Rail-bus; Interim Solution for the Karachi Circular Railway?

[FuturePAF]

The Perfect is the enemy of the good. The Karachi Circular Railway seems to keep stalling, and funding is an issue. Considering the tracks are already present in many areas, and the rest of the areas have been cleared of squatters; why doesn't the railways just lay down basic tracks, and run used Rail-buses to jump start the project. It would not need the expensive electrical connection via a catenary system above but run on diesel.

Once the demand is Present, investors will come and upgrade the network. A simple, basic, but functional system is better then squandering decade after decade squabbling about how to start the project.

KCR could procure either used foreign Rail-buses, or build a small fleet of their own. They don't look impressive, but they seem highly functional and seem to be getting the job done on a budget

we need to remember, this would be a temporary solution to draw investment due to the high ridership numbers and profit potential for any investor.

Current State of the KCR

Options

Or we could import new build DMUs from China as has been done in Bangladesh

More information from a Russian documentary on Railbus use
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFu3w5XTGqE

============
Buying DMU Rail-Buses could still be used in other cities as commuter trains once the Karachi Circular Railway is built. So Railbus can be a good interim to building a proper metro-train system, especially where demand has to be built up but the tracks are already there, and finances are limited.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

This is really sad that we all know that how important this project is for Pakistan and karachi specially but its like impossible to make it we need new breed of politicians who atleast know what is impt for Pak like Kalabagh dam all in vain.

 

[FuturePAF]

This is really sad that we all know that how important this project is for Pakistan and karachi specially but its like impossible to make it we need new breed of politicians who atleast know what is impt for Pak like Kalabagh dam all in vain.

It doesn't need to be impossible. We just need to strip the project down to the bare minimum to get it going. Once its up and running, the daily ridership alone should be enough to let us know how much is prudent to invest into the project. International investor will come as soon as they can see profit to be made. We just need to get the ball rolling with something practical and basic, and cheap.

A fleet of 20 Rail-buses and all the old tracks repaired to make them functional and safe, and you have a simple train set. If demand goes up, we add more rail-buses. Once we have a system with ridership number to show and investor, we can open up the competition to international bidding.

If we don't do something the encroachment will come back, and Karachi will be left behind. If Any one wants to make a name for themselves, it should be the mayor of Karachi. 20 used Rail-buses, and old tracks rebuilt shouldn't cost more a few million dollars, but the momentum will get the people hopeful for the KCR and Karachi in general.

Rail-buses are a cheap way to bring back limited commuter rail service on the existing tracks we already have through out the country.

It could also be a reliable way to get commuters and travelers from the other mainlines in Punjab to Main line 1.
Rail-buses could be a reliable way to bridge the Main line 1 stations and the cities they are near, such as Rohri and Sukkur, without the passengers having to arrange for separate bus, rickshaw, or taxi transportation to compete the last few miles.

 

[jupiter2007]

Give entire project to South Korea. Let them build the track, stations, and bring the trains. It might be expense but they can do it in less than 2 years.

 

[FuturePAF]

Give entire project to South Korea. Let them build the track, stations, and bring the trains. It might be expense but they can do it in less than 2 years.

I'm sure South Korea, Japan, or China could do the job and do it well in a few years. The issue is getting just the best price for the first loop, so that we can afford to fund the expansions that are needed to truly make this a network that serves the whole city. If Demand turns out to be very high, then the BRT routes will eventually need to be turned int to Metro Lines, because metro buses will not have enough capacity. Upgrading an already functional system will be more likely to quickly recover its investment then starting from scratch.

We need to plan for the nation's population to double in the next 30-40 years. Hence why we need to get the core of the system done at the cheapest price, so that we leave room to be able to finance future growth.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1158772

 

[Cornered Tiger]

This project is under CPEC. Once the hurdles dried up, it will be a smooth going.

 

[FuturePAF]

This project is under CPEC. Once the hurdles dried up, it will be a smooth going.

Which hurdles are holding up the project?

 

[Cornered Tiger]

Which hurdles are holding up the project?

Foremost is Land clearance.
Then Land ownership.
Then Design changes, which will lead to new feasibility and new agreement eventually.
And then finally we can start construction.

 

[AZ1]

Keep go round and round i say until PPP exists no institution can ever go green.
We already have example our railway system, PIA, Steel Mill and go on.

