Russia's Lethal Yak-130 Fighter: The Tiny Terror NATO Should Fear

[500]

Would you like to explain, how it's too vulnerable ?

Subsonic, no armor at all. Assad used similar L-39 jets in 2012:

But then they disappeared, because they were too vulnerable even to rebel machine guns.

 

[Penguin]

Even the Yak-130 is being drive from an Italian design which is front runner member of the NATO countries.

No no no, Yak 130 started a russian design, then Yakovlev teamed with Alenia Aermacchi, then the latter developed its own variant.

 

[black-hawk_101]

No no no, Yak 130 started a russian design, then Yakovlev teamed with Alenia Aermacchi, then the latter developed its own variant.

Tfor PAF jf-17 dual seat is the best option.

 

[bdslph]

american scorpion is different from yak130

yak130 is a light fighter with trainer
yak 130 is 15 mil and scorpion is 20 mil

 

[Penguin]

american scorpion is different from yak130

yak130 is a light fighter with trainer
yak 130 is 15 mil and scorpion is 20 mil

Scorpion wasn't designed primarily as trainer, but as ISR/Strike aircraft (which optionally can also be used for training). Specifically:

The Scorpion Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) / Strike aircraft is being developed by Textron AirLand, a joint venture between Textron and AirLand Enterprises.
The aircraft is capable of performing air defence, irregular warfare, border patrol, maritime security, disaster relief and counter-drug missions.
"The aircraft will allow the allied nations to conduct their own security missions as well as joint operations."
The development of the Scorpion aircraft was commenced in January 2012, with the objective of producing the most economical jet-powered light attack aircraft in the world.

The aircraft is designed to integrate globally-available commercial components for reducing the total cost of ownership. The modular architecture of the aircraft allows for future integration of various sensors and weapon systems with reduced integration costs.
The internal payload bay is designed to deliver critical operational flexibility, by quickly accepting new payloads for different operational requirements. It can house various modules of sensors, fuel and communications in desirable combination to achieve high performance during a wide range of missions.
The Scorpion has a length of 13.25m, wing span of 14.42m and height of 4.26m. The standard weight of the aircraft is 5,352kg. The internal payload bay can accommodate a weight of 1,360kg, while the aircraft can carry a maximum payload of 4,286kg.
[/QUOTE
Scorpion ISR / Strike Aircraft - Airforce Technology

Whereas Yak-130 and Alenia Aermacchi M-346 are designed primarily as high-end trainer aka LIFT (which optionally can also be used for light strike.
That might seem semantics, but I think it matters and sets Scorpiion apart from various LIFT/Light attack aircraft..

Tfor PAF jf-17 dual seat is the best option.

Any LIFT is always complementary to trainer version of fighter, which is used for operational conversion

 

[black-hawk_101]

Scorpion wasn't designed primarily as trainer, but as ISR/Strike aircraft (which optionally can also be used for training). Specifically:

Whereas Yak-130 and Alenia Aermacchi M-346 are designed primarily as high-end trainer aka LIFT (which optionally can also be used for light strike.
That might seem semantics, but I think it matters and sets Scorpiion apart from various LIFT/Light attack aircraft..


Any LIFT is always complementary to trainer version of fighter, which is used for operational conversion

So JF-17 dual seat can't be a LIFT where as T-50 is one.

 

[!eon]

You can't take Assad's forces as role model for use any weapon. They are ill-trained and nonprofessional.

Subsonic, no armor at all. Assad used similar L-39 jets in 2012:

But then they disappeared, because they were too vulnerable even to rebel machine guns.

 

[James David]

To the one who started this thread, if you don't mind me asking, why in the world would NATO be afraid of this tiny jet?

 

[Penguin]

So JF-17 dual seat can't be a LIFT where as T-50 is one.

A dual seat trainer version of JF-17 would be primarily for operational conversion training i.e. getting a trained pilot familiar with a particular fighter aircraft. That pilot would already have been prepared as pilot for the JF-17 on a number of trainers. In the case of PAF: (Super) Mushshak basic (turboprop) trainer, subsonic (armed) Cessna T-37 Tweet basic jet trainer, subsonic (armed) K-8 Karakorum intermediate jet trainer and - recently acquired from Turkey - the supersonic (unarmed) T-38 Talon advanced jet trainer.

