Punjab chief of Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan arrested

[fatman17]

^^^Hang Him High!!!

 

[Ahmad]

Take all the information out of him and then hang him in the public. The taliban have no mercy on other people's lives why the others should have mercy on them.

 

[EjazR]

It only takes 1 link to bust the whole conspiracy. Admitted these are harder to disprove given whatever fabricated evidence CIA and FBI has out there. But given that Adam Ghaddan is a CIA/FBI agent - which should be clear by now - the whole plot is wide open.

He was around 20 years old when he went to Pakistan in 98. Are you saying that 20 year olds are now being recruited by FBI/CIA and that they are so sophisticated that they can "brainwash" 1000s of Arabs and Pakistanis?

Please search for Haitham Bundjaki, the Imam who mentioned that after converting to Islam, he would associate with extremists and fight and argue with him on being to "americanised"

And haven't there been numerous arrests of arabs. Does that mean Saudi Arabia, Alegria, UAE, Kuwait are now involved in destabilizing Pakistan as well. It is also known the their sympathizers in the gulf also provide a lot of financial support. Their manuals in the Arabic language have been found. Uzbeks and Uighuirs have been present in large numbers. In fact even Sudanese and Bangladeshis have been found. But guess what no Indians till now. Not even Indian muslims.

Even the arms supplies are more of soviet, Chinese and American origin. IMO these would be brought off the black arms market.

I just ask you to give appropriate weight to that which is clearly apparent. I can't claim to know everything and even if we do assume Indian involvement, whats apparent points to a hardly significant involvement by them.

Which Taliban groups are you talking about here? There's 2, mainly TTP and Afghan Taliban. Links of Kashmiri freedom fighters with Afghan Taliban are pretty well known, and Punjab based terrorists with TTP are known too. Anything I am missing something?

Only time I heard of Mehsud being called a patriot was way back around early 2008 from Hamid Gul.

Well there is clearly a TTP Punjab and TTP Kashmir. There every well may be a Sindh and Baluchistan chapter.

The names do not matter, but the end goal of all these groups are the same and that is to establish a so called "Islamic state" weather it is in Kashmir Pakistan or Afghanistan, or in the extended Central Asia or Chinese Xinjiang. That is why they will co-operate and support each other. But I agree that, they are autonomous in the sense that they are not headed by a single commander.

The video cannot be seen, even on the link you posted in your post on that topic. But nevertheless, TTP have been there for a while, but their main financial and weapon support comes from india. They really took off after Lal Masjid incident where they were able to rally support and get a lot of recruits. Perhaps I need to clear something. I am not denying that it is TTP terrorists carrying out the attacks. What I am suggesting is that they are getting financial support as well as material support (weapons and training) from india.

Sure, if you want to look at it that way. Doesn't make what India is doing right.

I have been over this before. No time now to go over it again.

Wrong here. They have given proof not just for Balochistan involvement but involvement with TTP. And Musharraf as also accused India for supporting TTP. You might be recall one of those times earlier this year when he went to India and talked in Delhi at some show. He openly accused India of supporting TTP there.

Here is a direct link to the forum that hosts the entire video. It will be well worth you 40 minutes so I suggest you go through it
Pak Politics | Political Shows | Forum | Discussion | Columns | Talks | Pakistan News | Videos - View topic - Jirga ? 22nd October 2009

Also check out this Dec newline:
Army official calls Baitullah Mehsud, Fazlullah ‘patriots’

I don't need to elaborate on Dr Usman and the GHQ attacks. But as you can see there are some pretty apparent links here that don't directly tie Indians.

Even if there is any Indian "aid" it seems that it is not tactical or strategic, nor is it manpower. And this is what is the most important for any group, financial and arms are interrelated and these could be garnered from other sources as well like taxing drug money, donations from sympathizers, the so called "jizya" ransoms or plain old looting.

TTP is just a new name given, but attacks against the govt. were ongoing soon after Musharraf's U-turn. Was there no operation in Waziristan in 2004? Were there no attacks on tribal heads and MLAs in the tirbal and NWFP areas. Even Hamid Mir presented his heart wrenched report on how waziristan has completely out of Pakistani control in early 2008. The Lal masjid only intensified and organized these disparate groups under TTP.

The extremists trained by ISI are not the ones in TTP - for the most part. Recall Afghan Taliban. They were trained by ISI and are not the ones attacking Pakistan. They are enemies of TTP, if anything. TTP members are new recruits from poor and illiterate backgrounds.

No ISI alone is certainly not at fault. It might have suffered from lack of civilian strategic foresight in formulating the Kashmir and Afghan policies when training these so called "mujahideen" and hence become a victim of the law of unintended consequences.

