Report: Israel Aerospace Industries handed Morocco a Heron UAV

[Beast]

Japan and South Korea have the means and access to such technology without a problem(access to tech from US and western countries). Anything they want...they can pretty much license produce it(eg Mitsubishi F2). This is in addition to their already well developed industries. In this case there's nothing Ukraine can offer them...they can have anything Ukraine has to offer and more.

As for India...I'm not sure why they are not jumping on that opportunity. Perhaps the ppl in charge don't want to turn away from acquiring foreign off the shelf defense equipment bcuz it gets them huge sums in kickbacks? Perhaps this is also the reason why their domestic projects fail to take off? Again I can't speak with accuracy on behalf of why India hasn't gone this route bcuz I don't make the decisions for them...however they have much of the capacity(in terms of industry), human capital, and money to engage Ukraine. Idk why they are not...and I'm glad that they are not.

Turkey too has enough of an advanced industry to absorb a lot of the tech from Ukraine without a lot of trouble. They have some money to throw at it too. Hence my suggestion that they should go for it. I would also say Pak should do it...although it would take longer for Pak to develop the industrial capacity, human capital, and a general advancement in a lot of different sectors...but unfortunately Pak has no money at the moment.

Don't be misled by the term tech license. The core and key parts are still held by the American or Germans. India despite being so called licensed given by Russian to them to produces AL-31FP engine for their MKI until now is still clueless about how to proceed for their kaveri engine.

Same as the so called license produced of US engine or so called licensed produced of German diiesel engine or transmission gear system. The west are no fool to let you have the known how even you are willing to paid them. Be it allies or foes. Such crucial system is totally off limit.

https://thediplomat.com/2017/10/south-korea-induction-of-new-battle-tank-delayed-by-3-years/

 

[Chhatrapati]

Not known to public? I can't remember how many times Indians have brought this up as a point to gloat over against Pak. They try to score brownie points about how Indian military is "transparent" and "answerable" to the ppl...as opposed to Pak's military. Whatever happened to that? Shouldn't the details of the deal be disclosed? As to where the money is being spent? U don't have to disclose the technical aspects of the systems on Rafale(national security and what not)...but in a "true democracy" the public has the right to know where the money is being spent(or so I've been led to believe by the Indians on here).

I'm sure there was "no corruption" and "no kickbacks" involved right?

Probably because you are "new" to democracy, you don't know how it works. Public need not know the details of the deal, the government has already given a proper explanation and the whole deal was scrutinized by the supreme court, if they didn't find anything, the public is happy. About Indian gloating about the military, we are proud and we take a dig at your military because unlike you our army never violated the constitution by taking over the government no matter how bad they mess up it's the duty of the public to bring them down and put someone else up. So yeah, we are proud of it and we will gloat about it, you just have to deal with it. No amount of double quotes can win you that argument.

 

[Timur]

I dont get it with reasoning.. than it must be political purchase..

if they would have bought chinese uav I would have understand it..


but our turkish members dont think to sell uav, armored vehicles missles to pro saudi region.. they wont buy anything if they can get it elsewhere..

 

[Cookie Monster]

Don't be misled by the term tech license. The core and key parts are still held by the American or Germans. India despite being so called licensed given by Russian to them to produces AL-31FP engine for their MKI until now is still clueless about how to proceed for their kaveri engine.

Same as the so called license produced of US engine or so called licensed produced of German diiesel engine or transmission gear system. The west are no fool to let you have the known how even you are willing to paid them. Be it allies or foes. Such crucial system is totally off limit.

https://thediplomat.com/2017/10/south-korea-induction-of-new-battle-tank-delayed-by-3-years/

I'm not misled by it...I know how license production works. The point is for countries like Japan and South Korea there are no hurdles to jump through to have access to Western tech...unlike Pak, Turkey, etc. They don't have to fear sanctions or being denied the tech they want or need...so it puts no pressure on them to "have" to develop it themselves. They can continue using the license produced versions...until they develop their own(if they want)...if they don't want to...well then they can continue using the license produced version.

However for countries that have been burned by western countries(either denied or sanctioned like Turkey and Pak)...it puts pressure on them to look elsewhere or develop it themselves. Hence why u won't see Japan or SK trying to make a hard push with countries like Ukraine for a JV or something. Do u honestly think Japan can't absorb the tech? Japan is highly advanced.

