Romania To Acquire F-16s From NATO Member States

[Zarvan]

WARSAW — Romanian Defense Minister Mihnea Motoc has unveiled plans to purchase 12 F-16 fighter jets in 2017, with the acquisition expected to be launched by the end of this year, reports local daily Gandul.

Motoc said that the Romanian Cabinet is aiming to acquire used fighter jets from other NATO member states.

“We don’t know from whom we will buy the aircraft. To date, we have sent out requests for information to all the allied countries which operate such planes, including the US and five European allies. We are awaiting their response,” Motoc said.

Under the plan, the F-16s are to replace Romania’s outdated Soviet-designed Mikoyan MiG-21 fighters. The estimated value of the procurement was not disclosed.

In 2013, the Romanian government signed a deal to acquire 12 used F-16 Block 15 fighters from Portugal under a deal worth about €628 million (US $691.5 million). The aircraft, which will be upgraded by Lockheed Martin, are to be delivered to Romania this September. The US manufacturer will design, integrate and support the installation of updated F-16 software.

The Romanian fleet of F-16s will be deployed to the Fetesti military base which is located in Borcea, in close proximity of the country's Black Sea shore.

Email: jadamowski@defensenews.com

Romania To Acquire F-16s From NATO Member States

 

[Stannis Baratheon]

12 used F-16 Block 15 fighters from Portugal under a deal worth about €628 million (US $691.5 million)

That means one used F-16 costs $57 million! Talk about being ripped off.

 

[jammersat]

Turkey?

 

[Penguin]

WARSAW — Romanian Defense Minister Mihnea Motoc has unveiled plans to purchase 12 F-16 fighter jets in 2017, with the acquisition expected to be launched by the end of this year, reports local daily Gandul.

Motoc said that the Romanian Cabinet is aiming to acquire used fighter jets from other NATO member states.

“We don’t know from whom we will buy the aircraft. To date, we have sent out requests for information to all the allied countries which operate such planes, including the US and five European allies. We are awaiting their response,” Motoc said.

Under the plan, the F-16s are to replace Romania’s outdated Soviet-designed Mikoyan MiG-21 fighters. The estimated value of the procurement was not disclosed.

In 2013, the Romanian government signed a deal to acquire 12 used F-16 Block 15 fighters from Portugal under a deal worth about €628 million (US $691.5 million). The aircraft, which will be upgraded by Lockheed Martin, are to be delivered to Romania this September. The US manufacturer will design, integrate and support the installation of updated F-16 software.

The Romanian fleet of F-16s will be deployed to the Fetesti military base which is located in Borcea, in close proximity of the country's Black Sea shore.

Email: jadamowski@defensenews.com

Romania To Acquire F-16s From NATO Member States

The green and blue statements seem to contradict. Are these F-16 in addition to those contracted from Portugal, perhaps? Or is there really no confusion about the source of the F-16s? (I'm leaning towards a second squadron)

Portugal deploys F-16s to Romania | IHS Jane's 360
Romania will buy another 12 F16 fighters
Romania to buy second squadron of F-16s

As for $691.5 million for 12 jets, that deal would likely include more than just the jets e.g. refurbishing, upgrading, crew training, logistical support, munitions, spares, support services contracts etc. So, you have to really look at the deal before saying abything about the unist cost of the jets per se.

WASHINGTON, Nov 8, 2013 – The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress today of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Romania of weapons, equipment, and support for 12 F-16 MLU Block 15 for an estimated cost of $457 million.

The Government of Romania has requested a possible sale of weapons, equipment, and support for 12 F-16 MLU Block 15 aircraft that will be procured through a third party transfer from Portugal. Articles and services will include:

• 13 Embedded Global Positioning Systems/Inertial Navigation Systems (EGPS/INS) with GPS Security Devices, Airborne
• 3 AN/ALQ-131 Electronic Countermeasure Pods
• 30 AIM-120C Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM)
• 5 AIM-120C Captive Air Training Missiles (CATMs)
• 60 AIM-9M Sidewinder Missiles
• 4 AIM-9M CATMs
• 48 LAU-129 Launchers
• 10 GBU-12 Enhanced Guided Bomb Units
• 18 AGM-65H/KB Maverick Missiles
• 4 AGM-65 CATMs
• 15 Multifunctional Information Distribution System/Low Volume Terminals
• 2 Multifunctional Information Distribution System Ground Support Systems

Also included are spare and repair parts, support equipment, tanker support, ferry services, repair and return services, software development/integration, test and equipment, supply support, personnel training and training equipment, publications and technical data, U.S. Government and contractor technical services, and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated cost is $457 million.

