Saudi Arabia's Supreme Court ends flogging as punishment

[Aspen]

Shariah or no shariah, flogging for certain crimes isn't a bad thing I would say. Some pricks really need a stern punishment and humiliation. Antisocial behaviour is probably zero currently - expect that to change now unfortunately.

It was a good deterrent to bad behavior. Expect society to become more immoral.

 

[Bengal71]

It is a part of the ongoing judicial and general reforms in KSA. I welcome it as flogging as a punishment in KSA was more symbolic than anything else. However now that KSA is opening up and investing in tourism in a serious and dedicated manner (already in the top 15 of most visited countries in the world and with ample potential to reach the top 10) and reforming in general, it is bad PR for most of the snowflakes/liberals/all types of punishments are a crime type of crowd in the world, in particular in the West. Similar to how many executions in KSA now being performed by a shooting squad rather than the more humane but more "dangerous/scary/controversial" decapitation by a sword. That and the 2-3 Afro-Arab hereditary "executioner families" (their new generations/offspring) losing interest in that profession.


Anyway more obsession about KSA's internal judiciary laws as usual even though KSA has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, nowhere near close to the highest number of executions on an annual basis (184 people in a nation of 35 million - the horror) nor was flagellation in KSA ever used as anything more than a humiliation type of punishment rather than as a punishment that was/is intended to cause grave or serious physical harm. When somebody farts in KSA it becomes world news. Nothing new, either.

Lashing an Iranian for desecrating the Holy Mosque in Madinah, Saudi Arabia by urinating inside the mosque.​

A long list of countries from Europe, the Americas, Africa to Asia have been using flag (in its severe form unlike in KSA in the past) and are still using it today.

In countries like Singapore and Malaysia it is a legacy of the British and was/is much more serious.

No need to mention the likes of Iran either and many majority Muslim nations.

I suggest that you rather worry about Erdogan/Turkey jailing the highest number of journalists in the world rather than beating a dead horse. I also suggest to deal with your obsession, it is getting out of hand. You are worse than even the worst Iranian Wilayat al-Faqih regime worshipper on PDF to date.

Is there a way to give this guy some medication or help on PDF for him not to flood every KSA/Arab-related thread on PDF with his one-liners and trolling?

@Slav Defence kindly take a look at his recent user history. I can see, in thread where I have been tagged, that 2-3 users have already told him exactly the same.



70% of KSA's population is below 30 years of age (one of the youngest populations in the world) and a large portion of those have adopted a liberal stance in terms of punishments and other walks of life. Half of the population (women) are probably in favor of abolishing capital punishment as well.

KSA is reaching the liberal/post patriarchal/traditional state that some Western states reached (in Western Europe) starting in the late 1960's and 1970's. Just in a different manner and context. With the increasing globalization etc. and people being familiar with what Western propaganda can do in terms of PR damage (all kind of ridiculous notions about KSA) and people prefer to get away with such laws.

I am in principle not against the removal of flogging as a punishment but I know where this is going to go next - more liberalization etc. It is an inevitable development seen across the entire world but down the road I suspect that there will be a backlash if things go too far as they have in the West in recent decades.

Anyway what matters to me is that the low crime levels continue and the judicial system improves and ensures the rights for everyone involved in a criminal case. KSA has its struggles there like any country but things are moving in the right direction. As the older generation of judges dies/retires, new generations (with different views) will take over (that process has already begun) which will create a further liberalization of the criminal judiciary in KSA. Although I am fairly sure that the capital punishment will remain for the foreseeable future as well as tough laws on drugs, murder, terrorism, armed robbery, rape, violence, attempted murder and other serious crimes.

That and political reforms and a gradual transformation into a constitutional monarchy.

Eh, reforms my foot. It's just to appease those westerners who will come as tourists.

Flogging/lashing is a Shariah prescribed punishment. Beheading by a sword is also prescribed by Shariah and far more humane than any other form of execution. Any Muslim country that can withstand Western pressure should uphold them. Saudi managed to withstand the pressure all these years and can do so if they want. It's because of MBS that they are walking back these laws.