As for KAI Golden Eagle, aside from the specialized aerobatic version for Rokaf' Black Eagles team, there are 3 versions.

• T-50 Supersonic advanced trainer / LIFT
• TA-50 Lead-in fighter trainer with light attack capability.
• FA-50 All-weather multirole fighter aka supersonic advanced light attack platform, originally named A-50.

T-50 and TA-50 are used as trainers for F-16, F-4E's and F-15E's. The FA-50 isn't used as a trainer and will likely serve to eventually replace all Rokaf's F-5Es.
KAI KOREA AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES, LTD.

The difference between T-50, TA-50 and FA-50 is much like the different between, say, the subsonic Hawk-50, Hawk100/120/Lift and Hawk 200.

 

[black-hawk_101]

A dual seat trainer version of JF-17 would be primarily for operational conversion training i.e. getting a trained pilot familiar with a particular fighter aircraft. That pilot would already have been prepared as pilot for the JF-17 on a number of trainers. In the case of PAF: (Super) Mushshak basic (turboprop) trainer, subsonic (armed) Cessna T-37 Tweet basic jet trainer, subsonic (armed) K-8 Karakorum intermediate jet trainer and - recently acquired from Turkey - the supersonic (unarmed) T-38 Talon advanced jet trainer.

As for KAI Golden Eagle, aside from the specialized aerobatic version for Rokaf' Black Eagles team, there are 3 versions.

• T-50 Supersonic advanced trainer / LIFT
• TA-50 Lead-in fighter trainer with light attack capability.
• FA-50 All-weather multirole fighter aka supersonic advanced light attack platform, originally named A-50.

T-50 and TA-50 are used as trainers for F-16, F-4E's and F-15E's. The FA-50 isn't used as a trainer and will likely serve to eventually replace all Rokaf's F-5Es.
KAI KOREA AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES, LTD.

The difference between T-50, TA-50 and FA-50 is much like the different between, say, the subsonic Hawk-50, Hawk100/120/Lift and Hawk 200.

Then best is only L-15 or may be Turkish F-5s. But PAF needs to make a program to acquire more T-37s and T-38s from current and former operators.
Though T-38s can also be acquired in the form of F-5s dual seat with latest Turkish upgrade even the single seat is an awesome machine too.

 

[Penguin]

Then best is only L-15 or may be Turkish F-5s. But PAF needs to make a program to acquire more T-37s and T-38s from current and former operators.
Though T-38s can also be acquired in the form of F-5s dual seat with latest Turkish upgrade even the single seat is an awesome machine too.

Hongu L-15 (which has been sold to Zambia and Venezuela) could be a good option for PAF, esp. given its usefull light attack capability. But ... it would require more funds than - say - 'gifted' T-38s from Turkey. There was talk of PF geeting the L-15 a couple of years ago. (Pakistan plans to buy Hongdu L-15 Supersonic Trainer Jet) but seeing the delivery of T-38s, one might conclude that financial realities have force a different route.

T-37 is old: first flight October 1954
T-38 too: first flew 10 March 1959
F-5 also: F-5A first flew 30 July 1959 and F-5E first flew in 11 August 1972

Please note
A dual seat F-5 (B or F version) is a fully cabable two-seater combat aircraft.
T-38 Talon is an unarmed (slightly smaller) dedicated advanced trainer.

Northrop F-5

• Length: 47 ft 4¾ in (14.45 m)

• Wingspan: 26 ft 8 in (8.13 m)

• Height: 13 ft 4½ in (4.08 m)

• Wing area: 186 ft² (17.28 m²)

• Empty weight: 9,558 lb (4,349 kg)

• Loaded weight: 15,745 lb (7,157 kg)

• Max. takeoff weight: 24,722 lb (11,214 kg)

• Powerplant: 2 × General Electric J85-GE-21B turbojet
  • Dry thrust: 3,500 lbf (15.5 kN) each
  • Thrust with afterburner: 5,000 lbf (22.2 kN) each

• Maximum speed: 917 kn (Mach 1.6, 1,060 mph, 1,700 km/h) ; at altitude
• Range: 760 nmi (870 mi, 1,405 km)
• Ferry range: 2,010 nmi (2,310 mi, 3,700 km[150])
• Service ceiling: 51,800 ft (15,800 m)
• Rate of climb: 34,400 ft/min (175 m/s)