Romania – Weapons, Equipment, and Support for F-16 Block 15 MLU Aircraft | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency

 

[yugocrosrb95]

That means one used F-16 costs $57 million! Talk about being ripped off.

It is a rip-off, specially long term and they could have bought Gripen for 57 million USD like Sweden offered to my country and overall operational cost is cheaper, maintainance is cheaper, etc than F-16 and radar upgrade for Gripen in 2017 will increase detection range of a jet fighter at 300 kilometers and Meteor BVRAAM will be intergrated into C/D Gripen's plus Denel's A-Darter...

The green and blue statements seem to contradict. Are these F-16 in addition to those contracted from Portugal, perhaps? Or is there really no confusion about the source of the F-16s? (I'm leaning towards a second squadron)

Portugal deploys F-16s to Romania | IHS Jane's 360
Romania will buy another 12 F16 fighters
Romania to buy second squadron of F-16s

As for $691.5 million for 12 jets, that deal would likely include more than just the jets e.g. refurbishing, upgrading, crew training, logistical support, munitions, spares, support services contracts etc. So, you have to really look at the deal before saying abything about the unist cost of the jets per se.

Romania – Weapons, Equipment, and Support for F-16 Block 15 MLU Aircraft | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency

Brand new F-16 is 80+ million USD, I had my doubts that a used F-16 will ever cost below 60 million USD.

 

[Penguin]

It is a rip-off, specially long term and they could have bought Gripen for 57 million USD like Sweden offered to my country and overall operational cost is cheaper, maintainance is cheaper, etc than F-16 and radar upgrade for Gripen in 2017 will increase detection range of a jet fighter at 300 kilometers and Meteor BVRAAM will be intergrated into C/D Gripen's plus Denel's A-Darter...


Brand new F-16 is 80+ million USD, I had my doubts that a used F-16 will ever cost below 60 million USD.

Pakistan recently made a deal for eight (8) F-16 Block 52 Aircraft, equipment, training, and logistics support for an estimated cost of $699.04 million.
The Government of Pakistan – F-16 Block 52 Aircraft | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency

Oman and Iraq got NEW F-16s. See the value of those deals:

WASHINGTON, August 3, 2010 – The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress today of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Oman of 18 F-16 Block 50/52 aircraft and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $3.5 Billion.
Oman – F-16 Aircraft | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency

WASHINGTON, September 15, 2010 -- The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress on September 13 of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Iraq of 18 F-16IQ Aircraft as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $4.2 billion.
Iraq – F-16 Aircraft | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency

Consider that a support package to aircraft lie F-16 can easily be $100-200 million, or more, depending on the needs of the recipient. See e.g.
Bahrain – F-16 Follow-On Support | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency
Greece – F-16 Sustainment | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency
United Arab Emirates - F-16 Program Support | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency
Greece – Spare Parts and Services for F-16 Aircraft | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency

Lets look at the DSCA announcement for Romania in detail:

"The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress today of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Romania of weapons, equipment, and support for 12 F-16 MLU Block 15 for an estimated cost of $457 million. The Government of Romania has requested a possible sale of weapons, equipment, and support for 12 F-16 MLU Block 15 aircraft that will be procured through a third party transfer from Portugal."

So, the $457 million is the package consisting of weapons, equipment and support, etc and not the F-16s themselves.

Now, let's look at post 1 again.

"In 2013, the Romanian government signed a deal to acquire 12 used F-16 Block 15 fighters from Portugal under a deal worth about €628 million (US $691.5 million)."

Does 691.5m-457m=234.5m USD for 12 jets sound reasonable? I.e. $19.5m per jet? It is a price consistent with price quotes online. e.g.

"While Lockheed Martin will charge about $70 million for a brand new F-16, a second-hand jet will cost just $15 million. For many countries on a budget, that is an attractive offer."
Will Second-Hand F-16 Sales Rise With Budget Cuts?