Probably because you are "new" to democracy, you don't know how it works. Public need not know the details of the deal, the government has already given a proper explanation and the whole deal was scrutinized by the supreme court, if they didn't find anything, the public is happy. About Indian gloating about the military, we are proud and we take a dig at your military because unlike you our army never violated the constitution by taking over the government no matter how bad they mess up it's the duty of the public to bring them down and put someone else up. So yeah, we are proud of it and we will gloat about it, you just have to deal with it. No amount of double quotes can win you that argument.

I can tell by ur post that it really stung what I said. Oh well carry on...it's ur money(the taxpayer) being squandered. Continue being proud of ur military that gives fake medals and invents lies.

 

[Chhatrapati]

I can tell by ur post that it really stung what I said. Oh well carry on...it's ur money(the taxpayer) being squandered. Continue being proud of ur military that gives fake medals and invents lies.

More like you got the answer, now move on.

 

[Beast]

I'm not misled by it...I know how license production works. The point is for countries like Japan and South Korea there are no hurdles to jump through to have access to Western tech...unlike Pak, Turkey, etc. They don't have to fear sanctions or being denied the tech they want or need...so it puts no pressure on them to "have" to develop it themselves. They can continue using the license produced versions...until they develop their own(if they want)...if they don't want to...well then they can continue using the license produced version.

However for countries that have been burned by western countries(either denied or sanctioned like Turkey and Pak)...it puts pressure on them to look elsewhere or develop it themselves. Hence why u won't see Japan or SK trying to make a hard push with countries like Ukraine for a JV or something. Do u honestly think Japan can't absorb the tech? Japan is highly advanced.

Japan is strong in semi-conductor and electronic doesn't mean it can be advanced in metallurgy and aeronautics. Is not about access or not. For South Korea case, they can only sold products to customers when deemed no threat to military deal for US or Germany. It makes them more urgent to develop it's own independent system to further expand their market. But it's not as easy as many thing and take a huge industries with huge talent to support it.

You see the SK are also very keen to develop a rocket industries but so far it's misery to them despite boasted to maybe access to US or Europe rocket tech.

 

[Cookie Monster]

More like you got the answer, now move on.

Lol the answer? That was just u getting ur feathers ruffled and getting passive aggressive. I'm sure the fact that Anil Ambani's reliance being forced on Rafale as the "offset" partner...and Modi running parallel negotiations to the MoD was completely corruption free

In any case...don't bother to reply...after that gem of a reply...I'm not expecting much from u.

 

[Ansu fati]

For those who don’t know currently big defense agreements are signed between ukraine and turkey about UCAVs various ammunitions engines(for multiple platforms) electronic equipment missiles and most likely joint sam medium air defense system
@Chhatrapati heron is good UAV its specs are known to public but paying 16 milion for one unarmed UAV when the price is 10 milion on Wikipedia(probably got info from specialized defense pages) then we can say morocco has overpaid the drone of course
maybe they did pay more in order to get future better access for other israeli(and US) weapons that logic is understandable but we don’t know what are potential future benefits for morroco we are now talking about this particular deal which is reality what is behind the curtain we can only speculate

 

[Cookie Monster]

Japan is strong in semi-conductor and electronic doesn't mean it can be advanced in metallurgy and aeronautics.

Just off the top of my head...IHI comes to mind...not only do they make some of their own engines(like that on P1 Kawasaki) but they also collaborate with and make parts for engines for companies like GE and P&W. To be able to collaborate with and make parts for well established giants like GE and P&W...and to make their own jet engines...they must have sufficiently advanced metallurgy in terms of R&D and the actual application of it. That's just one company that I know of...there must be others with varying different capacities.

For aeronautics...again they have had anything they wanted at their disposal(with the exception of F22). Why would they try to reinvent the wheel when they had enough of a free hand to take an already existing design like the F16 and modify it as they please? Could Pak do that...Pak would never be allowed that. Bcuz they weren't turned away or threatened with sanctions...they were never under pressure to go looking for a solution(domestic or something like Ukraine in this case). It is when a country CANNOT meet its defense needs bcuz it is denied access...that's when it turns to alternatives(like Pak turning to China to develop JF17 in the face of sanctions)...whether that alternative is domestic production or a JV or whatever.

Is not about access or not. For South Korea case, they can only sold products to customers when deemed no threat to military deal for US or Germany. It makes them more urgent to develop it's own independent system to further expand their market. But it's not as easy as many thing and take a huge industries with huge talent to support it.

Hardly any country makes something as time consuming and expensive as defense products just to sell them. Any country I've seen that has a well developed defense industry...it came from the necessity to make defense products for itself. Any sales to other countries are just a byproduct. Could u point to a country with a developed defense industry that solely emerged from a desire to export while that country never had a need for that defense industry for itself?