T-38 Talon

• Length: 46 ft 4.5 in (14.14 m)

• Wingspan: 25 ft 3 in (7.7 m)

• Height: 12 ft 10.5 in (3.92 m)

• Wing area: 170 ft² (15.79 m²)

• Empty weight: 7,200 lb (3,270 kg)

• Loaded weight: 11,820 lb (5,360 kg)

• Max. takeoff weight: 12,093 lb (5,485 kg)

• Powerplant: 2 × General Electric J85-5A (J85-5R after PMP modification) afterburning turbojets
  • Dry thrust: 2,050 lb (9.1 kN) each
  • Thrust with afterburner: 2,900 lbf[55] (17.1 kN) each

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 1.3 (858 mph, 1,381 km/h)
• Range: 1,140 mi (1,835 km)
• Service ceiling: 50,000 ft (15,240 m)
• Rate of climb: 33,600 ft/min[56] (170.7 m/sec) ()
• Wing loading: 69.53 lb/ft² (339.4 kg/m²)

 

[black-hawk_101]

Hongu L-15 (which has been sold to Zambia and Venezuela) could be a good option for PAF, esp. given its usefull light attack capability. But ... it would require more funds than - say - 'gifted' T-38s from Turkey. There was talk of PF geeting the L-15 a couple of years ago. (Pakistan plans to buy Hongdu L-15 Supersonic Trainer Jet) but seeing the delivery of T-38s, one might conclude that financial realities have force a different route.

T-37 is old: first flight October 1954
T-38 too: first flew 10 March 1959
F-5 also: F-5A first flew 30 July 1959 and F-5E first flew in 11 August 1972

Please note
A dual seat F-5 (B or F version) is a fully cabable two-seater combat aircraft.
T-38 Talon is an unarmed (slightly smaller) dedicated advanced trainer.

Northrop F-5

• Length: 47 ft 4¾ in (14.45 m)

• Wingspan: 26 ft 8 in (8.13 m)

• Height: 13 ft 4½ in (4.08 m)

• Wing area: 186 ft² (17.28 m²)

• Empty weight: 9,558 lb (4,349 kg)

• Loaded weight: 15,745 lb (7,157 kg)

• Max. takeoff weight: 24,722 lb (11,214 kg)

• Powerplant: 2 × General Electric J85-GE-21B turbojet
  • Dry thrust: 3,500 lbf (15.5 kN) each
  • Thrust with afterburner: 5,000 lbf (22.2 kN) each

• Maximum speed: 917 kn (Mach 1.6, 1,060 mph, 1,700 km/h) ; at altitude
• Range: 760 nmi (870 mi, 1,405 km)
• Ferry range: 2,010 nmi (2,310 mi, 3,700 km[150])
• Service ceiling: 51,800 ft (15,800 m)
• Rate of climb: 34,400 ft/min (175 m/s)

T-38 Talon

• Length: 46 ft 4.5 in (14.14 m)

• Wingspan: 25 ft 3 in (7.7 m)

• Height: 12 ft 10.5 in (3.92 m)

• Wing area: 170 ft² (15.79 m²)

• Empty weight: 7,200 lb (3,270 kg)

• Loaded weight: 11,820 lb (5,360 kg)

• Max. takeoff weight: 12,093 lb (5,485 kg)

• Powerplant: 2 × General Electric J85-5A (J85-5R after PMP modification) afterburning turbojets
  • Dry thrust: 2,050 lb (9.1 kN) each
  • Thrust with afterburner: 2,900 lbf[55] (17.1 kN) each

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 1.3 (858 mph, 1,381 km/h)
• Range: 1,140 mi (1,835 km)
• Service ceiling: 50,000 ft (15,240 m)
• Rate of climb: 33,600 ft/min[56] (170.7 m/sec) ()
• Wing loading: 69.53 lb/ft² (339.4 kg/m²)

As China has committed to give 30 Z-10Ps, 4 KE-3 Block-IIs, 6 Type022 for free and may be some more 18 Z-9EC. Then why should we ask China to give us some 25-30 L-15s on the cost to cost basis?