What's new

Saudi Arabia’s dream of becoming the dominant Arab and Muslim power in the world has gone down

monitor

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
8,570
Reaction score
7
Country
Bangladesh
Location
Bangladesh
Saudi Arabia’s dream of becoming the dominant Arab and Muslim power in the world has gone down in flames
Saudi Arabia’s military pressure on Assad served only to make him seek more help from Russia, precipitating intervention which the US was not prepared to oppose
saudi-arabia-prince-mohammad-bin-salman.gif

Deputy Crown Prince and Defence Minister Prince Mohammed bin Salman is the most powerful figure in Saudi decision making Getty Images
As recently as two years ago, Saudi Arabia’s half century-long effort to establish itself as the main power among Arab and Islamic states looked as if it was succeeding. A US State Department paper sent by former Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, in 2014 and published by Wikileaks spoke of the Saudis and Qataris as rivals competing “to dominate the Sunni world”.

A year later in December 2015, the German foreign intelligence service BND was so worried about the growing influence of Saudi Arabia that it took the extraordinary step of producing a memo, saying that “the previous cautious diplomatic stance of older leading members of the royal family is being replaced by an impulsive policy of intervention”.

An embarrassed German government forced the BND to recant, but over the last year its fears about the destabilising impact of more aggressive Saudi policies were more than fulfilled. What it did not foresee was the speed with which Saudi Arabia would see its high ambitions defeated or frustrated on almost every front. But in the last year Saudi Arabia has seen its allies in Syrian civil war lose their last big urban centre in east Aleppo. Here, at least, Saudi intervention was indirect but in Yemen direct engagement of the vastly expensive Saudi military machine has failed to produce a victory. Instead of Iranian influence being curtailed by a more energetic Saudi policy, the exact opposite has happened. In the last OPEC meeting, the Saudis agreed to cut crude production while Iran raised output, something Riyadh had said it would always reject.

Turkey releases video of air strikes on more than 100 Isis targets in Syria after Istanbul nightclub attack
In the US, the final guarantor of the continued rule of the House of Saud, President Obama allowed himself to be quoted as complaining about the convention in Washington of treating Saudi Arabia as a friend and ally. At a popular level, there is growing hostility to Saudi Arabia reflected in the near unanimous vote in Congress to allow families of 9/11 victims to sue the Saudi government as bearing responsibility for the attack.

Under the mercurial guidance of Deputy Crown Prince and Defence Minister Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the most powerful figure in Saudi decision making, Saudi foreign policy became more militaristic and nationalistic after his 80 year old father Salman became king on 23 January 2015. Saudi military intervention in Yemen followed, as did increased Saudi assistance to a rebel alliance in Syria in which the most powerful fighting force was Jabhat al-Nusra, formerly the Syrian affiliate of al-Qaeda.

Nothing has gone well for the Saudis in Yemen and Syria. The Saudis apparently expected the Houthis to be defeated swiftly by pro-Saudi forces, but after fifteen months of bombing they and their ally, former President Saleh, still hold the capital Sanaa and northern Yemen. The prolonged bombardment of the Arab world’s poorest country by the richest has produced a humanitarian catastrophe in which at least 60 per cent of the 25 million Yemeni population do not get enough to eat or drink.

The enhanced Saudi involvement in Syria in 2015 on the side of the insurgents had similarly damaging and unexpected consequences. The Saudis had succeeded Qatar as the main Arab supporter of the Syrian insurgency in 2013 in the belief that their Syrian allies could defeat President Bashar al-Assad or lure the US into doing so for them. In the event, greater military pressure on Assad served only to make him seek more help from Russia and Iran and precipitated Russian military intervention in September 2015 which the US was not prepared to oppose.

Prince Mohammed bin Salman is being blamed inside and outside the Kingdom for impulsive misjudgments that have brought failure or stalemate. On the economic front, his Vision 2030 project whereby Saudi Arabia is to become less wholly dependent on oil revenues and more like a normal non-oil state attracted scepticism mixed with derision from the beginning. It is doubtful if there will be much change in the patronage system whereby a high proportion of oil revenues are spent on employing Saudis regardless of their qualifications or willingness to work.

Protests by Saudi Arabia’s ten million-strong foreign work force, a third of the 30 million population, because they have not been paid can be ignored or crushed by floggings and imprisonment. The security of the Saudi state is not threatened.