Also flogging in Shariah has more to do with shaming criminals, it is not meant to inflict physical pain and harm. Saudi implementation of flogging without causing pain is the correct implementation of Shariah, Iranian one on the other hand got it wrong.

 

[xenon54 out]

No they should use the ottoman impalement instead

Good that you guys finally take the first baby steps to come out of the feudal time but there is still a lot work tho, keep up the spirit.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Good that you guys finally take the first baby steps to come out of the feudal time but there is still a lot work tho, keep up the spirit.

Turks are some of the last people on the planet to teach other people about the judiciary. I would understand the criticism if it came from citizens of Western Europe, in particular countries like Denmark or Sweden but this is getting a bit pathetic.

In particular as other more developed nations than Turkey (in terms of HDI and GDP per capita) like Singapore and many others have been and continue to use flogging/canning as a punishment.

But yeah, pretty ironic to keep beating a dead horse (Khashoggi) when Turkey jails the largest amount of journalists in the world or at least used to do so not long ago.

Anyway another Turk obsessed with Arabs on PDF, what is new?

 

[gangsta_rap]

I like flogging people too

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Eh, reforms my foot. It's just to appease those westerners who will come as tourists.

Flogging/lashing is a Shariah prescribed punishment. Beheading by a sword is also prescribed by Shariah and far more humane than any other form of execution. Any Muslim country that can withstand Western pressure should uphold them. Saudi managed to withstand the pressure all these years and can do so if they want. It's because of MBS that they are walking back these laws.

Also flogging in Shariah has more to do with shaming criminals, it is not meant to inflict physical pain and harm. Saudi implementation of flogging without causing pain is the correct implementation of Shariah, Iranian one on the other hand got it wrong.

Has nothing to do with "Western tourists". If KSA wanted to "appease" Westerners, it would have followed the example of other GCC states ages ago or Iran next door during the Shah.

The changes are due to the society changing and the enormous youth population as well as a natural development towards more liberal values seen across the entire world. That and the need for judicial and other reforms, in particular the removal of almost all of those 40 + year old idiotic laws that came into practice in KSA after the Grand Mosque Seizure in 1979 and the "Islamic" Revolution in Iran next door and other political events of that era (Afghan-Soviet War) and King Fahd being a weak king in this regard and appeasing religious hardliners.

Now things are slowly moving back to normality and the vast majority of the people are happy about this and have been calling for this for ages.

Hence there being zero controversy with all those many changes in KSA on all fronts in recent years despite what some ignorant people where claiming (civil war and other such nonsense ) including on PDF, lol.

As for beheading with a sword being much more humane and painless (scientifically proven as well) than a shooting squad or lethal injection, that is truth, but tell that to the hordes of Muslims on PDF or elsewhere that keep crying about this form of punishment, or the Westerners and others who link it to some slow Mexican or ISIS cartel beheadings with a blunt knife.

Anyway KSA cannot please and should not try to please every Muslim or non-Muslim out there. Prior to the reforms people were complying that the old clergy had too much power in KSA, now with all the many reforms (things that those same people have been crying about for years), KSA is turning into some liberal Zionist whatever state.

In the real world what matters is what the people in KSA think, belief and want and that the crime levels continue to be as low as they are and have been (some of the lowest in the world) and that the trust between people is upheld and that KSA continues to reform and move in the right direction and tries to corrects its ills and problems. We won't be able to satisfy everyone and people, in particular Muslims, will always have strong feelings about what KSA is doing. So in this regard it is mission impossible.

 

[Azadkashmir]

shariah what a joke how bout flogging princes fo gay behaviour and alcoholism.

But beheading is a must for economic crimes and monetary crimes.

like selling oil for a printed dollar and only for dollar and imf loan riba.
shariah is not about the bull shit everyone commonly links it to but it is most related to economic laws and monetary . gold and silver coins is shariah.

If jesus was alive he won't be preaching and saying oh don't worry brother god forgives for your sins because you only did a false flag and got millions killed and riba. he be going all out with the whip, maybe with some advance whip with stun gun attached with volt/amp meter to tell you how much current is travelling through that sinful body, so one can tune it fine.

