Rajputs, Jats and Gujjars

[Hamza913]

I've been thinking recently, what do you guys think about these titles?

Gujjars, Jats and Rajputs are each pretty big groups with plenty of sub-groups among them. Many of them (e.g Chauhans) are in fact shared among all three. Not only that, but unlike other tribes in Pakistan, these ones don't denote people of a common origin. Each clan claims a different origin, all that unites them is the fact that they intermarry with each other. You even have some clans that are also sometimes considered tribes in their own right. Even in terms of occupation, Jats and Gujjars have been pretty diverse.

Not only that, but if Pakistanis want to distance ourselves from Indians, wouldn't it better to just drop such names? You get plenty of Indian Jats, Rajputs and Gujjars, but you really won't find many Indians belonging to same clans of these groups as most Pakistanis. Not only that, but Hinduism is often strongly connotated with these groups.

EDIT:

Thought I should clarify for all the dummies making a "hoo-ha" that I have no problem with anyone calling themselves a Rajput, Jat or Gujjar. I myself have no qualms in admitting I'm a Gujjar. I'm just making a thread about the topic to see where others stand.

Your thoughts?

@Muslimrenaissance @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indus Pakistan @Samlee @AfrazulMandal @iqbal Ali @Talwar e Pakistan @Areesh @Zibago @TMA @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @waz

 

[Yankee-stani]

I am a Chohan and Rajput tho my family on my dad side had mixed in a lot with the Pathans in the past I really think we should ditch the clans they have a rich history no doubt but we should promote a Iranic cultural identity and this can break off links with India

 

[Hamza913]

I am a Chohan and Rajput tho my family on my dad side had mixed in a lot with the Pathans in the past I really think we should ditch the clans they have a rich history no doubt but we should promote a Iranic cultural identity and this can break off links with India

Most of us aren't Iranic, so such an idea makes no sense.

Even people like me and you who have some Iranic ancestry are pretty much completely isolated from it now. And it's not even our paternal lineage which is what counts in our part of the world.

I only support rejecting names like Rajput, Jat or Gujjar since they don't denote a common paternal heritage and unnecessarily link us with India and Hinduism.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Look I can debate about our Iranic origins all the time but If we want to break this link with Ganga I think its better to develop better cultural ties with Iran, yeah yeah many Pakistanis will complain about Iran being Shia and blah blah how Iranians are this and that but I argue that we gotta closer cultural links to Persia than Arabs in the Gulf we can gel in just drop the sectarian banner @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan I think this better than the whole closeness with Arabs and Turks, Gulf Arabs are meh Turks are Secular Nationalists

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Clans are known by lineages, place of origin, and our sub-clans.

I can’t speak for the others you mentioned, but Rajputs are of three main sub-clans. This is how we know who is an authentic Rajput and who is not.

Generally among Pakistani Rajputs, there is a strong connection with kinship and heritage. Sikhs also share it.

When I ask a supposed Indian Hindu Rajput what is their lineage and clan, all I get are blank stares. They don’t keep lineages like we do. Many Indians also keep Rajput surnames though they are not Rajputs. In this instance, it is impossible to verify.

In short, we are proud of our heritage and the lineage which shows our evolution to Islam. Rajputs have always been on the frontlines of the Islamic conquest (first against it and later its chief soldiers, generals, statesmen) and even today we are working to defend Pakistan from its enemies.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Clans are known by lineages, place of origin, and our sub-clans.

I can’t speak for the others you mentioned, but Rajputs are of three main sub-clans. This is how we know who is an authentic Rajput and who is not.

Generally among Pakistani Rajputs, there is a strong connection with kinship and heritage. Sikhs also share it.

When I ask a supposed Indian Rajput, all I get are blank stares. They don’t keep lineages like we do. Many Indians also keep Rajput surnames though they are not Rajputs. In this instance, it is impossible to verify.

In short, we are proud of our heritage and the lineage which shows our evolution to Islam. Rajputs have always been on the frontlines of the Islamic conquest (first against it and later its chief soldiers, generals, statesmen) and even today we are working to defend Pakistan from its enemies.

No one is complaining about Rajputs and the cultural greatness that had at one point but we have a bit of a cultural amnesia since 1947 this is the reason we are failing we dont have a coherent identity as Pakistanis first we had wave of migrants from all over India, then you had the East Bengal situation which made forming a core Pakistani identity a struggle, Jinnah wanted Dari as a language at first he had to compromise with Urdu because of the East Bengal and then that did not work 1971 came and crushed a blow to a "Multicultural Pakistan" and the 1970s with the rise of Petro Oil Sheikhs in the Gulf and the greed of the politicians in Islamabad they let our national culture and identity in flux which we are in today thankfully nowadays the USSR is gone, Afghanistan well I hate those f...ckers but they could be close link once the Yankee is gone and we could improve cultural links with Iran and plus Pasthuns are gaining foot held in Pakistani Govt and Society

 

[Tea addict]

Clans are known by lineages, place of origin, and our sub-clans.

I can’t speak for the others you mentioned, but Rajputs are of three main sub-clans. This is how we know who is an authentic Rajput and who is not.

Generally among Pakistani Rajputs, there is a strong connection with kinship and heritage. Sikhs also share it.

When I ask a supposed Indian Hindu Rajput what is their lineage and clan, all I get are blank stares. They don’t keep lineages like we do. Many Indians also keep Rajput surnames though they are not Rajputs. In this instance, it is impossible to verify.

In short, we are proud of our heritage and the lineage which shows our evolution to Islam. Rajputs have always been on the frontlines of the Islamic conquest (first against it and later its chief soldiers, generals, statesmen) and even today we are working to defend Pakistan from its enemies.