ALEPPO BEFORE THE SYRIAN CIVIL WAR
aleppo-before.jpg

Aleppo before the Syrian Civil War
A man crosses a street in Aleppo, December 12, 2009 Reuters
aleppo-before-1.jpg

Aleppo before the Syrian Civil WarA vendor sits inside an antique shop in al-Jdeideh neighbourhood, in the Old City of Aleppo, December 12, 2009 Reuters


The danger for the rulers of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the other Gulf states is rather that hubris and wishful thinking have tempted them to try to do things well beyond their strength. None of this is new and the Gulf oil states have been increasing their power in the Arab and Muslim worlds since the nationalist regimes in Egypt, Syria and Jordan were defeated by Israel in 1967. They found – and Saudi Arabia is now finding the same thing – that militaristic nationalism works well to foster support for rulers under pressure so long as they can promise victory, but delegitimises them when they suffered defeat.

Previously Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states had worked through allies and proxies but this restraint ended with the popular uprisings of 2011. Qatar and later Saudi Arabia shifted towards supporting regime change. Revolutions transmuted into counter-revolutions with a strong sectarian cutting edge in countries like Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Bahrain where there were Sunni and non-Sunni populations.

Critics of Saudi and Qatari policies often demonise them as cunning and effective, but their most striking characteristic is their extreme messiness and ignorance of real conditions on the ground. In 2011, Qatar believed that Assad could be quickly driven from power just like Muamar Gaddafi in Libya. When this did not happen they pumped in money and weapons willy-nilly while hoping that the US could be persuaded to intervene militarily to overthrow Assad as Nato had done in Libya.

Experts on in Syria argue about the extent to which the Saudis and the Qataris knowingly funded Islamic State and various al-Qaeda clones. The answer seems to be that they did not know, and often did not care, exactly who they were funding and that, in any case, it often came from wealthy individuals and not from the Saudi government or intelligence services.

The mechanism whereby Saudi money finances extreme jihadi groups was explained in an article by Carlotta Gall in the New York Times in December on how the Saudis had bankrolled the Taliban after their defeat in 2001. The article cites the former Taliban Finance Minister, Agha Jan Motasim, as explaining in an interview how he would travel to Saudi Arabia to raise large sums of money from private individuals which was then covertly transferred to Afghanistan. Afghan officials are quoted as saying that a recent offensive by 40,000 Taliban cost foreign donors $1 billion.

The attempt by Saudi Arabia and Gulf oil states to achieve hegemony in the Arab and Sunni Muslim worlds has proved disastrous for almost everybody. The capture of east Aleppo by the Syrian Army and the likely fall of Mosul to the Iraqi Army means defeat for that the Sunni Arabs in a great swathe of territory stretching from Iran to the Mediterranean. Largely thanks to their Gulf benefactors, they are facing permanent subjection to hostile governments.

 
Saudis are/were never going to dominate the Sunni Muslim world. This article is just for keeping the Anti-Sauds happy. ;)

U know what, bro....I m lost in these photos...I just can't believe a city I see in above photos is now turned into dust....

Speechless.
 
U know what, bro....I m lost in these photos...I just can't believe a city I see in above photos is now turned into dust....

Speechless.
I know bro. it makes me angry to see such photos of a country so close to us.
We have many Syrians in Turkey and they are all nice people.
 
West will never allow one dominant Arab or Muslim power to rise. If that happens, Islamic World will be united around one strong great power and this will not allow west to bomb, exploit, and loot Muslims and their lands.

So expect articles like these.

If Saudi Arabia or Egypt under democratic government became focal Arab power---it would be a very, very positive thing for the region and its peoples. But Ofc, powers that be would never want to see that :)
 
The Saudis were never the "true" dominant "Arab" or "Muslim" "Power".

I would rank them as the financier to Nations that actually are the heart beat of the "Arab World", Egypt, and the "Muslim World", Turkey/Pakistan/ ?Indonesia?.

PetroDollars only buy loyalty while the money is flowing in. Just look at Afghanistan, once the Viagras stopped being airdropped by the unmarked planes, the front lines against the Taliban changed quickly.

The Adventurism of the Gulf Arab States has only brought about more entrants to the Middle East. Increased attention by Russia, US, Europe, & China. And the expanded influence of Iran. Not to mention the capabilities of terrorist, who already existed, to roam around much more freely now that the power of the States diminished (Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen).

