What's new

Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

Status
Not open for further replies.
@ Areesh

I was watching his show today and I happen to watch the movie snatch last night, and he just reminded me of the dialog when the villain Governor tells one of his chamchas who was constantly kissing his no sun shine zone;

Governor: To his chamcha, " are you a dog"
Chamcha: no boss
Governor: Then why do you have your tongue up my @$$, you need to take that out because thats what dogs do.

Well Shaty might have been told by his owners the same thing, Chaplusi kam kar yaar, national TV pay ho.
 
The court has extended his remand for another 8 days, and there is no verifiable evidence that he can claim diplomatic immunity.

There are 'threats' being made that he is a diplomat but there is no verifiable evidence , I mean every tom dick and harry who carries a gun cannot be suddenly made into a diplomat.

Among other things in his car , there was also a small telescope , what the hell was that for ? There a serious questions that need to be answered, first and fore most being his presence in the country and what was he doing in Mozzang in the first place ?

Also I’m compelled to say that ever since his arrest the bombings and explosions in Pakistan seem to have spiked
 
The court has extended his remand for another 8 days, and there is no verifiable evidence that he can claim diplomatic immunity.

There are 'threats' being made that he is a diplomat but there is no verifiable evidence , I mean every tom dick and harry who carries a gun cannot be suddenly made into a diplomat.

Among other things in his car , there was also a small telescope , what the hell was that for ? There a serious questions that need to be answered, first and fore most being his presence in the country and what was he doing in Mozzang in the first place ?

Also I’m compelled to say that ever since his arrest the bombings and explosions in Pakistan seem to have spiked


Not true, and yet another example of the mis-information being thrown around.

http://arabnews.com/world/article250480.ece

"By AZHAR MASOOD | ARAB NEWS

Published: Feb 3, 2011 20:17 Updated: Feb 3, 2011 20:17

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s Interior Minister Rehman Malik told the National Assembly on Thursday that Raymond Davis, the American national accused of killing two Pakistani boys in Lahore, traveled to Pakistan on a valid diplomatic visa."
 
Last edited:
Foreign Office did not grant diplomatic status to Davis: US

ISLAMABAD: The United States forcefully presented on Thursday its case for immunity under Geneva Convention for Raymond Davis, the American official accused of double murder in Lahore, but at the same time admitted that Pakistan`s Foreign Office did not grant diplomatic status to `administrative and technical staff` of foreign missions based here.

A diplomatic note was handed over to Foreign Office by the US embassy asking the government to release Davis in accordance with the country`s obligations under international law.

The note said Davis was mentioned, in the request for registration with FO, as non-diplomatic staff only to comply with its regulations which do not accept `technical and administrative` staff of foreign missions as diplomatic staff at the time of issuance of accreditation cards.

The latest edition of Foreign Office`s protocol manual (page 18) requires of all foreign missions to designate `administrative and technical staff` as `non-diplomatic staff`, even though it appears to be a clear deviation from the Vienna Convention`s Article 37, which clearly states “members of the administrative and technical staff of the mission… shall enjoy the privileges and immunities”.

“The embassy complied with MFA (Ministry of Foreign Affairs) instructions,” the diplomatic note said, underscoring that this acknowledgement did not compromise his privileges and immunities under Vienna Convention on diplomatic relations of 1961.

This declaration “did not alter Pakistan`s obligations to honour Mr Davis`s privilege and immunities as an administrative and technical staff member”.

The embassy in its first statement on the Lahore incident had also referred to Davis as a consulate staffer and not a diplomat.

Davis had been notified to Pakistani authorities in January last year as having been assigned to the Islamabad mission as a `member of the administrative and technical staff`.Although over a year has passed since he was first notified by the US embassy, he hasn`t been registered as yet because of what Pakistani officials claim as `unresolved queries`. The American embassy, nevertheless, insists it hadn`t received any reply to its notification in respect of Davis`s posting in Pakistan.

Consequently, his status remained undefined. A US embassy official, at a background briefing for Dawn, said the notification by the embassy made Davis eligible for diplomatic immunity and not registration by FO, which he hadn`t been given as yet.

The diplomatic note further asked the Pakistan government to shed its ambiguous position on the status of the American official. The government, apparently because of feared consequences both domestic and bilateral, has so far been shying away from determining the status of the accused. Although, government officials in private discussions claim that Davis did not have a diplomatic status, publicly their stance has been that the issue would be decided by courts.

The embassy in its note threw the book at the government and accused it of violating both its international obligations and local laws by keeping Davis detained and not deciding on his status.