Funny thing about this lie is that only indian Hindu Rajputs follow gotra marriage tradition which is solely based on lineage and clan. It's only the Hindu Rajputs whose 300-400 years old lineage can be easily found as we preserve it in Haridwar and update it after death or birth of any member. What's more funny is that the Rajputs of Rajputana don't even consider Pakistani Rajputs as Rajputs.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I only support rejecting names like Rajput, Jat or Gujjar since they don't denote a common paternal heritage and unnecessarily link us with India and Hinduism.

In Central Punjab (Lahore,etc.,) we are half the population. We are thoroughly linked and embedded in the structure and way of life of Punjab.

Rajputs and related groups like Jats, Gujjars, Bajwas, Bhattis have been part of this region since time immemorial.

A Muslim Rajput would rather commit sepukku than claim anything in common with India or Hinduism.

Funny thing about this lie is that only indian Hindu Rajputs follow gotra marriage tradition which is solely based on lineage and clan. It's only the Hindu Rajputs whose 300-400 years old lineage can be easily found as we preserve it in Haridwar and update it after death or birth of any member. What's more funny is that the Rajputs of Rajputana don't even consider Pakistani Rajputs as Rajputs.

This is why we don’t consider you Rajputs, you talk big but you are mostly full of hot air.

Half of you stole our surnames and many of you use them as first names like Raj, Rani, etc.

Real Rajput blood makes us tall, muscular, fair-skinned with light hair.

This because of our nomadic Central Asian Irani origin.

No one is complaining about Rajputs and the cultural greatness that had at one point but we have a bit of a cultural amnesia since 1947 this is the reason we are failing we dont have a coherent identity as Pakistanis first

Muslim and Pakistani first. I consider the two almost synonymous in importance of our identity.

Ethnicity, language, province second.

Matter resolved.

By the way, like the rest of us, Pakistani Rajputs have also begun marrying outside tribe.

 

[Samlee]

Most of us aren't Iranic, so such an idea makes no sense.

Even people like me and you who have some Iranic ancestry are pretty much completely isolated from it now. And it's not even our paternal lineage which is what counts in our part of the world.

I only support rejecting names like Rajput, Jat or Gujjar since they don't denote a common paternal heritage and unnecessarily link us with India and Hinduism.

Actually The Part Of Pakistan From Where I Hail Has Had Greater Links To Iran and Afghanistan Than India.Iranian Cultural Influence Has Been Great On The Subcontinent As Well For Centuries.Remeber Court Language Was Persian

 

[Sine Nomine]

Funny thing about this lie is that only indian Hindu Rajputs follow gotra marriage tradition which is solely based on lineage and clan. It's only the Hindu Rajputs whose 300-400 years old lineage can be easily found as we preserve it in Haridwar and update it after death or birth of any member. What's more funny is that the Rajputs of Rajputana don't even consider Pakistani Rajputs as Rajputs.

We do same,lineage over 800 years is preserved and updated.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

I've been thinking recently, what do you guys think about these titles?

Gujjars, Jats and Rajputs are each pretty big groups with plenty of sub-groups among them. Many of them (e.g Chauhans) are in fact shared among all three. Not only that, but unlike other tribes in Pakistan, these ones don't denote people of a common origin. Each clan claims a different origin, all that unites them is the fact that they intermarry with each other. You even have some clans that are also sometimes considered tribes in their own right. Even in terms of occupation, Jats and Gujjars have been pretty diverse. So I really don't see a point to us using such titles.

Not only that, but if Pakistanis want to distance ourselves from Indians, wouldn't it better to just drop such names? You get plenty of Indian Jats, Rajputs and Gujjars, but you really won't find many Indians belonging to same clans of these groups as most Pakistanis. Not only that, but Hinduism is often strongly connotated with these groups.

Your thoughts?

@Muslimrenaissance @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Indus Pakistan @Samlee @AfrazulMandal @iqbal Ali @Talwar e Pakistan @Areesh @Zibago @TMA @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @waz

Not at all, we should never break our links with our ancestors; these three groups combined would make up a majority of Punjab's population. Yes, some of them overlap into India and even Afghanistan; but their heartland is in Pakistan.

All of these groups are significantly higher proportion in Pakistan than they are in India.

Jat population:
Pakistan: 16%
India: 2-3%

Gujjar population:
Pakistan: 10-15% (varies on sources)
India: 1-2% (varies on sources)

Rajput population:
Pakistan: 8-10%
India: 3.43%

 

[Sine Nomine]

@Taimur Khurram these are clans not titles.

 

[313ghazi]

It's heritage, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

What's more funny is that the Rajputs of Rajputana don't even consider Pakistani Rajputs as Rajputs.

Rajputana no longer exists and hasn’t for thousands of years.

 

[MastanKhan]

Look I can debate about our Iranic origins all the time but If we want to break this link with Ganga I think its better to develop better cultural ties with Iran, yeah yeah many Pakistanis will complain about Iran being Shia and blah blah how Iranians are this and that but I argue that we gotta closer cultural links to Persia than Arabs in the Gulf we can gel in just drop the sectarian banner @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan I think this better than the whole closeness with Arabs and Turks, Gulf Arabs are meh Turks are Secular Nationalists

Hi,

We don't need to get closer cultural ties with Iran just because of our heritage---. My maternal and paternal side is of Iranian heritage---but that was centuries ago---. I am the son of the soil that is---Pakistan---and that is my identity---.


Get closer to Iran and become titled as a full fledged terrorist state and a Pariah nation---.

W'Allah---Ain't you of brilliant thinking---.