You may find this interesting reading on the choice faced by Indonesia re. F-16s
The six new aircraft will cost a total of some US$430 million, while upgrading the 24 used F-16 to Block 52 specifications, as demanded by the House, may cost $600 million for engines and another $160 million to $190 million on training for pilots and technicians.
Second-hand F-16s are the best option: Analysts | The Jakarta Post
Used F-16 jets: A tradeoff between quality and quantity | The Jakarta Post
Upgrading 24 older F-16 costs $760m-$790m. So, $190m - $197.5m for upgrading 6. $32.5m-$33m apiece. That is still less than half the price of 6 new, more modern F-16s ($430m, or $71.6m apiece)

 

[Stannis Baratheon]

Pakistan recently made a deal for eight (8) F-16 Block 52 Aircraft, equipment, training, and logistics support for an estimated cost of $699.04 million.

Pakistan got the F-16 from their US Military Aid.

 

[Penguin]

Pakistan got the F-16 from their US Military Aid.

What is your point?

 

[Stannis Baratheon]

What is your point?

Americans will only give aid if you buy their weapons. Also, it would mean that you can use your own money to go for other equipments.

 

[Penguin]

It is a rip-off, specially long term and they could have bought Gripen for 57 million USD like Sweden offered to my country and overall operational cost is cheaper, maintainance is cheaper, etc than F-16 and radar upgrade for Gripen in 2017 will increase detection range of a jet fighter at 300 kilometers and Meteor BVRAAM will be intergrated into C/D Gripen's plus Denel's A-Darter...

Hungarian Air Force (HuAF) Gripen JAS-39 Fighters
The Hungarian government decided on leasing the Swedish Gripen fighter jet instead of 24 American F-16 jets for the Hungarian Air Force. In February 2001 a decision had been made not to purchase new F-16s, but to lease 24 ex USAF F-16 A/Bs. In April 2001 the Swedish Government revised its proposal to offer leased Gripen Jas 39A/Bs. The Gripen lease proposal was financially and politically more attractive. Hungary's national security cabinet decided that the government should begin talks with Sweden on signing a preliminary agreement for the lease of 14 multi-functional Gripen JAS-39 fighters.

In September 2001 Hungary decided to lease 14 Gripen JAS 39A/B. On 23 November 2001 Sweden's Minister for Defence Bjorn von Sydow signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with his Hungarian counterpart Dr Janos Szabo. The MOU entailed Hungary leasing 14 Swedish Gripen aircraft over a 10-year period, which meant that over 10 years, Hungary will lease 14 Gripen aircraft currently operational within the Swedish Air Force.

On 28 December 2001 FMV (The Swedish Defence Materiel Administration) awarded Gripen International, owned jointly by Saab of Sweden and the United Kingdom's BAE SYSTEMS, a contract for the adaptation and support of Swedish Air Force Gripen swing-role fighters designated for use by the Hungarian Air Force. Gripen International will manage the contract as prime contractor and award a number of sub-contracts to ensure the Hungarian requirements are met. The main sub-contract was to Saab AB (approx 1 billion SEK) to adapt the aircraft to Hungarian needs and support the aircraft over the 10 year period. In compliance with the contracts, 110% of the purchase price had to be invested in Hungary by the Swedish party or rather, had to be used to create opportunities of export-expansion to Sweden for Hungarian companies.

Two years later, the following administration ordered more advanced jets and increased the purchase price to nearly its double. In February 2003, the contract was amended to meet HuAF requirements, with the Gripen C/D variant instead of JAS 39 A/B. On 03 February 2003 the Hungarian government signed a combined leasing/sales contract for 14 JAS-39C/D Gripen of the newest generation that replaced a leasing contract from 2001. The initial plans included only a leasing over 10 years of an older Gripen version, which would not have met the requirements concerning the possibility of carrying laser-guided bombs and the air refuelling capacity for full NATO compatibility. The HUF 130-140 billion purchase would form the core of the new Hungarian air force. As Sweden is not a NATO member, the fighters would have to be modified to comply with the alliance's requirements.