 

[Salmanov]

Good that you guys finally take the first baby steps to come out of the feudal time but there is still a lot work tho, keep up the spirit.

Yeah turk teaches Arabs about feudalism

 

[Bengal71]

Has nothing to do with "Western tourists". If KSA wanted to "appease" Westerners, it would have followed the example of other GCC states ages ago or Iran next door during the Shah.

The changes are due to the society changing and the enormous youth population as well as a natural development towards more liberal values seen across the entire world. That and the need for judicial and other reforms, in particular the removal of almost all of those 40 + year old idiotic laws that came into practice in KSA after the Grand Mosque Seizure in 1979 and the "Islamic" Revolution in Iran next door and other political events of that era (Afghan-Soviet War) and King Fahd being a weak king in this regard and appeasing religious hardliners.

Now things are slowly moving back to normality and the vast majority of the people are happy about this and have been calling for this for ages.

Hence there being zero controversy with all those many changes in KSA on all fronts in recent years despite what some ignorant people where claiming (civil war and other such nonsense ) including on PDF, lol.

As for beheading with a sword being much more humane and painless (scientifically proven as well) than a shooting squad or lethal injection, that is truth, but tell that to the hordes of Muslims on PDF or elsewhere that keep crying about this form of punishment, or the Westerners and others who link it to some slow Mexican or ISIS cartel beheadings with a blunt knife.

Anyway KSA cannot please and should not try to please every Muslim or non-Muslim out there. Prior to the reforms people were complying that the old clergy had too much power in KSA, now with all the many reforms (things that those same people have been crying about for years), KSA is turning into some liberal Zionist whatever state.

In the real world what matters is what the people in KSA think, belief and want and that the crime levels continue to be as low as they are and have been (some of the lowest in the world) and that the trust between people is upheld and that KSA continues to reform and move in the right direction and tries to corrects its ills and problems. We won't be able to satisfy everyone and people, in particular Muslims, will always have strong feelings about what KSA is doing. So in this regard it is mission impossible.

I don't care what KSA does in it's own country, it's their country their choice. So no pleasing is required. It doesn't bother or irritate me at all as it's not my country.

I am speaking about the reason behind the changes. While you are saying these are 'reforms', there may be other reasons too. Opening up KSA for tourism is one of the reasons, that's what I think. KSA is a Shariah state with clergy having a lot of power and influence. Repelling any law that is ordained in the Shariah is not a reform in a Shariah/Islamic state. Many ulama consider replacing Shariah law equal to Kufr.

Anyway, all the best.

 

[Serpentine]

Journalist who received death threats after uncovering local corruption found strangled in canal

I like how you are ready to even bash your own country to support Saudi Arabia and whitewash any criticism around it.

 

[HAIDER]

I like how you are ready to even bash your own country to support Saudi Arabia and whitewash any criticism around it.

lolllll...

 

[BATMAN]

I like how you are ready to even bash your own country to support Saudi Arabia and whitewash any criticism around it.

I was simply pointing out hypocrisy of your disciples.

Bashing of Pakistan was what in 2019 Imran Khan did sitting in lap of Khamenei... where he blamed Pakistan for sending terrorist to Iran, for which he had no proof, but what i provided is truth.
Next bashing was when same Imran Khan sitting in lap of Trump in 2019 said something similar.
Unlike your disciples on pdf. Your presence as well is a proof of where lies interests of pdf and they surely are in exact opposite to those of Pakistan.
You probably as well missed how your disciples were defending Iran, when you criminals tried to infect Pakistan with COVID of course, with help of brother in law of Imran Khan, aka human smuggler.
if you call pointing out at criminals and traitors, as bashing than be it's very small portion of what they deserve.

 

[BATMAN]

lolllll...

Don't lol, ask your Iranian masters to give you a business contract, same as they have given to their friend Kulbhoshan Yadev.

It's better for Iranian lovers, to just stick to the subject matter.... if you want to re-open the case of murder Saudi jurnolist in Turkey, than be my guest.