And the German Intelligence Agency said it the best "the previous cautious diplomatic stance of older leading members of the royal family is being replaced by an impulsive policy of intervention”.

The Muslim World isn't for the Saudis or Qataris to shape. But the people who live in each country.
 
This article is useless but it is no surprise given the author of the article being Patrick Cockburn (what a surname! - could be a main reason for his miserable existence).

Just make a quick Google search about him and the stuff he has written about KSA for the past 30 + years. An highly obsessed individual whose predictions (99% of them) have been useless and wrong.

Writing for the equally useless British pamphlet "The Independent" .

CrzRTDmXYAAnAoO.jpg:large


The apology from this useless "media":

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-saudi-arabia-isis-a7230121.html


I will let people themselves find out why this is relevant.

What has supporting the legitimate and internationally recognized government of Yemen to do with wanting to "dominate the Arab and Muslim world"? Or supporting the Syrian people against the Al-Assad regime?

There is no sole Muslim country that can or is dominating the Arab or Muslim world but KSA is undoubtedly the most influential Arab country and one of the most influential Muslim countries if not the most influential.

The Saudis were never the "true" dominant "Arab" or "Muslim" "Power".

I would rank them as the financier to Nations that actually are the heart beat of the "Arab World", Egypt, and the "Muslim World", Turkey/Pakistan/ ?Indonesia?.

PetroDollars only buy loyalty while the money is flowing in. Just look at Afghanistan, once the Viagras stopped being airdropped by the unmarked planes, the front lines against the Taliban changed quickly.

The Adventurism of the Gulf Arab States has only brought about more entrants to the Middle East. Increased attention by Russia, US, Europe, & China. And the expanded influence of Iran. Not to mention the capabilities of terrorist, who already existed, to roam around much more freely now that the power of the States diminished (Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen).

And the German Intelligence Agency said it the best "the previous cautious diplomatic stance of older leading members of the royal family is being replaced by an impulsive policy of intervention”.

The Muslim World isn't for the Saudis or Qataris to shape. But the people who live in each country.

Arabia is the heartland of the Islamic world religiously (hosting the most holy sites in the Muslim world), historically (cradle of Islam and where the first Islamic Caliphates emerged from), cultural (Muslim dynasties from modern-day KSA ruled the Caliphate/most ofMuslim world for almost 1000 years and during the Islamic Golden Age, Arabic is the lingua franca of the Muslim world and the liturgic language of Islam) and Arab culture was and historically is the most dominant culture in the Muslim world.

You are looking at this from a post WW2 point of view until the late 1970's.

Also you are misunderstanding a thing here. Nobody has claimed to rule/dominate anything yesterday, today nor tomorrow. There is no sole Muslim superpower but a handful of influential Muslim countries in their respective regions.

Also Saudi Arabians know about the burdens of history but today (2017) only a tiny minority of Saudi Arabians would even want to "rule" let alone "dominate" the Muslim world. That would just mean more money that should/could be spent inside KSA leaving the country.

I am totally against such ambitions personally and I consider it a waste of time and money.

We should cooperate not dominate/rule. This is not the Middle Ages any longer.

The only exception (of course) is my ambition of uniting Arabia under one single rule with me as a benevolent Sultan.

Who said that we want to dominate in the first place? That is just a wrong assumption which the Article was based on.

Some journalist named Patrick Cockburn said so!

:what: Where are the rest of Muslim/Arab countries Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia, Iran, Egypt .... ?

The guy who wrote this article reminds me of Pinky & the Brain :lol:


giphy.gif







giphy.gif

:lol:

Another thing, is it just me, or has the Syrian and Yemeni conflicts yet to end before we make conclusions about who has "won" and who has lost?
 
Last edited:
what do you expect from an author whose name is Patrick Cockburn? :rofl:

This article is useless but it is no surprise given the author of the article being Patrick Cockburn (what a surname! - could be a main reason for his miserable existence). Writing for the equally useless British pamphlet "The Independent" .
I will let people themselves find out why this is relevant.

What has supporting the legitimate and internationally recognized government of Yemen to do with wanting to "dominate the Arab and Muslim world"? Or supporting the Syrian people against the Al-Assad regime?

There is no sole Muslim country that can or is dominating the Arab or Muslim world but KSA is undoubtedly the most influential Arab country and one of the most influential Muslim countries if not the most influential.
you beat me to it
 
Back
Top Bottom