You see the SK are also very keen to develop a rocket industries but so far it's misery to them despite boasted to maybe access to US or Europe rocket tech.

The biggest threat to South Korea is North Korea...and to a lesser extent China. This is countered by US(US bases and troops stationed in SK, nuclear umbrella, air defense systems like Patriot and THAAD). Having nuclear umbrella and defenses like the Patriot and THAAD...not to mention direct support from US Army, US Navy, and USAF...why on Earth would they need to spend money to develop their own missiles when they have all that? That would just be a waste of money (again to reinvent the wheel).

If there was a possibility that US wouldn't defend them, leave them, sanction them, deny them defenses like Patriot and THAAD...then I can see why they would wanna develop their own capabilities in that regard. Therefore developing missile tech from a defensive point of view(eg SAM systems) is not needed(they are given that protection at a fraction of the cost).

Additionally SK isn't interested in trying to take back NK through force(or even peacefully) bcuz it would wreck their economy. Even if war can be avoided somehow...just the addition of the NK population(considerably poor compared to SK) would be a burden. So from an offensive point of view...as far as missiles go...they don't have a need for it.

 

[Beast]

Just off the top of my head...IHI comes to mind...not only do they make some of their own engines(like that on P1 Kawasaki) but they also collaborate with and make parts for engines for companies like GE and P&W. To be able to collaborate with and make parts for well established giants like GE and P&W...and to make their own jet engines...they must have sufficiently advanced metallurgy in terms of R&D and the actual application of it. That's just one company that I know of...there must be others with varying different capacities.

For aeronautics...again they have had anything they wanted at their disposal(with the exception of F22). Why would they try to reinvent the wheel when they had enough of a free hand to take an already existing design like the F16 and modify it as they please? Could Pak do that...Pak would never be allowed that. Bcuz they weren't turned away or threatened with sanctions...they were never under pressure to go looking for a solution(domestic or something like Ukraine in this case). It is when a country CANNOT meet its defense needs bcuz it is denied access...that's when it turns to alternatives(like Pak turning to China to develop JF17 in the face of sanctions)...whether that alternative is domestic production or a JV or whatever.

Hardly any country makes something as time consuming and expensive as defense products just to sell them. Any country I've seen that has a well developed defense industry...it came from the necessity to make defense products for itself. Any sales to other countries are just a byproduct. Could u point to a country with a developed defense industry that solely emerged from a desire to export while that country never had a need for that defense industry for itself?

The biggest threat to South Korea is North Korea...and to a lesser extent China. This is countered by US(US bases and troops stationed in SK, nuclear umbrella, air defense systems like Patriot and THAAD). Having nuclear umbrella and defenses like the Patriot and THAAD...not to mention direct support from US Army, US Navy, and USAF...why on Earth would they need to spend money to develop their own missiles when they have all that? That would just be a waste of money (again to reinvent the wheel).

If there was a possibility that US wouldn't defend them, leave them, sanction them, deny them defenses like Patriot and THAAD...then I can see why they would wanna develop their own capabilities in that regard. Therefore developing missile tech from a defensive point of view(eg SAM systems) is not needed(they are given that protection at a fraction of the cost).

Additionally SK isn't interested in trying to take back NK through force(or even peacefully) bcuz it would wreck their economy. Even if war can be avoided somehow...just the addition of the NK population(considerably poor compared to SK) would be a burden. So from an offensive point of view...as far as missiles go...they don't have a need for it.

First , Japan makes parts for aeroengine but not all parts. There are some area which may need the best of knowledge to get it right. Japan has not so far demonstrated capable of independently developed a high performance engine. They do have a plan but yet to be seen for end of result.

As for your second comment, I can related it to you, there is indeed such example. China VT-4 tank is developed solely for the purpose of export that Included the powerpack and transmission system. China eat the humble pie when it's VT-1A tank export to Peru is halt due to urkraine not willing to re-export their diesel engine as it clashed with their intention to sell T-84 oplot to Peru too. VT-4 tank engine with 1200-1300hp is totally different from the German licensed 1500hp diesel engine equipped for Type99A tank for the PLA. Which means this engine is developed purely for export and to compete with some of the latest powerpack offered by the west to give China the same edege as western counterpart.

Finally, SK which keen to develop rocket tech for nothing to do with NK but pursing an independent space rocket capacity to challenge Japan and China in satellite business, space exploration and country prestige.

 

[Cookie Monster]

First , Japan makes parts for aeroengine but not all parts. There are some area which may need the best of knowledge to get it right. Japan has not so far demonstrated capable of independently developed a high performance engine. They do have a plan but yet to be seen for end of result.