 

[Numerous]

It is a part of the ongoing judicial and general reforms in KSA. I welcome it as flogging as a punishment in KSA was more symbolic than anything else. However now that KSA is opening up and investing in tourism in a serious and dedicated manner (already in the top 15 of most visited countries in the world and with ample potential to reach the top 10) and reforming in general, it is bad PR for most of the snowflakes/liberals/all types of punishments are a crime type of crowd in the world, in particular in the West. Similar to how many executions in KSA now being performed by a shooting squad rather than the more humane but more "dangerous/scary/controversial" decapitation by a sword. That and the 2-3 Afro-Arab hereditary "executioner families" (their new generations/offspring) losing interest in that profession.


Anyway more obsession about KSA's internal judiciary laws as usual even though KSA has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, nowhere near close to the highest number of executions on an annual basis (184 people in a nation of 35 million - the horror) nor was flagellation in KSA ever used as anything more than a humiliation type of punishment rather than as a punishment that was/is intended to cause grave or serious physical harm. When somebody farts in KSA it becomes world news. Nothing new, either.

Lashing an Iranian for desecrating the Holy Mosque in Madinah, Saudi Arabia by urinating inside the mosque.​

A long list of countries from Europe, the Americas, Africa to Asia have been using flag (in its severe form unlike in KSA in the past) and are still using it today.

In countries like Singapore and Malaysia it is a legacy of the British and was/is much more serious.

No need to mention the likes of Iran either and many majority Muslim nations.

I suggest that you rather worry about Erdogan/Turkey jailing the highest number of journalists in the world rather than beating a dead horse. I also suggest to deal with your obsession, it is getting out of hand. You are worse than even the worst Iranian Wilayat al-Faqih regime worshipper on PDF to date.

Is there a way to give this guy some medication or help on PDF for him not to flood every KSA/Arab-related thread on PDF with his one-liners and trolling?

@Slav Defence kindly take a look at his recent user history. I can see, in thread where I have been tagged, that 2-3 users have already told him exactly the same.



70% of KSA's population is below 30 years of age (one of the youngest populations in the world) and a large portion of those have adopted a liberal stance in terms of punishments and other walks of life. Half of the population (women) are probably in favor of abolishing capital punishment as well.

KSA is reaching the liberal/post patriarchal/traditional state that some Western states reached (in Western Europe) starting in the late 1960's and 1970's. Just in a different manner and context. With the increasing globalization etc. and people being familiar with what Western propaganda can do in terms of PR damage (all kind of ridiculous notions about KSA) and people prefer to get away with such laws.

I am in principle not against the removal of flogging as a punishment but I know where this is going to go next - more liberalization etc. It is an inevitable development seen across the entire world but down the road I suspect that there will be a backlash if things go too far as they have in the West in recent decades.

Anyway what matters to me is that the low crime levels continue and the judicial system improves and ensures the rights for everyone involved in a criminal case. KSA has its struggles there like any country but things are moving in the right direction. As the older generation of judges dies/retires, new generations (with different views) will take over (that process has already begun) which will create a further liberalization of the criminal judiciary in KSA. Although I am fairly sure that the capital punishment will remain for the foreseeable future as well as tough laws on drugs, murder, terrorism, armed robbery, rape, violence, attempted murder and other serious crimes.

That and political reforms and a gradual transformation into a constitutional monarchy.

Allah (swt) says in the Qur'an:

The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.

https://quran.com/24/2

MBS stops a punishment which is prescribed by Allah (swt). Yet you welcome it? Do you worship Allah (swt) or do you worship MBS?

It is quite a shame that you have taken such a stance. You have in your picture a map of the Islamic caliphate yet you support a man who takes away Islam from society. If you want to support such things then remove your picture and change your name because Muslims built that empire, not arab nationalists who have rarely ever achieved anything and more often than not have led their countries to ruin time after time again.

I remember having a conversation with you before and you were defending one of MBS's decision that time too but you said something along the lines of that you would not support something against Islam. Yet here you are, doing just that and you even acknowledge that it will lead to more de-islamisation of your country and yet you still support it.