 

[FuturePAF]

Foremost is Land clearance.
Then Land ownership.
Then Design changes, which will lead to new feasibility and new agreement eventually.
And then finally we can start construction.

Any real progress on this front? There seems to be some land clearance, but I’m not sure about land ownership status. Shouldn’t it be obvious, as the land owned by the KCR originally is still land owned by the KCR.

 

[Syed1.]

Any real progress on this front? There seems to be some land clearance, but I’m not sure about land ownership status. Shouldn’t it be obvious, as the land owned by the KCR originally is still land owned by the KCR.

Imagine this, 60% of the land is owned by Sindh government and 40% by Pakistan Railways/Federal government, and this is what is causing the issue. They keep pointing fingers at each other for last 2-3 decades


Pakistan is perhaps the most misgoverned country out there. What was the logic behind splitting the land between two different entities

Better would be to give the whole route to a new completely independent entity and if the train service is not upto standard then have accountability against them.

 

[Mujahid Memon]

The Perfect is the enemy of the good. The Karachi Circular Railway seems to keep stalling, and funding is an issue. Considering the tracks are already present in many areas, and the rest of the areas have been cleared of squatters; why doesn't the railways just lay down basic tracks, and run used Rail-buses to jump start the project. It would not need the expensive electrical connection via a catenary system above but run on diesel.

Once the demand is Present, investors will come and upgrade the network. A simple, basic, but functional system is better then squandering decade after decade squabbling about how to start the project.

KCR could procure either used foreign Rail-buses, or build a small fleet of their own. They don't look impressive, but they seem highly functional and seem to be getting the job done on a budget

we need to remember, this would be a temporary solution to draw investment due to the high ridership numbers and profit potential for any investor.

Current State of the KCR

Options

Or we could import new build DMUs from China as has been done in Bangladesh

More information from a Russian documentary on Railbus use
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFu3w5XTGqE

============
Buying DMU Rail-Buses could still be used in other cities as commuter trains once the Karachi Circular Railway is built. So Railbus can be a good interim to building a proper metro-train system, especially where demand has to be built up but the tracks are already there, and finances are limited.

Unfortunately we are a highly inefficient nation. We need new things built by billions and billions of dollars and throw it away after a few years. Last time I talked about improving the bus system in Karachi before starting metro projects since we have limited funds, but I got a lot of abuses from my own countrymen because what was I was talking had a greater bang for the buck.

 

[jupiter2007]

I'm sure South Korea, Japan, or China could do the job and do it well in a few years. The issue is getting just the best price for the first loop, so that we can afford to fund the expansions that are needed to truly make this a network that serves the whole city. If Demand turns out to be very high, then the BRT routes will eventually need to be turned int to Metro Lines, because metro buses will not have enough capacity. Upgrading an already functional system will be more likely to quickly recover its investment then starting from scratch.

We need to plan for the nation's population to double in the next 30-40 years. Hence why we need to get the core of the system done at the cheapest price, so that we leave room to be able to finance future growth.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1158772

Give them 60% ownership of the entire things, let them build it, run it and make the money back of what they invested.

 

[FuturePAF]

Imagine this, 60% of the land is owned by Sindh government and 40% by Pakistan Railways/Federal government, and this is what is causing the issue. They keep pointing fingers at each other for last 2-3 decades


Pakistan is perhaps the most misgoverned country out there. What was the logic behind splitting the land between two different entities

Better would be to give the whole route to a new completely independent entity and if the train service is not upto standard then have accountability against them.

Agreed, The land should be handed over to a new Corporation: The KCR company, that answers directly to the Prime Minister. The same should be for any national metro projects. The less the politics the better. These companies should be run as just that, companies, so that they can at least recover their operating costs.

 

[jupiter2007]

Agreed, The land should be handed over to a new Corporation: The KCR company, that answers directly to the Prime Minister. The same should be for any national metro projects. The less the politics the better. These companies should be run as just that, companies, so that they can at least recover their operating costs.

Federal government should buy the land from Sindh government.
I would avoid Chinese and go with Japan or Korean company. Let them bring their resources to design and build the whole circular railway. (keep the high court and Supreme Court away from this project). Give them 60% ownership ship, 40% can go to federal government. Whoever they hire as the subcontractor, they will make sure that all the work is done properly. Once project is completed and the system is operational, let them operate and manage it. It will finish on time without any delays and it will be build with top priority and best standards.

Japanese are already interested in this project, or at least they were 5 to 8 years ago.