It reminded the Pakistan government that its own laws provided the procedure for resolving such contentious issues. Although not said explicitly, it implied that the government needed to first decide for itself whether or not it recognised Davis as a diplomat before courts adjudicated on it.

A reference was made to Pakistan`s Diplomatic and Consular Privileges Act of 1972, which states: “If any question arises whether or not any person is entitled to the privilege or immunity under this Act, a certificate issued by or under the authority of the federal government stating any fact relating to the question shall be conclusive evidence of that fact.” And hence the demand that the Foreign Office issue a certificate on his diplomatic status forthwith.

A US diplomat in the background briefing said the US wanted the Pakistan government to decide on the issue one way or the other. “Settling it through the media is ludicrous,” the official added, referring to the intense media debate.

A certification accepting Davis as a diplomat would naturally end the debate and pave way for his release and return to the US, but if the government decided otherwise, the diplomat suggested the matter would be resolved through bilateral negotiations, but wouldn`t say if that meant using the leverages that Washington had with Islamabad.
 
Foreign Office did not grant diplomatic status to Davis: US

ISLAMABAD: The United States forcefully presented on Thursday its case for immunity under Geneva Convention for Raymond Davis, the American official accused of double murder in Lahore, but at the same time admitted that Pakistan`s Foreign Office did not grant diplomatic status to `administrative and technical staff` of foreign missions based here.

A diplomatic note was handed over to Foreign Office by the US embassy asking the government to release Davis in accordance with the country`s obligations under international law.

The note said Davis was mentioned, in the request for registration with FO, as non-diplomatic staff only to comply with its regulations which do not accept `technical and administrative` staff of foreign missions as diplomatic staff at the time of issuance of accreditation cards.

The latest edition of Foreign Office`s protocol manual (page 18) requires of all foreign missions to designate `administrative and technical staff` as `non-diplomatic staff`, even though it appears to be a clear deviation from the Vienna Convention`s Article 37, which clearly states “members of the administrative and technical staff of the mission… shall enjoy the privileges and immunities”.

“The embassy complied with MFA (Ministry of Foreign Affairs) instructions,” the diplomatic note said, underscoring that this acknowledgement did not compromise his privileges and immunities under Vienna Convention on diplomatic relations of 1961.

This declaration “did not alter Pakistan`s obligations to honour Mr Davis`s privilege and immunities as an administrative and technical staff member”.

The embassy in its first statement on the Lahore incident had also referred to Davis as a consulate staffer and not a diplomat.

Davis had been notified to Pakistani authorities in January last year as having been assigned to the Islamabad mission as a `member of the administrative and technical staff`.Although over a year has passed since he was first notified by the US embassy, he hasn`t been registered as yet because of what Pakistani officials claim as `unresolved queries`. The American embassy, nevertheless, insists it hadn`t received any reply to its notification in respect of Davis`s posting in Pakistan.

Consequently, his status remained undefined. A US embassy official, at a background briefing for Dawn, said the notification by the embassy made Davis eligible for diplomatic immunity and not registration by FO, which he hadn`t been given as yet.

The diplomatic note further asked the Pakistan government to shed its ambiguous position on the status of the American official. The government, apparently because of feared consequences both domestic and bilateral, has so far been shying away from determining the status of the accused. Although, government officials in private discussions claim that Davis did not have a diplomatic status, publicly their stance has been that the issue would be decided by courts.

The embassy in its note threw the book at the government and accused it of violating both its international obligations and local laws by keeping Davis detained and not deciding on his status.

It reminded the Pakistan government that its own laws provided the procedure for resolving such contentious issues. Although not said explicitly, it implied that the government needed to first decide for itself whether or not it recognised Davis as a diplomat before courts adjudicated on it.

A reference was made to Pakistan`s Diplomatic and Consular Privileges Act of 1972, which states: “If any question arises whether or not any person is entitled to the privilege or immunity under this Act, a certificate issued by or under the authority of the federal government stating any fact relating to the question shall be conclusive evidence of that fact.” And hence the demand that the Foreign Office issue a certificate on his diplomatic status forthwith.

A US diplomat in the background briefing said the US wanted the Pakistan government to decide on the issue one way or the other. “Settling it through the media is ludicrous,” the official added, referring to the intense media debate.

A certification accepting Davis as a diplomat would naturally end the debate and pave way for his release and return to the US, but if the government decided otherwise, the diplomat suggested the matter would be resolved through bilateral negotiations, but wouldn`t say if that meant using the leverages that Washington had with Islamabad.

"This declaration “did not alter Pakistan`s obligations to honour Mr Davis`s privilege and immunities as an administrative and technical staff member”.
 