Do you not have any fear of Allah (swt) at all? Ramadan has started and Muslims try to better themselves. Yet you're here supporting the removal of one of Allah's punishments from society.

Remember the words of the man who carved out a big chunk of that empire in your picture:

"Verily, we were a disgraceful people and Allah honored us with Islam, so if we seek honor from other than Islam, then Allah will humiliate us." - Umar ibn Al Khattab(RA)

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Allah (swt) says in the Qur'an:

The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.

https://quran.com/24/2

MBS stops a punishment which is prescribed by Allah (swt). Yet you welcome it? Do you worship Allah (swt) or do you worship MBS?

It is quite a shame that you have taken such a stance. You have in your picture a map of the Islamic caliphate yet you support a man who takes away Islam from society. If you want to support such things then remove your picture and change your name because Muslims built that empire, not arab nationalists who have rarely ever achieved anything and more often than not have led their countries to ruin time after time again.

I remember having a conversation with you before and you were defending one of MBS's decision that time too but you said something along the lines of that you would not support something against Islam. Yet here you are, doing just that and you even acknowledge that it will lead to more de-islamisation of your country and yet you still support it.

Do you not have any fear of Allah (swt) at all? Ramadan has started and Muslims try to better themselves. Yet you're here supporting the removal of one of Allah's punishments from society.

Remember the words of the man who carved out a big chunk of that empire in your picture:

"Verily, we were a disgraceful people and Allah honored us with Islam, so if we seek honor from other than Islam, then Allah will humiliate us." - Umar ibn Al Khattab(RA)

First of all don't twist my sentences. I wrote "in principle" and then I wrote the reasons for that. Secondly you are not an Islamic scholar, nor am I for that matter, so it makes zero sense to put such black and white arguments in front of me when there are numerous schools of thought in Islam with varying degrees and interpretations of Sharia law in terms of judicial punishments, after all this part of Sharia law is overall very small compared to the rest of it.

Thirdly those caliphates and empires were Arab and Muslim. There is no contradiction here. Nor do I subscribe to the Ba'ath ideology. Those same Muslims that you and I take pride in where the foremost Arab patriots and I am that as well an Arab patriot who openly talks about the necessity and gains of closer Arab cooperation in the political, economic and every other sphere in life. This is a feeling that every sane Arab shares regardless of ideology, religion, sect or worldview. What such commonly held views in the Arab world (20 + countries and 500 million people) have to do with some failed policies of the Ba'ath Party, Nasserists and other failed political projects, I have no idea about. Nor is it against the teachings of Islam to have such views.

Maybe it would be a good thing to tell people what that discussion was about. It was a discussion about music concerts.

Unlike you (at least it appears to be the case) I am not blind to the ground realities and what has been going on in the world and the power/influence that the West and its culture/beliefs have. Maybe if fellow Muslims had not been demonizing KSA's application of Sharia in the criminal sphere, more locals would be embolden to support the old status quo.

The Arab world is the cradle of civilization and obviously that quotation is religious in nature and not historical. Arabs/the Arab world has a glorious pre-Islamic and Islamic history and there are no contradictions in this regard either as long as you leave religious aspects out of the discussion, even though monotheism originated in the Arab world and even though many Arabs, pre-Islam, were monotheists whether Hanifs, Christians or Jews.

Anyway let me ask you a thing, since KSA/MBS is such a bad guy and some imaginary anti-Muslim entity, how come KSA is still the most Islamic country in terms of its practices and applications and that too in Islam's genuine spirit unlike terrorist entities in the past and present?

Moreover if you accuse me of not having fear for Allah (swt), I can ask the same question too you given that you live in the UK, one of the most immoral (from an literal Islamic interpretation at least) countries on the face of the planet even though you most likely have the financial ability and will (if you really wanted) to move to a more Islamic nation?

So it is very easy to throw mud at each other but I understand that you have a special interest/obsession about KSA, MBS and my person on PDF even though you could preach (100 times more) to people (your own compatriots) or regional entities and their people who are much worse on this front. Yet I have not seen that once here.

Anyway each to his own. Allah (swt) is the best judge. I have a clear conscious