Russia, China can't take down Starlink's 2,000+ satellites, says Elon Musk

[Hamartia Antidote]

Russia, China can't take down Starlink's 2,000+ satellites, says Elon Musk

Points out that Starlink can send more satellites than they can destroy.

interestingengineering.com

SpaceX CEO, Elon Musk, believes that his company's Starlink satellites are not easy for adversaries like Russia or China to take down. Musk said this during an interview with Business Insider.

Musk spoke to Mathias Döpfner, the CEO of Axel Springer, the company that owns Business Insider, recently at Tesla's factory in Fremont, California. The duo discussed space travel, the future of humanity as well as its present which included the ongoing conflict in Ukraine. Musk has been very much a part of the Ukrainian defense by supplying Starlink terminals and activating satellite internet services in the country at short notice.

Ukraine's need for satellite internet​

While revealing the motivations behind supplying the terminals and the rapid pace at which SpaceX delivered them, Musk said that the company anticipated the need for satellite internet at the beginning of the invasion and preemptively acted on it, even before a formal request was made by Ukraine.


After a cyberattack took off Ukrainian internet connectivity and cell phone towers were either being blown up or jammed, satellite internet was the only viable connection mode available and the SpaceX rushed to provide its services.

While we had earlier reported how private individuals in Ukraine are relying on Starlink, a Business Insider report said that Starlink's internet services were also helping an elite Ukrainian drone unit take out Russian tanks and trucks in the night.

This makes the internet service a prime target for Russian forces.

Not so easy​

Musk cited an anti-satellite test that Russia had conducted last where it used its anti-ballistic missile interceptor, PL-19 Nudol system, for its direct ascent anti-satellite (DA-AST) to test, and destroyed an older satellite of its own. The resulting space debris not only spooked satellite operators but also caused a scare for the International Space Station.


However, Musk is confident that such a system won't be used against its satellites. Starlink currently operates over 2,000 satellites and to bring the entire constellation down would cost an adversary, 2,000 of its anti-satellite weapons.

Interestingly, Musk thinks that SpaceX can put up more satellites in space than adversaries can bring down in a given time frame.

He does hope that this is never put to test, though.

 

[NotSure]

Particle cloud ASAT weapon will be very effective against this tiny sats with very little mass + fixed low earth orbits. They already have a very short lifespan, because of the friction in LEO and their little mass.

Flying throught a particle cloud with enough density and in retrograde orbit can deorbit the Starlink sats in a very short timeframe.

 

[dbc]

Russia, China can't take down Starlink's 2,000+ satellites, says Elon Musk

Points out that Starlink can send more satellites than they can destroy.

interestingengineering.com

SpaceX CEO, Elon Musk, believes that his company's Starlink satellites are not easy for adversaries like Russia or China to take down. Musk said this during an interview with Business Insider.

Musk spoke to Mathias Döpfner, the CEO of Axel Springer, the company that owns Business Insider, recently at Tesla's factory in Fremont, California. The duo discussed space travel, the future of humanity as well as its present which included the ongoing conflict in Ukraine. Musk has been very much a part of the Ukrainian defense by supplying Starlink terminals and activating satellite internet services in the country at short notice.

Ukraine's need for satellite internet​

While revealing the motivations behind supplying the terminals and the rapid pace at which SpaceX delivered them, Musk said that the company anticipated the need for satellite internet at the beginning of the invasion and preemptively acted on it, even before a formal request was made by Ukraine.


After a cyberattack took off Ukrainian internet connectivity and cell phone towers were either being blown up or jammed, satellite internet was the only viable connection mode available and the SpaceX rushed to provide its services.

While we had earlier reported how private individuals in Ukraine are relying on Starlink, a Business Insider report said that Starlink's internet services were also helping an elite Ukrainian drone unit take out Russian tanks and trucks in the night.

This makes the internet service a prime target for Russian forces.

Not so easy​

Musk cited an anti-satellite test that Russia had conducted last where it used its anti-ballistic missile interceptor, PL-19 Nudol system, for its direct ascent anti-satellite (DA-AST) to test, and destroyed an older satellite of its own. The resulting space debris not only spooked satellite operators but also caused a scare for the International Space Station.


However, Musk is confident that such a system won't be used against its satellites. Starlink currently operates over 2,000 satellites and to bring the entire constellation down would cost an adversary, 2,000 of its anti-satellite weapons.

Interestingly, Musk thinks that SpaceX can put up more satellites in space than adversaries can bring down in a given time frame.

He does hope that this is never put to test, though.

duh! why do you think the Pentagon signed up for Starlink?
It is meant as a failover for GPS and comms. GPS III is nearly impossible to take out but it's still good to have a back up.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Particle cloud ASAT weapon will be very effective against this tiny sats with very little mass + fixed low earth orbits. They already have a very short lifespan, because of the friction in LEO and their little mass.

Flying throught a particle cloud with enough density and in retrograde orbit can deorbit the Starlink sats in a very short timeframe.

He can put those satellites in any orbit. You'd have to make the entire LEO uninhabitable.

Even the Chinese complained the satellites were crossing their space station orbit as they shifted around above and below it.

China Complains Space Station Was Forced to Dodge Elon Musk's Satellites

China classed both incidents as constituting "dangers to the life or health of astronauts aboard the China Space Station."

www.newsweek.com

 

[Apollon]

Particle cloud ASAT weapon will be very effective against this tiny sats with very little mass + fixed low earth orbits. They already have a very short lifespan, because of the friction in LEO and their little mass.

Flying throught a particle cloud with enough density and in retrograde orbit can deorbit the Starlink sats in a very short timeframe.

Yup and to achieve this you destroy all your own space assets as well.