In the presence of the Hungarian Defence Minister Imre Szekeres, the 14 Hungarian Gripen fighters were declared operational, ready to take on NATO Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) duty from the Kecskemét airforce base. On 1/9/2009 the Hungarian Air Force declared Gripen operational for QRA tasks (Quick Reaction Alert) over Hungarian territory and air-space. Gripen will now alternate with the remaining MiG-29 fighters on duty providing armed standby protection, to completely replace the Russian built fighters by the end of 2009. "The QRA responsibilities for Gripen in the Hungarian Air Force proves once again that Gripen is a fully NATO interoperable fighter. It is with great pleasure that we see Gripen becoming further established within NATO. We congratulate the Hungarian Air Force and the Hungarian Gripen fighters on this historical event", says Henrik Höjer, Programmes Director at Gripen International.

The Hungarian Air Force announced the assignment of QRA responsibilities to Gripen with a ceremony at the Kecskemét airforce base on 22 December 2008. Representatives from the Hungarian Government and the Hungarian Air Force were present during the ceremony. Later that day two Gripen fighters took off from the Kecskemét airforce base on their first scramble to provide armed standby protection for the first time.

Hungary is the third European nation, after Sweden and the Czech Republic, and the second NATO nation to operate Gripen. The last of the 14 Gripen fighters, bought in an government to government deal between Sweden and Hungary, were formally handed over to Hungary on 28 January 2008. The Hungarian Air Force had already used their Gripen fighters both in Hungary and during international exercises.

The 'Wasp' Squadron will operate the Gripen, and the 'Puma' Squadron will continue to operate the MiG-29.

Commenting on the underfunded state of the country's air force, Hungarian newspaper Magyar Nemzet complained in mid-2015 that "although the Hungarian Air Force has been leasing Swedish JAS 39 Gripen fighter aircraft for nine years, it hasn't been able to buy bombs and other weapons for it due to lack of funding."

The JAS-39 multirole fighter serves as Hungary's main fighter aircraft, with 12 presently. The Air Force had agreed to lease purchase 14 JAS 39 Gripens from Sweden, including 2 dual-seaters and 12 single-seaters, in 2006, at a cost of 13.8 billion forints ($50 million) apiece. The country also had up to two dozen MiG-29 fighters in reserve, which it had previously attempted to auction off.

Hungary was identified by Lockheed Martin officials as one of the possible buyers in presentations to the industry in 2007. Also in a document produced for the Dutch Parliament (Basis Document, 2001) a possible requirement of an unknown number of Hungarian planes to replace the MiG-21 and MiG-29 had been mentioned. However, the facts show this is commercial wishful thinking and has become out of date after the successful introduction (for a 30-year service period 2006-2036) of the Saab Gripen in the Hungarian Air Force. Hungary cannot be considered as a JSF opportunity after the successful introduction of the Saab Gripen. Also there are important budget constraints.

Gripen JAS-39 Fighters - Hungarian Air Force (HuAF) (Magyar Legiero, ML)
The Gripen Sale to Hungary: A Look Back at the Results | SLDInfo

A billion SEK today is 117.34 million U.S. dollars for 14 A/B >$ 8.4 million per aircraft
140 billion Hungarian forints today = 495.88 million U.S. dollars for 14 C/D > $35.4 million per aircraft (4x price of A/Bs)
138 billion Hungarian forints today = 488.80 million U.S. dollars for 14 C/D > $34.9 million per aircraft

Hungary suffers second Gripen crash in two months
IHS Jane's Defence Weekly, 12 June 2015
...
As a result of the crash Hungary's Gripens have been grounded, and will remain so until thorough checks are complete. The Czech Republic is understood to have also grounded its Gripens.

Hungary suffers second Gripen crash in two months | IHS Jane's 360

See also
Hungary: another Saab Gripen incident | AIRheadsFLY.com
Saab put in awkward position on Gripen crash Hungary | AIRheadsFLY.com
Hungarian Defence Force: pilot is likely to have caused Gripen crash in the Czech Republic ‹ Daily News Hungary

Americans will only give aid if you buy their weapons. Also, it would mean that you can use your own money to go for other equipments.

We were busy trying to establish what a reasonable price is for an F-16, new and used. What you are posting is totally beside the point.

 

[flamer84]

That means one used F-16 costs $57 million! Talk about being ripped off.

Upgrade of the fighters,spare parts,weapons,pilots and support personel training are included in this price.