As I said before...if u have unlimited access to engines already developed by US, Britain, France, etc. it would make no sense to come up with a domestic engine that delivers the same result. Jet engines are costly and risky ventures...if a country has access to acquire/license produce/or some other type of solution that delivers a cost effective solution(a working reliable engine) then it's just a simple waste of money to create a domestic engine(which will do the same job).

As for Japan not having developed an engine domestically...the Kawasaki P1 is powered by the F7 engine developed by IHI.

As for your second comment, I can related it to you, there is indeed such example. China VT-4 tank is developed solely for the purpose of export that Included the powerpack and transmission system. China eat the humble pie when it's VT-1A tank export to Peru is halt due to urkraine not willing to re-export their diesel engine as it clashed with their intention to sell T-84 oplot to Peru too. VT-4 tank engine with 1200-1300hp is totally different from the German licensed 1500hp diesel engine equipped for Type99A tank for the PLA. Which means this engine is developed purely for export and to compete with some of the latest powerpack offered by the west to give China the same edege as western counterpart.
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What I said was that a country focuses on domestic development and building of a defense industry based on its own needs and any exports/sales are a byproduct of it. Meaning a robust defense industry emerges bcuz a country NEEDS it in order to be able to defend itself...the exports are a secondary thing that is a byproduct of having a developed defense industry.
So going back to ur argument of China developing VT4. China's tank development started way back(before VT4) due to China's own defense NEEDS. China didn't start developing it's defense industry to try and get a slice of the export market...but rather to meet its own defense needs. For any country meeting ur own defense needs is the requirement to get their own defense industry started.

If a country's defense needs are met(Japan, South Korea) they are not as pressed to advance their own defense industries. Although they still can develop their own defense industries if they wish...but normally they don't try to create a redundant product(which they can easily acquire).

China can afford to come up with export oriented solutions bcuz it's defense industry is already developed(based on need which comes first). Similar to US making the likes of TigerShark, P8I(Indian variant of P8), F21(India specific F16), F35I(Israel specific), etc. All of this is due to an already developed defense industry(which again was built due to NEED and not bcuz of wanting to export). No country invests billions to develop its defense industry for the sole purpose of exports and not its needs(using SK as an example...their needs are met).

Finally, SK which keen to develop rocket tech for nothing to do with NK but pursing an independent space rocket capacity to challenge Japan and China in satellite business, space exploration and country prestige.

I don't see what Ukraine could offer them(as far as a space program goes) that is much more advanced than what SK can come up with.

 

[Imran Khan]

good for both countries .

 

[Chhatrapati]

Lol the answer? That was just u getting ur feathers ruffled and getting passive aggressive. I'm sure the fact that Anil Ambani's reliance being forced on Rafale as the "offset" partner...and Modi running parallel negotiations to the MoD was completely corruption free

In any case...don't bother to reply...after that gem of a reply...I'm not expecting much from u.

Again, all these are very well scrutinized by the Supreme Court. Even the opposition in India has moved on from this pointless allegation. Modi may be many things, corrupt is not one of them. Also, the offset partner was selected by Rafale from over 70 companies, not by Modi, is it that hard to comprehend?

You should've stayed away from quoting me over a nonissue to take potshots at Indian army. If you don't anything else to say move on. I'm not interested in repeating everything.

 

[DOUBLESHOT]

Moroccans love Jews a lot. Especially their king loves Jews and almost worship to France.
Their official language is French not Arabic or local language.

are you stupid or leaving in parallel universe ? turkey should invest money in educating stupid people like you rather than investing in terrorism in syria iraq and libya.
​

 

[TrMhMt]

are you stupid or leaving in parallel universe ? turkey should invest money in educating stupid people like you rather than investing in terrorism in syria iraq and libya.
​

Hahaha are you high dude? Did you smoke your weed? 100% sure you did.
Terrorism gets meaning with you Arabs... ISIS had many Moroccan terrorists. In Syria your people were terrorising under flag of ISIS and Turkish army fcked them up in the azz then sent to the hell. Now gonna do the same thing in Libya. If you have gut to do something against it, you know where the Libya is don't you?
What did I say is the truth of your country and your nation. I have 5 Moroccan friends and they all say the same things.
You have a king how worships France and love Jews while screwing your entire nation. Our education system is 100 times better that your country's system.
Stop acting like your country isn't a s.ht hole. Whole world knows what type a s.hit your country and your monarch. Even French is your offical language fcking turd. First speak your mother language in your court as the official language.
Fcking brainwashed drug addicted cattle...