A poster here identified as LOGIC is ignoring the facts of record today that Mr. Davis is admitted to have Diplomatic Status.

The fact is all diplomatic staff of the US Dept. of State whatever nation they serve in have Diplomatic Status.

Constant defying of the facts and posting of false drivel does not change the fact that the GOP "admits" that Mr. Davis has diplomatic status, is under a Diplomatic US Passport with a valid Paksitani Diplomatic Visa. All of this is of record with the GOP Minister of Interior and with the US Embassy in Islamabad.

Enough immature stuff.

Time to face up to the history of two robbers who failed in their fourth robbery of record attempt and were taken down when using guns to try to stick up Mr. Davis.

The courts focus now is on who were the robbers, not who is Mr. Davis. The court has already been told by the GOP who Mr. Davis is, a diplomat with diplomatic immunity.
 
FROM INTERNET SITE OF PAKISTANI AFFAIRS dated Feb. 3, 2011

Raymond Davis has full Diplomatic Immunity: US Embassy
February 3, 2011 – 5:40 pm

Islamabad: The United States Government once again calls upon the Government of Pakistan to abide by its obligations under international and Pakistani law and immediately release the American diplomat illegally detained in Lahore. The …

Pak Affairs

Raymond Davis has full Diplomatic Immunity: US Embassy
Submitted by Khawaja Zahid yaqoob on February 3, 2011 – 5:40 PM

Islamabad: The United States Government once again calls upon the Government of Pakistan to abide by its obligations under international and Pakistani law and immediately release the American diplomat illegally detained in Lahore. The U.S. Embassy reiterated to the Government of Pakistan today that his continued detention is a gross violation of international law.[/COLOR

]The U.S. Government has repeatedly communicated to the Government of Pakistan that the illegally detained diplomat enjoys diplomatic immunities under the Vienna Convention of Diplomatic Relations (1961).

The U.S. Government notified the Government of Pakistan on January 20, 2010 that the American diplomat was assigned to the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad as a member of the administrative and technical staff. Under the Vienna Convention and Pakistani domestic law, he is entitled to full criminal immunity and cannot be lawfully arrested or detained.

This morning, the American diplomat was remanded in court without notice to the U.S. government, without his lawyer present, and without translation assistance. He was denied due process and a fair hearing.

We deeply regret that the January 27 events in Lahore resulted in the loss of life following an attack on the diplomat by armed assailants. However, the Government of Pakistan must comply with its obligations under international and Pakistani law and ensure that he has immunity from criminal jurisdiction.


We look forward to working with the Government of Pakistan toward the expeditious resolution of this incident. Responsibility for the safety and well-being of the illegally detained diplomat rests with the Government of Pakistan and Punjab provincial authorities.-U.S. Embassy Islamabad
 
Enough immature stuff.

Time to face up to the history of two robbers who failed in their fourth robbery of record attempt and were taken down when using guns to try to stick up Mr. Davis.

The courts focus now is on who were the robbers, not who is Mr. Davis. The court has already been told by the GOP who Mr. Davis is, a diplomat with diplomatic immunity.

Had John Doe followed the diplomatic protocol and obtained permission, he may have been protected by plain clothes security personnel. But since John Doe was on a covert oop and was driving a fake licence plate vehicle, with illegal sim card cell phones and illegal firearms, that is why he got in trouble. No one forced him to be there in the first place that was his choice.

Vienna convention was formed by Western Countries when the OIC, ASEAN, Saarc or the African Union did not exist and it is time that new conventions are implemented and older ones nullified or modified.
 
Vienna convention was formed by Western Countries when the OIC, ASEAN, Saarc or the African Union did not exist and it is time that new conventions are implemented and older ones nullified or modified.

That may be but until that happens it is the obligation of all countries to abide by it. Or I guess they could decide not to and then put their own diplomats in jeopardy.
 
That may be but until that happens it is the obligation of all countries to abide by it. Or I guess they could decide not to and then put their own diplomats in jeopardy.

May be this is the start and maybe UN may not exist 20 years for now just like the Leage of nations, Warsaw Pact or USSR.

If Pakistani diplomats are caught in US violating diplomatic norms, having fake registrations and license plates, have 3 different leases in 3 villas under 3 different ids, illegal firearms possession, violation of traffic laws, withdrawing 6 figure amount from the bank before the incident with no explanation and murdering US citizens then they should be prosecuted under US law, I totally agree.

There are now 184 million people in Pakistan and 308 million people in US, that makes it 492 million people. We should not sever our ties for one person and let the law decide the dcision.
 
