Russia experts estimate F-22 RCS at 0.3 m^2 and Su-57 RCS at 0.35 m^2. Fairly realistic numbers.

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

There are no exact data on the F-22’s RCS: it varies from 0.3 to 0.0001 sq. m., according to various sources. The data of Russian specialists suggest that the F-22A’s RCS ranges between 0.5 and 0.1 sq. m. while the radar Irbis mounted on the Sukhoi Su-35S fighter jet can detect the Raptor at a distance of no less than 95 km.

The Sukhoi Design Bureau notes “the aircraft’s unprecedentedly low radar, optical and infrared visibility,” although domestic specialists have quite restrained estimates of the jet’s RCS at 0.3-0.4 sq. m. Meanwhile, some Western analysts make more optimistic estimates about the Russian T-50 aircraft and consider its RCS to be three times less at about 0.1 sq. m.

More:
http://tass.com/defense/866381

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

But again, RCS all depends on radar and weather condition. More powerful radar shoot more powerful beam. Less powerful radar shoot less powerful beam. Radar can't see through cloud or fog whose water droplets and ice pellets scatter light, so it only works in good weather condition.

 

[LeGenD]

Russian propaganda. What is new?

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Russian propaganda. What is new?

Propaganda? These numbers are classified. You are not an expert. Experts are the only ones who are qualified to make estimates.

 

[LeGenD]

Propaganda? These numbers are classified. You are not an expert. Experts are the only ones who are qualified to make estimates.

The word EXPERT is "subjective."

Russians can tell much about SU-57 but not F-22A because they are unable to develop its peer in VLO; multiple factors come together to define VLO for an aircraft. Attempting to estimate RCS of an aircraft from a singular perspective is foolish. Information leaks on the web tell another story (classified or not).

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

The word EXPERT is "subjective."

Russians can tell much about SU-57 but not F-22A because they are unable to develop its peer in VLO; multiple factors come together to define VLO for an aircraft. Attempting to estimate RCS of an aircraft from a singular perspective is foolish. Information leaks on the web tell another story (classified or not).

There's nothing special about F-22. It don't have plasma stealth or cloaking device. There are limitations to technology of the 1980s heck even today. Sure it has reduced RCS. Compared to 3 m^2 of F-15, 0.3 m^2 is already pushing it. To push it more to 0.0000001 m^2 you need plasma stealth or cloaking device.

 

[SME11B]

There are no exact data on the F-22’s RCS: it varies from 0.3 to 0.0001 sq. m., according to various sources. The data of Russian specialists suggest that the F-22A’s RCS ranges between 0.5 and 0.1 sq. m. while the radar Irbis mounted on the Sukhoi Su-35S fighter jet can detect the Raptor at a distance of no less than 95 km.

The Sukhoi Design Bureau notes “the aircraft’s unprecedentedly low radar, optical and infrared visibility,” although domestic specialists have quite restrained estimates of the jet’s RCS at 0.3-0.4 sq. m. Meanwhile, some Western analysts make more optimistic estimates about the Russian T-50 aircraft and consider its RCS to be three times less at about 0.1 sq. m.

More:
http://tass.com/defense/866381

Su-35s might be able to detect f-22 at 95km at it's worst angle and if it somehow knew which part of the sky to concentrate it's radar power but that would be difficult. Also it's likely that if f-22 decided to close the distance it would be showing a much stealthier angle cutting that range significantly. That's best case it seems for su-35s. F-22 enjoys easy detection of su-35 at hundreds of kms whether using radar or not unless su-35 is keeping radar off. Meanwhile f-22 dictates whether to engage or on what terms. There is no point in trying to compare anything but an f-35, su-57 or j20 to f-22 and even then they would probably not come out on top.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Su-35s might be able to detect f-22 at 95km at it's worst angle and if it somehow knew which part of the sky to concentrate it's radar power but that would be difficult. Also it's likely that if f-22 decided to close the distance it would be showing a much stealthier angle cutting that range significantly. That's best case it seems for su-35s. F-22 enjoys easy detection of su-35 at hundreds of kms whether using radar or not unless su-35 is keeping radar off. Meanwhile f-22 dictates whether to engage or on what terms. There is no point in trying to compare anything but an f-35, su-57 or j20 to f-22 and even then they would probably not come out on top.

F-22 is about 0.3 m^2 from the front. Let's say 10% of F-15's 3 m^2. That's already pushing it without plasma stealth cloaking device. Su-35 is probably 1 m^2 from the front a third compared to Su-27's 3 m^2 due to use of RAM. Su-57 and F-22 should be comparable at about 0.3 m^2 a third compared to Su-35. Seems reasonable. Until plasma stealth cloaking device is available, any further reduction does not seem likely. Keep in mind F-22 is 1980s technology. Whatever Americans have, pfffft, everyone else have.

 

[ptldM3]

Russian propaganda. What is new?

Try reading the article before bringing your usual bias propaganda and trolling against anything Russian which you have a history of. From that article:


"There are no exact data on the F-22’s RCS: it varies from 0.3 to 0.0001 sq. m., according to various sources. The data of Russian specialists suggest that the F-22A’s RCS ranges between 0.5 and 0.1 sq. m."

More:
http://tass.com/defense/866381



Clearly the article put out disclaimers and cited various figures, it cited the SU-57 as haveing a higher RCS, hardly propaganda.....Now clearly you weren't upset about the fact that some random article claims the SU-57 had a RCS of 0.35sq m. No you got upset over the F-22 figures not being lower enough for your liking even though you have no evidence that supports anything related to reliable RCS figures and I'm talking about average figures and not frontal figures under ideal conditions.