 

[kankan326]

What if send millions of high speed steel balls to the starlink satellites orbit?

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

What if send millions of high speed steel balls to the starlink satellites orbit

You take down your space station

 

[kankan326]

You take down your space station

War is the first thing to consider. Space station is not important in front of war

 

[NotSure]

He can put those satellites in any orbit. You'd have to make the entire LEO uninhabitable.

No you can't, as per definition. For Starlink to work you have to a) put them on LEO and b) with a big density and all Starlink satellites from the same launch have their "ralway like" orbit. Means: All Starlink sats from the same launch have to fly trough the same cloud again and again and will lose energy very fast. And because they are so small, they do not have fuel to hold the orbit.

Regarding the orbit pollution: Yes, starlink sats are the pollution and the USA + Musk need to be sanctioned for this. The particle cloud with particles around 100-500µm will have a very short lifespan, because the particles are that small. So the friction in the LEO will be HUGE compared to their inertia.

 

[kankan326]

No you can't, as per definition. For Starlink to work you have to a) put them on LEO and b) with a big density and all Starlink satellites from the same launch have their "ralway like" orbit. Means: All Starlink sats from the same launch have to fly trough the same cloud again and again and will lose energy very fast. And because they are so small, they do not have fuel to hold the orbit.

Regarding the orbit pollution: Yes, starlink sats are the pollution and the USA + Musk need to be sanctioned for this. The particle cloud with particles around 100-500µm will have a very short lifespan, because the particles are that small. So the friction in the LEO will be HUGE compared to their inertia.

Look like easy targets for "shotgun"

 

[F-22Raptor]

Russia, China can't take down Starlink's 2,000+ satellites, says Elon Musk

Points out that Starlink can send more satellites than they can destroy.

interestingengineering.com

SpaceX CEO, Elon Musk, believes that his company's Starlink satellites are not easy for adversaries like Russia or China to take down. Musk said this during an interview with Business Insider.

Musk spoke to Mathias Döpfner, the CEO of Axel Springer, the company that owns Business Insider, recently at Tesla's factory in Fremont, California. The duo discussed space travel, the future of humanity as well as its present which included the ongoing conflict in Ukraine. Musk has been very much a part of the Ukrainian defense by supplying Starlink terminals and activating satellite internet services in the country at short notice.

Ukraine's need for satellite internet​

While revealing the motivations behind supplying the terminals and the rapid pace at which SpaceX delivered them, Musk said that the company anticipated the need for satellite internet at the beginning of the invasion and preemptively acted on it, even before a formal request was made by Ukraine.


After a cyberattack took off Ukrainian internet connectivity and cell phone towers were either being blown up or jammed, satellite internet was the only viable connection mode available and the SpaceX rushed to provide its services.

While we had earlier reported how private individuals in Ukraine are relying on Starlink, a Business Insider report said that Starlink's internet services were also helping an elite Ukrainian drone unit take out Russian tanks and trucks in the night.

This makes the internet service a prime target for Russian forces.

Not so easy​

Musk cited an anti-satellite test that Russia had conducted last where it used its anti-ballistic missile interceptor, PL-19 Nudol system, for its direct ascent anti-satellite (DA-AST) to test, and destroyed an older satellite of its own. The resulting space debris not only spooked satellite operators but also caused a scare for the International Space Station.


However, Musk is confident that such a system won't be used against its satellites. Starlink currently operates over 2,000 satellites and to bring the entire constellation down would cost an adversary, 2,000 of its anti-satellite weapons.

Interestingly, Musk thinks that SpaceX can put up more satellites in space than adversaries can bring down in a given time frame.

He does hope that this is never put to test, though.

And we see how effective Starlink has been in Ukraine. Starlink is a huge strategic advantage for the US.

 

[dbc]

What if send millions of high speed steel balls to the starlink satellites orbit?

SpaceX can launch 30,000 replacement satellites in one mission, while everything else is destroyed in LEO. Besides we can fight without GPS, others can't...

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

War is the first thing to consider. Space station is not important in front of war

Well luckily Russia wasn't sharing your extreme mindset during the Ukraine crisis or we could have been saying "bye bye" to both space stations right now.

 

[kankan326]

SpaceX can launch 30,000 replacement satellites in one mission, while everything else is destroyed in LEO. Besides we can fight without GPS, others can't...

What I meant is making starlink orbit contaminated by millions of objects, balls, rectangle plates or anything. The replacement capacity is meaningless.

Well luckily Russia wasn't sharing your extreme mindset during the Ukraine crisis or we could have been saying "bye bye" to both space stations right now.

Because Russia has not been cornered yet.

 

[NotSure]

Look like easy targets for "shotgun"

View attachment 829404

Yep. Let's do the math here. The density in 500km LEO is around 10^-12 kg/m³. So a cube of (100m)³ has the mass of 10^-6 kg or 1mg. Enough the make the lifespan of LEO sats short, even the ISS needs its own engines. A tiny sat like the Starlink loses its energy much faster, because their mass is proportional to the volume of the sat and this is a cubic function. The surface area where you have the friction is a quadratic function, or in other words the surface area is huge compared to the mass and inertia.

A particle cloud warhead with a mass of only 1000kg will result in a density of 10^-3 kg/m³ or 1000 times more than normal at 500km or similar to ~170km altitude. If you can aim better and have a cube of <(50m)³ the density will reach ~10^-2 kg/m³ similar to 100km altitude. In a retrograde orbit the tiny Starlink sats will hit this particle cloud with around 14 km/s and will lose their speed in very short time.

And you do not even need special particles for it, simply shoot up a few t of plaster (CaSO4) with ~50µm particle size and disperse it in a cloud.

Thermosphäre – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org