f) freedom of scientific research, subject to Parts VI and XIII.
2. These freedoms shall be exercised by all States with due regard for the interests of other States in their exercise of the freedom of the high seas, and also with due regard for the rights under this Convention with respect to activities in the Area.

Maybe you need to check my post again, I had NEVER said Article 87 forbid building Island.

I forgot which one but the article that define "International Waterway" in UNCLOS had explicitly defined any international waterway must be permanently neutral and there could not be any established Military Structure on any international waterway. Hence all international waterway must be demilitarized. It's like Panama Government trying to reclaim island for military use on Panama Canal. It's a violation of international law of the sea.

The Chinese are currently Militarizing the island by reclaiming the land and put military structure in it, the act would have been totally fine if SCS is actually agree upon to be inside China territorial water, but since the island is disputed, and basically only China itself recognize the area is in Chinese territorial water the act itself would be considered a violation to the so called "High Sea" law under UNCLOS.

As I said, either China break away from UNCLOS and start its own law, and then you lose the right to be protected by UNCLOS and the right to protest a la dog eat dog world. Or China comply to what UNCLOS set forth and protest against US aggression, again, you cannot have both.

All right, 3 years younger. I don't care how long has been, US itself just started since 1776. When China travelled through SCS, find, manage their islands, into the Indian ocean. There is nobody America.

lol, in that case, the country "China, People Republic of" had not existed until 1949. Before that is the Republic of China, Before that is Qing Dynasty and before that is another dynasty and all the way to Xie Dynasty in 1600BC. If you count Xie as an extension of modern China, then the "US History" is not simply started from 1776. They started at first American Indian settle in American continent during 16,000 BC.

So if you want to count the 5,000 years history, then the US Native Indian, WHICH IS PART OF US CITIZENS NOW, would have 19,000 years of history.
 
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So if you want to count the 5,000 years history, then the US Native Indian, WHICH IS PART OF US CITIZENS NOW, would have 19,000 years of history.

You should give the Monkey in your ZOO US citizenship, then you'd have longer history then all of humanity. hahahah :yahoo:

did you actually bother to read the article or just quoting the headline when it seems fit you??

Pentagon says Chinese vessels harassed U.S. ship - CNN.com - You quote an 2009 article. LOL, how does the US bitch about the SCS CURRENTLY, while you at it, why don't you quote one in 1980s or even 1950 when China are hostile to the US?

Pentagon: China jet made 'unsafe' move near U.S. plane - CNNPolitics.com - The US protest about Chinese jet being unsafe, would you lodge a complaint if some stuntman start flying loop-de-loop over your home at low altitude?

U.S., Chinese warships come dangerously close - CNNPolitics.com - Again, old article, in 2013, the situation is esculated in 2015 in case if you haven't noticed

Chinese Warships Made ‘Innocent Passage’ Through U.S. Territorial Waters off Alaska - That's an article quote a normal procedure, US cannot protest something that is covered under international law. So if you want to access Panama Canal, how you can do it without entering Panama territorial water? Same thing to Chinese ship in Bering Strait.

at the end of the day, all Chinese can do is protest, maybe you should intercept the US fleet entering your so-called 12nm limit, let's see what will happen?

The only argument is the article is old?

we intercepted you outside of 12nm all the time, US did nothing but bitch about it in the end.
 
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You should give the Monkey in your ZOO US citizenship, then you'd have longer history then all of humanity. hahahah :yahoo:



The only argument is the article is old?

we intercepted you outside of 12nm all the time, US did nothing but bitch about it in the end.

lol, and that's your response??

Anything actually solid to add?
 
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It's Sovremenyy class Taizhou 138 destroyer. The same class used in exercise in Japan Sea which shot Moskit supersonic AShM.
A great warship class imported from Russia.
just slightly smaller than AB flight IIA 9200ton USS Lassen
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okay, there maybe some mistranlation.

China used to deploy Type-053H1/2 in Spratly islands area.
Vietnam Navy always meet them there when challenge the 12nm limit of Johnson South reef ( which Vietnam occupied before 1988 )

10314632_651466081643022_8336046161836152033_n.jpg
 
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Those reefs are useless to us. Unifying sub Mekong region is much more important.

So,just let US fishing ships teach CN a lesson there.:)
So, smart Viet, ask your gov. retreat the soldier from SCS. return the reefs to CHN. The USA gived the benefit(TPP) to u, but u do nothing for your master. Don't believe Viet.:sniper:
 
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Maybe you need to check my post again, I had NEVER said Article 87 forbid building Island.

I forgot which one but the article that define "International Waterway" in UNCLOS had explicitly defined any international waterway must be permanently neutral and there could not be any established Military Structure on any international waterway. Hence all international waterway must be demilitarized. It's like Panama Government trying to reclaim island for military use on Panama Canal. It's a violation of international law of the sea.

The Chinese are currently Militarizing the island by reclaiming the land and put military structure in it, the act would have been totally fine if SCS is actually agree upon to be inside China territorial water, but since the island is disputed, and basically only China itself recognize the area is in Chinese territorial water the act itself would be considered a violation to the so called "High Sea" law under UNCLOS.

As I said, either China break away from UNCLOS and start its own law, and then you lose the right to be protected by UNCLOS and the right to protest a la dog eat dog world. Or China comply to what UNCLOS set forth and protest against US aggression, again, you cannot have both.

You are talking about established Sea Lane, not International Waterway. Be very careful about legal document as different words carry very different implication. Chinese construction are on existing reefs and thus cannot possibly be anywhere near the existing Sea Lanes, or else ships will run aground.
Its ridiculous to suggest China to break away from UNCLOS as none of its action is in violation of the treaty.
 