When Americans throw out figures you gush into complete euphoria and agree with everything. When Lockheed goes on to advertises the F-35 as the most advanced and lethal aircraft ever built in the world you simply agree and repeat their talking points. When Sukhoi or any other Russian arms manufacturers advertise their products (which is rare compared to Lockheed) you call it propaganda.


As for F-22 and it's magic RCS, the Rafale locked onto it many times, this not to knock the aircraft because it is an amazing engineered machine but nevertheless it was locked into, granted it may have had a luneburg lens but most radar locks occurred from the top out hemisphere where the lens was hidden.

Of all the bashing F-22/35 people dish out again the SU-57, the F-22 has far more discontinuities in the rear hemisphere then the SU-57, it has exposed 90 degrees corners, it has 8 moving parts for the nozzles, it's far from perfect.

The same area of the SU-57 have nothing comparableto the F-22, there are only about 6-8 discontinuities (gaps) compared to the F-22s 30+ discontinuities not to mention the tighter tolerances around the nozzles even then I have no problem saying that the SU-57 can be tracked, I have no problem saying the same about the F-22.

The Rafale must have one hell of a radar if it can lock onto a target that is taunted as being the size of a marble....Russian propaganda indeed. When you count frontal RCS figures, side, top, bottom, rear and every angle in between the overall RCS of the F-22 is probably roughly close to the figures put out--there is no questions about it unless you prescribe to propaganda of 0.0000001sq m figures that take only frontal figures under ideal circumstances which are not realistic in warfare.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Su-35 radar already tracked F-22 in Syria from like 100 km away. That is proven. F-22's 0.3 m^2 RCS estimate is accurate. Su-35 radar can track it at about 100 km away.

The rumored 0.0001 m^2 RCS number for F-22 is not possible with current technology. It can be achieved only with plasma stealth cloaking device. RAM can't make it that small.

 

[Oublious]

Yes but when Americans throw out figures you gush into complete euphoria. When Lockheed goes on to advertises the F-35 as the most advanced and lethal aircraft ever built in the world you simply agree and repeat their talking points. When Sukhoi or any other Russian arms manufacturers advertise their products (which is rare compared to Lockheed) you call it propaganda.


As for F-22 and it's magic RCS, the Rafale locked onto it many times.


View attachment 523751


Of all the bashing F-22/35 fanboys dish out again the SU-57, the F-22 has far more discontinuities in the rear hemisphere then the SU-57, it has exposed 90 degrees corners, it has 8 moving parts for the nozzles.

View attachment 523752View attachment 523753


The Rafale must have one hell of a radar if it can lock onto a target that is taunted as being the size of a marble....Russian propaganda indeed.

Thats not 95 km away or 10 km, but max 2 km. In the real world Raf wouldn't see F22 coming maybe the missile.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Thats not 95 km away or 10 km, but max 2 km. In the real world Raf wouldn't see F22 coming maybe the missile.

Nop. F-22 flying 1 km into Russia air space would be tracked intercepted humiliated by Su-35. Fact. Putin ain't that easy to kill.

 

[Akasa]

Yes but when Americans throw out figures you gush into complete euphoria. When Lockheed goes on to advertises the F-35 as the most advanced and lethal aircraft ever built in the world you simply agree and repeat their talking points. When Sukhoi or any other Russian arms manufacturers advertise their products (which is rare compared to Lockheed) you call it propaganda.


As for F-22 and it's magic RCS, the Rafale locked onto it many times.


View attachment 523751


Of all the bashing F-22/35 fanboys dish out again the SU-57, the F-22 has far more discontinuities in the rear hemisphere then the SU-57, it has exposed 90 degrees corners, it has 8 moving parts for the nozzles.

View attachment 523752View attachment 523753


The Rafale must have one hell of a radar if it can lock onto a target that is taunted as being the size of a marble....Russian propaganda indeed.

Note that the Rafale managed to do so within fairly close (visual) range; this is fully expected of any aircraft in the current age and doesn't detract from the F-22's ability to remain undetectable at longer ranges.

 

[ptldM3]

Thats not 95 km away or 10 km, but max 2 km. In the real world Raf wouldn't see F22 coming maybe the missile.

No one said anything about the Rafale seeing the F-22 first. The F-22 is taunted as being marble sized yet no radar in the world can achieve a lock on onto a marble sized target no matter how hard the fanboys claim.

Note that the Rafale managed to do so within fairly close (visual) range; this is fully expected of any aircraft in the current age and doesn't detract from the F-22's ability to remain undetectable at longer ranges.

No shit.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Note that the Rafale managed to do so within fairly close (visual) range; this is fully expected of any aircraft in the current age and doesn't detract from the F-22's ability to remain undetectable at longer ranges.

Nop. If F-22 flies 1 km into France it gets tracked and intercepted by Rafale. You think Macron is that easy to kill? Think again.

No one said anything about the Rafale seeing the F-22 first. The F-22 is taunted as being marble sized yet no radar in the world can achieve a lock on onto a marble sized target no matter how hard the fanboys claim.




No shit.

That's right. If they think you can use an F-22 to fly to Moscow and kill Putin, they are delusional. Ha! No radar can find a bee sized plane. If F-22 is bee sized (Hint: it's not) it would be invincible.