Moreover, the US/western and Arab countries (even Israel and China) funneled all there extremists and/or equipment and training into Pakistan tribal areas.

I think it is wrong when only ISI is blamed for this when clearly CIA had extensive involvement in nurturing extremist groups as well for their short term anti-communist agenda. Even Aghan Taliban was supported tacitly by the Americans initially because of the Israeli lobby (due to their anti shia and hence anti Iran stance) and oil lobbies like Unocal.

But there is no point in underestimating TTP recruits. Only the suicide bombers may fall into that category. Their core group was trained by the leading intelligence agencies in the world in subversive and guerrilla warfare tactics. All these have been collated and improved and taught to further generations since the 80s. And when you have retired army officers like Dr. Usman in the GHQ attacks things clearly don't seem that just illiterate people are involved.

 

[SSGPA1]

Huge achievement by the agencies!!!!

I pray that people like Imran Khan stop playing devil's advocate.

 

[pak-yes]

Now Army and ISI should act quickly after extracting all the info they should immediately bring him on the nation television and he must confess all of his crimes there so that the ppl know the real reality of Taliban .

 

[All-Green]

He was around 20 years old when he went to Pakistan in 98. Are you saying that 20 year olds are now being recruited by FBI/CIA and that they are so sophisticated that they can "brainwash" 1000s of Arabs and Pakistanis?

Please search for Haitham Bundjaki, the Imam who mentioned that after converting to Islam, he would associate with extremists and fight and argue with him on being to "americanised"

And haven't there been numerous arrests of arabs. Does that mean Saudi Arabia, Alegria, UAE, Kuwait are now involved in destabilizing Pakistan as well. It is also known the their sympathizers in the gulf also provide a lot of financial support. Their manuals in the Arabic language have been found. Uzbeks and Uighuirs have been present in large numbers. In fact even Sudanese and Bangladeshis have been found. But guess what no Indians till now. Not even Indian muslims.

Even the arms supplies are more of soviet, Chinese and American origin. IMO these would be brought off the black arms market.

I just ask you to give appropriate weight to that which is clearly apparent. I can't claim to know everything and even if we do assume Indian involvement, whats apparent points to a hardly significant involvement by them.



Well there is clearly a TTP Punjab and TTP Kashmir. There every well may be a Sindh and Baluchistan chapter.

The names do not matter, but the end goal of all these groups are the same and that is to establish a so called "Islamic state" weather it is in Kashmir Pakistan or Afghanistan, or in the extended Central Asia or Chinese Xinjiang. That is why they will co-operate and support each other. But I agree that, they are autonomous in the sense that they are not headed by a single commander.


Here is a direct link to the forum that hosts the entire video. It will be well worth you 40 minutes so I suggest you go through it
Pak Politics | Political Shows | Forum | Discussion | Columns | Talks | Pakistan News | Videos - View topic - Jirga ? 22nd October 2009

Also check out this Dec newline:
Army official calls Baitullah Mehsud, Fazlullah ‘patriots’

I don't need to elaborate on Dr Usman and the GHQ attacks. But as you can see there are some pretty apparent links here that don't directly tie Indians.

Even if there is any Indian "aid" it seems that it is not tactical or strategic, nor is it manpower. And this is what is the most important for any group, financial and arms are interrelated and these could be garnered from other sources as well like taxing drug money, donations from sympathizers, the so called "jizya" ransoms or plain old looting.

TTP is just a new name given, but attacks against the govt. were ongoing soon after Musharraf's U-turn. Was there no operation in Waziristan in 2004? Were there no attacks on tribal heads and MLAs in the tirbal and NWFP areas. Even Hamid Mir presented his heart wrenched report on how waziristan has completely out of Pakistani control in early 2008. The Lal masjid only intensified and organized these disparate groups under TTP.




No ISI alone is certainly not at fault. It might have suffered from lack of civilian strategic foresight in formulating the Kashmir and Afghan policies when training these so called "mujahideen" and hence become a victim of the law of unintended consequences.

Moreover, the US/western and Arab countries (even Israel and China) funneled all there extremists and/or equipment and training into Pakistan tribal areas.

I think it is wrong when only ISI is blamed for this when clearly CIA had extensive involvement in nurturing extremist groups as well for their short term anti-communist agenda. Even Aghan Taliban was supported tacitly by the Americans initially because of the Israeli lobby (due to their anti shia and hence anti Iran stance) and oil lobbies like Unocal.