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You are talking about established Sea Lane, not International Waterway. Be very careful about legal document as different words carry very different implication. Chinese construction are on existing reefs and thus cannot possibly be anywhere near the existing Sea Lanes, or else ships will run aground.
Its ridiculous to suggest China to break away from UNCLOS as none of its action is in violation of the treaty.

Actually, no. Panama Canal is an International Waterway.

In International Law, international waterways are straits, canals, and rivers that connect two areas of the high seas or enable ocean shipping to reach interior ports on international seas, gulfs, or lakes that otherwise would be land-locked. International waterways also may be rivers that serve as international boundaries or traverse successively two or more states. Ships have a right of passage through international waterways. This right is based on customary international law and treaty arrangements.

International Waterways legal definition of International Waterways

International Waterway have the same status as High Sea (International Water) and would see as an extend of the jurisdiction of high seas (Base on the simple principal that the canal, strait and river were connecting two area link to high seas.)

So, I am talking about international water. I just use panama canal as an example. If you are confused, I can use the Principality of Sealand as an example if you like

Under the Law of the Seas, High Seas, and connecting international waterways should not be militarized and should stay permanently neutral. Hence there is in fact a case against China militarizing an island or islands locating in High Seas in the UNCLOS tribunal. While Chinese argue the island is located within the territorial limit but not as in Exclusive Economic Zone of China. (Which would render those islands in the high seas)
 
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Actually, no. Panama Canal is an International Waterway.

In International Law, international waterways are straits, canals, and rivers that connect two areas of the high seas or enable ocean shipping to reach interior ports on international seas, gulfs, or lakes that otherwise would be land-locked. International waterways also may be rivers that serve as international boundaries or traverse successively two or more states. Ships have a right of passage through international waterways. This right is based on customary international law and treaty arrangements.

International Waterways legal definition of International Waterways

International Waterway have the same status as High Sea (International Water) and would see as an extend of the jurisdiction of high seas (Base on the simple principal that the canal, strait and river were connecting two area link to high seas.)

So, I am talking about international water. I just use panama canal as an example. If you are confused, I can use the Principality of Sealand as an example if you like

Under the Law of the Seas, High Seas, and connecting international waterways should not be militarized and should stay permanently neutral. Hence there is in fact a case against China militarizing an island or islands locating in High Seas in the UNCLOS tribunal. While Chinese argue the island is located within the territorial limit but not as in Exclusive Economic Zone of China. (Which would render those islands in the high seas)

Man you are grasping on straw. South China Sea encompass a 1,400,000 sq mi area and you are comparing it to a 33meter wide canal? No one in a sane mind would classify the South China Sea as a "strait, canal, or river".
 
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You guys Chinese here have so big mouth because you think war, if happen, will be far far away from your warm bed and never touch your hot bows of noodle. That the main reason you feel free to bully your smaller neighboors, and keep talking nice words but bad actions on sea, ignoring international laws.

In fact this year is just nothing happen, but end of next year 2016 or early of 2017, you will see the consequence of your bad actions in past years. Bad things starts in Subi reef but terrible things will happen in Senkaku island, then main course will be served in mainland. You are on your own, now. China vs the whole world
 
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Well, now they have a good reason to put even more there. See their office statement today:

"If any country thinks that, through some gimmicks, they will be able to interfere with or even prevent China from engaging in reasonable, legitimate and legal activities in its own territories, I want to suggest those countries give up such fantasy," ministry spokesman Lu Kang said.

"In fact, if relevant parties insist on creating tensions in the region and making trouble out of nothing, it may force China to draw the conclusion that we need to strengthen and hasten the buildup of our relevant capabilities. I advise the U.S. not to create such a self-fulfilling prophecy."

He is referring to China's navy, not the islands. The Islands are stationary aircraft carriers, that is to say they are sinkable (resurfacing) and sitting ducks to a country like the US. They are more symbolic against the US, but useful at any point short of open conflict with the US.

Joseph Nye interview: China's artificial isles are vulnerable, fixed targets- Nikkei Asian Review


Basically if China is attempting to arm these islands up against the US for open conflict, it's a futile task, plus it will alienate other SCS countries further.

I could see China using the US as an excuse though in order to build local superiority against other claimants. Both China and the US have ways to capitalize depending on their goals.
 
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He is referring to China's navy, not the islands. The Islands are stationary aircraft carriers, that is to say they are sinkable (resurfacing) and sitting ducks to a country like the US. They are more symbolic against the US, but useful at any point short of open conflict with the US.

Joseph Nye interview: China's artificial isles are vulnerable, fixed targets- Nikkei Asian Review



It can be interpreted in many ways. It could mean China is ready to withdraw from their earlier stand that the islands would not be used for military purpose, as Xi announced during his trip to the US. In any case, a island is harder to sink than an aircraft carrier.
 
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The Islands are stationary aircraft carriers, that is to say they are sinkable (resurfacing) and sitting ducks to a country like the US.

Very much so, they can't be resupplied quickly, have limited supplies themselves, small outposts are pickets that warn a larger force and attempt to hold-out against or harass an opposing side. Still, having a lot of smaller islands engaged in an A2/AD type strategy can bring a rain of AShM to bear quickly and with devastating consequences. They wont survive a conflict, but they wont be brushed aside without troubles either. Right now China doesn't have enough to implement a large scale A2/AD strategy, so that's still an advantage the US can press.

As for small islands themselves.
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Hardly as if taking on islands, defended or otherwise, is alien to the USAF and USN. If expanded, as in more islands are established for military purposes beyond a handful of airfields and artillery guns, they can represent a significant asymmetric threat. Right now they are not, but the situation is ongoing and dynamic. Expect more activity from both sides.
 
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