Some information wanted from Israelis on board

[AUz]

Hey, so recently, I have been becoming quite involved in Israel-Palestine issue....

I have read a lot about the conflict and read both narratives..I might be coming to Israel for one of my classes..

With that context, I just wanted to ask couple of questions....

Please don't troll or anything...I want answers from Israelis and I have no malign intentions..I just want to learn Israeli side and remove some confusions..


So first question...

Is Israel a "Jewish state?" or a secular nation-state for Jewish peoples?

I have talked to people and many Israelis intermix these two things...Apparently both look same but under International Law, both are entirely different.

So @500 @Adir-mz @Natan @nirreich @Archdemon and other Israeli guys reading this...Can you please clarify this for me? How do you guys see the above question? I'd like all of your perspectives even they differ with each other.

Also, if you think that Israel is a "Jewish state," can you please tell me on what basis that claim is made? I mean, does the Israeli constitution say this? Are laws in Israel based on Jewish laws? or what exactly is there to make Israel a "Jewish" state (other than Jewish majority)?

For example, in Pakistan, our constitution clearly says that no laws can be made against Qur'an and Sunnah, and that Pakistan is an "Islamic state" etc..Anything similar from Israeli national documents? (Constitution, declaration of Independence documents, Supreme Court documents etc)

Your responses are welcomed

Non-Israeli members: It is requested that you don't comment in this thread. I just want to talk to Israeli people to clarify some things

 

[500]

Israel does not have constitution so what is Jewish state is not defined.

1) There are 4 recognized religions in Israel (Jewish, Muslim, Christian and Druze) and they are all equal.
2) There are 2 official languages: Hebrew and Arabic.
3) Food in state owned organizations must be Kosher. But Kosher foods suits to Muslims and Christians as well.

The only advantage of Jews is that they are allowed migrate from other countries and granted the Israeli citizenship.

 

[Natan]

Is Israel a "Jewish state?" or a secular nation-state for Jewish peoples?

Israel is a Jewish state, and it is a secular nation-state for Jews at the same time.

As 500 said, Israel doesn't have constitution. Mainly because Jews do not agree on the meaning of the words 'Jew' and 'Jewish' - two words that would have to be written in any Israeli constitution. The encouraged repatriation of Jews from around the world to Israel ensures that Jewish majority in Israel remains.

 

[AUz]

Israel is a Jewish state, and it is a secular nation-state for Jews at the same time.

As 500 said, Israel doesn't have constitution. Mainly because Jews do not agree on the meaning of the words 'Jew' and 'Jewish' - two words that would have to be written in any Israeli constitution. The encouraged repatriation of Jews from around the world to Israel ensures that Jewish majority in Israel remains.

Sorry man, but this can not be true at the same time as far as I know. Specially when discussing this issue in the pretax of International Law etc.

For Israel to be a "Jewish state," it would have to be based in Judaism/Jewish Law etc...and as @500 clarified, this is not the case.

As of now, what I understand, is that Israel is a nation-state for Jewish people. Like Turkey is a nation-state for Turkish people (even though Turks are mainly Muslim people, Turkey isn't an "Islamic state" like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and so on)

@500 Thank You for the response, sir.

I'll wait a little more and see other perspectives on this question...and then I'll move on to other questions.

 

[Natan]

For Israel to be a "Jewish state," it would have to be based in Judaism/Jewish Law etc...

Wrong assumption leads you to wrong conclusions.

 

[AUz]

Wrong assumption leads you to wrong conclusions.

No, I am talking in the context of International Law.

I am kind of confused. Why exactly you claim Israel to be a "Jewish" state? (Other than the fact that it is majority Jews and gives citizenship to any Jew)

 

[Natan]

I have no intention to discuss it in the context of International Law. It is a Jewish state because the Jewish majority consider it a Jewish state.

 

[Falcon29]

I have no intention to discuss it in the context of International Law. It is a Jewish state because the Jewish majority consider it a Jewish state.

What does that mean? And we could say the the United States should be a christian state because the christian majority considers it so. Although it remains a secular state, so tell us what a Jewish state is.

Are there any other examples in the world of a secular/religious state?

 

[KingMamba]

Wrong assumption leads you to wrong conclusions.

Well wouldn't the orthodox Jews agree with his definition and say you are making wrong assumptions?

 

[Natan]

Well wouldn't the orthodox Jews agree with his definition and say you are making wrong assumptions?

Of course they would, at least some of them.
But Israel lives with a compromise between secular Jews and Tradition Keepers. Hardline orthodox Jews who doesn't agree with this compromise can wait for their messiah somewhere else.

 

[Zahal]

It's a homeland for the Jews where every Jew around the world has a country to call his own if he/her wishes to do so. It is the birthplace of the Jewish people.

That is the definition of the Jewish state. No constitution and no laws describing it as such.

The legal system is mixed between common law, laws from previous empires (British, Ottoman) and religious law Jewish/Muslim/Christian. There is Sharia law for things like divorce etc.

It is recognised by most of the civilised world as the Jewish state.

Of course it goes without saying that views to the contrary espoused by the yank-born Arab who pretends to be a 'palestinian', are completely worthless.

 

[ResurgentIran]

It's a homeland for the Jews where every Jew around the world has a country to call his own if he/her wishes to do so. It is the birthplace of the Jewish people.

That is the definition of the Jewish state. No constitution and no laws describing it as such.

The legal system is mixed between common law, laws from previous empires (British, Ottoman) and religious law Jewish/Muslim/Christian. There is Sharia law for things like divorce etc.

It is recognised by most of the civilised world as the Jewish state.

Of course it goes without saying that views to the contrary espoused by the yank-born Arab who pretends to be a 'palestinian', are completely worthless.

What about the Arab citizens of Israel
Can a state be Jewish and democratic at the same time?

 

[Zahal]

What about the Arab citizens of Israel
Can a state be Jewish and democratic at the same time?

Well, we've managed to be for the last 66 years - so that should answer your question.

Of course the ISLAMIC Republic of Iran doesn't quite afford its citizens equal rights or indeed democracy.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Well, we've managed to be for the last 66 years - so that should answer your question.

Of course the ISLAMIC Republic of Iran doesn't quite afford its citizens equal rights or indeed democracy.

Hypothetically if Arabs were to grow into a majority in Israel one day. Just hypothetical scenario so humor me. lol
Can you still call Israel a Jewish state?

 

[Zahal]

Hypothetically if Arabs were to grow into a majority in Israel one day. Just hypothetical scenario so humor me. lol
Can you still call Israel a Jewish state?

It was founded as a Jewish state.

You may as well ask the same question of every country. If Muslims became a majority in America, would it still be the land of the free and a symbol of democracy?

If Chinese outnumbered British people in the UK, would it still be a democracy or a Communist regime?

Pointless question. It was founded as a state for the Jews and that's its roots.

Arabs are welcome as long as they understand that it is the Jewish state and as such it's there primarily to protect the Jewish people and give them a home.

If they have a problem with that, they are more than welcome to pick one of the 21 Arab nations in the region to settle in.