Last edited:
May be this is the start and maybe UN may not exist 20 years for now just like the Leage of nations, Warsaw Pact or USSR.

If Pakistani diplomats are caught in US violating diplomatic norms, having fake registrations and license plates, have 3 different leases in 3 villas under 3 different ids, illegal firearms possession, violation of traffic laws, withdrawing 6 figure amount from the bank before the incident with no explnation and murdering US citizens then they should be prosecuted under US law, I totally agree.

There are now 184 million people in Pakistan and 308 million people in US, that makes it 492 million people. We should not sever our ties for one person and let the law decide the dcision.

I'm afraid the issue of immunity goes far beyond infractions you listed. For instance what about intelligence operations. All major countries run such operations from their embassies. And Pakistan I'm sure is no different.

Then there is always the possibility of a country actually staging a crime to frame a diplomat. As ludicrous as some of that might sound. I am simply driving home the point that diplomatic immunity is what it is for a reason. And people a whole lot smarter then you and me framed it the way it is for a reason.
 
Special treatment’ to Davis challenged​

A WRIT petition has been filed in the Lahore High Court, challenging the alleged special treatment being given to US citizen Raymond Davis, a double murder accused, and pleading that he be treated him as an ordinary accused.
Ishtiaq Chaudhry advocate filed the petition on Thursday, contending that the authorities concerned were treating Davis as a guest being a US national. He said on Thursday, the prosecution/police produced the accused before a magistrate at cantonment courts one hour earlier before the scheduled time.

He alleged that the said act of police was based on malafide intention and to cheat the family and lawyers of Qurtaba Chowk incident victims. He said that due to prosecutionís deceitful act, the defence lawyers had failed to contest the case, violating the spirit of complete justice.

The petitioner further submitted that Davis was to be produced before the magistrate concerned at the Model Town Courts but the prosecution had produced him at Cantonment Courts even on second hearing on Thursday. He pointed out that the police station where the case was registered against Davis fell within the jurisdiction of Model Town Courts but the prosecution with mala fide intention was not following the law.

The petitioner pleaded that the prosecution be directed to act strictly according to law and treat Davis like an ordinary accused.

Plea to try Davis for forgery: A writ petition has been moved in the Lahore High Court, seeking directions for government to prosecute US national Raymond Davis for committing forgery by applying visa under a fake name.

In his petition, Barrister Iqbal Jafree submitted that Davis had got a visa under a fake name which had made the whole process of visa doubtful and the his visa stood cancelled ab intio (from the beginning). He said Raymond Davis used excessive force while gunning down two Pakistani at the Qurtaba Chowk on January 27 that shifted all burden on him.

He pleaded that Davis deserved no special treatment and should be punished for killing and committing fraud. He said issuance of faked-name passport to Davis by the US government was telltale for us.

plea for foreigners’ data: The Lahore High Court chief justice on Thursday sought replies from federal and Punjab governments on a constitutional petition, seeking directions for ministries of interior and foreign affairs to provide the Punjab government complete information/functions about foreigners living in the province. CJ Ijaz Ahmad Chaudhry directed a deputy attorney general and an assistant advocate general to ensure submission of replies within three weeks.

Noshab A Khan advocate had filed the petition under Article 199 of the constitution in the backdrop of murder of two Pakistani youths at Qurtaba Chowk by US citizen Raymond Davis.

The petitioner submitted that the scarcity of correct information about the accused was causing hardships for the public at large and him. He prayed to the court that the ministries of interior and foreign affairs be directed to supply all the necessary information, including their duties and functions, their whereabouts, movements and designs, to the Punjab interior secretary about foreigners in the province.

The lawyer further prayed that the Punjab government be directed to take all the necessary steps to safeguard the precious life and property of citizens, especially from foreigners.
 
Rally warns govt against Davis release​

Rally warns govt against Davis release

Wasim, brother of Fahim, said that they were receiving several offers for acquittal of Raymond from murder charges. They claimed that had been offered money and multiple visas of the US, directly and indirectly. PTI Lahore president Mian Mehmood-ur-Rasheed said that Raymond was a professional killer, adding that he was a Black Water member. He warned the government of consequences of if it used any unlawful means to release Raymond. ISF president Hassan Khan Niazi said if the government provided safe passage to Raymond, they would take law into their hands and kill every American present in the US Consulate by gaining entry into the Consulate.
 