But there is no point in underestimating TTP recruits. Only the suicide bombers may fall into that category. Their core group was trained by the leading intelligence agencies in the world in subversive and guerrilla warfare tactics. All these have been collated and improved and taught to further generations since the 80s. And when you have retired army officers like Dr. Usman in the GHQ attacks things clearly don't seem that just illiterate people are involved.

Ejaz,

just a correction, Dr. Usman is an alias of Aqeel who was not a retired officer but a sepoy in Army medical corps who was AWOL long time ago.

I am not saying that no person in Army cannot harbor resent against the state, however while they serve in the Army they cannot act against the state without arousing suspicion and facing dire consequences...moreover the young officers and unit level commanders are not the Zia era ones and were not involved in training the Mujahideen so they are the new guard and have little to nothing to do with Jihadis.
The Army is disciplined and what one harbors in his heart is never open to others but discipline, checks and balances ensure that Army obeys its commanders.
This is the reason that Pakistan Army has bravely fought the TTP in Swat and FATA and we have many martyred officers and men who performed feats of valor against the scums of TTP.
The ratio of young lieutenants and captains in these honorable martyrs shows that the battles have been fought in highest military tradition where officers have led from the front, certainly there is no hesitation in Army to fight the TTP.

Such men like Aqeel aka Dr. Usman are in every country who may have been patriots once but become something else due to many factors and resort to unacceptable violence...remember Timothy McVeigh?

Afghan Jihad was supported by many nations as a struggle for freedom to pursue their national interests and now when we are suffering the consequences of the indoctrination and inadequate planning in post jihad era.
It is very convenient for majority to blame ISI and Pakistan however
USA and its CIA and many other countries collaborated and were responsible for the indoctrination of Afghan Mujahideen.
By virtue of denying and downplaying their own role in the current turmoil, it is impossible for the western countries to come up with a sound strategy to stabilize Afghanistan.
If they realize what led to this they would have opted for a less military option even though they were full of revenge in post 9/11 scenario.
With the right economic guarantees and conditions they would have had a much better chance of nabbing Osama.
Anyways, let us hope that we break the back of Al Qaeda and TTP soon.

Long way to go but no other option here regarding Al Qaeda and TTP.

 

[EjazR]

All-Green, thanks for correcting me about Aqeel.

My main point was by saying that TTP is just bunch of illiterates being controlled by the "US-Israeli-India nexus", we actually end up in a weird sort of way legitimizing claims of Taliban and other "affliated" groups like AQ claiming that the real TTP and AQ are not involved in civilian attacks and that they are being done by CIA/RAW/Mossad and the "puppet Pakistani regime" to discredit them. These people consists of dedicated "cult" groups who are well trained in bomb/mine making and guerrilla warfare courtesy the 80s. After all the training was one disseminated by one of the worlds best.

This is not just a battle of weapons and arms, but an ideological battle as well where hollow claims of TTP and their sympathizers of establishing an "Islamic state" should be resisted. And if that means cornering parties like JI JUI and other MMA variants e.t.c., so be it.

The TTP Punjab chief being captured is an excellent step, but now a clear transparent trial should be bring forward the truth of his affiliations so that public support for the Taliban ideology is completely curtailed and this will require some difficult decisions to be made as well including but not limited to the security establishment as well

 

[pakdefender]

All-Green, thanks for correcting me about Aqeel.

My main point was by saying that TTP is just bunch of illiterates being controlled by the "US-Israeli-India nexus", we actually end up in a weird sort of way legitimizing claims of Taliban and other "affliated" groups like AQ claim that the real TTP and AQ are no involved in civilian attacks and that they are being done by CIA/RAW/Mossad and the "puppet Pakistani regime" to discredit them. These people consists of dedicated cult group who are well trained in bomb/mine making and guerilla warfare courtesy the 80s. After all the training was one disseminated by one of the worlds best.

This is not just a battle of weapons and arms, but an ideological battle as well where hollow claims of TTP and their sympathizers of establishing an "Islamic state" should be resisted. And if that means cornering parties like JI JUI and other MMA variants e.t.c., so be it.

The TTP Punjab chief being captured is an excellent step, but now a clear transparent trial should be bring forward the truth of his affiliations so that public support for the Taliban ideology is completely curtailed and this will require some difficult decisions to be made as well including but not limited to the security establishment as well

Dont try to act too clever , US/India/Israel all feel threatened by Pakistan's nuclear capability and thats what all this fasad and drama really about.

 

[Cheetah786]

Does that mean Saudi Arabia, Alegria, UAE, Kuwait are now involved in destabilizing Pakistan as well. It is also known the their sympathizers in the gulf also provide a lot of financial support. Their manuals in the Arabic language have been found.

To Answer your question Ejaz YES and they have been for a while.