Raymond Davis must face the music

By Shaukat Qadir

Some days ago, a security consultant by the name of Raymod Davis employed by the US consulate in Lahore, shot and killed two young men in Lahore in broad daylight. He was overtaken by the two men, who were riding a motorcycle, when he stopped at a red traffic light. A backup vehicle summoned by Davis from the consulate, jumped the curb on the wrong side of the road, running over and killing an innocent bystander on a motorcycle. The backup vehicle escaped, but Davis was apprehended.

That Davis was no ordinary technician, as was initially claimed, was immediately obvious to the discerning from his ability to use a handgun. Anybody who has used one can tell you that it requires considerable expertise to put a bullet in a target, even at short-range. Raymond fired eight rounds and each one found its mark; four to each dead body. What is more, after killing them, Raymond walked up to the bodies to calmly photograph them on his mobile phone; all the hallmarks of a true professional.

Both dead men also had handguns on them; one in a holster, the other lying on the road; but neither weapon had been discharged! Raymond claimed self-defence with the plea that he had only just withdrawn a large sum of money and these boys were seeking to rob him; this is well within the realms of possibility. Such incidents are not uncommon on our roads. However, foul play was suspected when it was discovered that each body had two bullets in the back; probably the ones resulting in their deaths. Now, if one is experienced with the use of weapons, one is aware that if the first round hits an individual, let us say, on the shoulder, its force will turn him around, though usually not 180 degrees. Even if the latter were possible, two bullets in the back of each? That would make anyone suspect!

What is more, if they were seeking to rob him, he could only be certain if at least one had drawn a weapon. The fact that one weapon was lying on the ground makes it a possibility that the weapon was in the hands of one of the boys or, alternately, it could have fallen from his belt, if it was not in a strap down holster. However, even if the young men were amateurs, which also is distinctly possible, and the first bullet to hit one only injured him, he should still have been able to release at least one round.

Davis has been charged under section 302 of the Pakistan Penal Code, (PPC) i.e. murder with intent. If convicted, he could be sentenced to life imprisonment, or death.

Ironically, despite the fact that the incident took place in broad daylight, witnessed, presumably, by hundreds of people, the public has not been made aware of any details of the incident: Was it a robbery? Did the young men draw their weapons first? Were they even facing Davis threateningly? Admittedly, people may not have been paying attention initially, but even a true professional would take a few seconds to let loose eight rounds at two different targets, even if they were close together. Time enough for neighbouring pedestrians and commuters to see some details of the incident. If they did, the media has not relayed much. Consequently, we have to make assumptions from the known facts and give Davis the benefit of the doubt, if and where it is due. From the known facts, the evidence appears fairly damning.

Finally, the US consulate has admitted that Raymond Davis is not his real name, but has not disclosed the real one. We shall, therefore, continue to address him by his pseudonym. We also now know that he is an employee of Hyperion Protective Consultants — a security firm less well-known than its famous and far larger competitor, Xe.

As expected, the US administration is exerting considerable pressure on Pakistan, demanding that he be granted diplomatic immunity, even though he is not a diplomat and was in possession of an ordinary passport when arrested; later, a diplomatic passport was offered to the police!

Domestically, there is a peculiar tussle going on. Had the incident occurred in Islamabad, the central government might well have granted Raymond diplomatic immunity. However, the incident occurred in the jurisdiction of the Punjab police. Despite US pressure, the central government is helpless, having no jurisdiction. The Sharif brethren stand firmly in defiance, and insist that “the courts will decide”. So far, it seems likely that Davis will have to face the music and the likelihood of conviction. The PPP is quite happy, so long as the US ire is directed at the Sharif brothers. Like many other politicians, they labour under the fond belief that Pakistani elections take place in Washington DC; and this incident might seal the next election in their favour! To add flavour to the whole affair, our honest interior minister has finally ‘admitted’ to the Senate that Raymond did, in fact, have a diplomatic visa; ironically, his last visa on this ‘diplomatic’ passport was issued in Islamabad!

This is not the only instance where employees and diplomats of the US embassy have been found in possession of weapons, sometimes more lethal ones than a Glock. Some have even brandished them to threaten locals; though this is the first instance of a weapon having been fired.

Some people are quick to accuse our intelligence agencies; unfairly, I think. The real culprit is the central government, under whose instructions our embassy in Washington issues visas to all and sundry, no questions asked. With so many well-armed American citizens roaming our streets, this was a disaster waiting to happen. Davis must face the music in order to send a message to Washington: We have, to our shame, given you carte blanche to kill our citizens with drone attacks, but we will not permit murder in our streets.

If we don’t send this message, he will only be the first of others!

Published in The Express Tribune, February 4th, 2011.


Raymond Davis must face the music – The Express Tribune
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom