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Possible Solution to the Kashmir Issue

This is the reason why your country is not a total ..... Be grateful to us Muslims!

Every human is descended from Adam and Hawwa, and they were the first Muslims, Adam AS was the first prophet. Everything else is a perversion of that original purity.

Muslim mindset is totally different from the Hindu one.

Stop worshipping inanimate things then?

Seems this one is very bitter about his own faith and feels inferior to us.
 
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By accepting Islam and becoming Muslims, Kashmiris believe that like the rest of us, they have recovered their true religion and nature (fitrah.)

Kashmiris are the inheritors, owners, and people of this land. They are not foreigners.

Settlers from Gujurat and other South subcontinental states are the foreigners.
 
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Dont worry about our disingenuousity or dishonesty. We worship false gods anyway (like your ancestors did).

What you do or do not worship is not my concern nor a part in my argument. You are free to worship whatever you want, as is your God given and universally accepted right. A concept which you are apparently not aware of.

Your dishonesty and disingenuity, on the other hand, are my concern, seeing as how they result in the blatant murder, rape and oppression of my people under your occupation.

To the point: By "universally/internationally acknowledged rights" u mean "plebiscite for self-determination"? Sorry, but it has many twists & turns. Right on this forum, u will refer such & such treaty / resolution / agreement and Indians will refer some other treaty / resolution / agreement. That argument never ends. We all think our right is right and others' right is left. As an Indian, of-course I will side with India. But I am just trying to make you see both perspectives.

No. I mean the internationally recognized and universally accepted right of an occupied people to bare arms against the occupier (any state or entity which is not the sovereign of that land) if required. The Indian status as an occupier in Kashmir is also not up for debate given the official Indian acceptance of Kashmir being a disputed land and requiring resolution between multiple parties other than itself, including Kashmiris. How the dispute needs to be resolved has no baring on the Kashmiris' right to bare arms against the atrocities being committed by the Indian occupying forces.

I didn't give the Naxalites as an example for a reason.

(The thing which both sides will not argue on is: India already gave parts of it to a religion which was foreign to Indian sub-continent. How much more should India give? Perhaps you think much more. Indians think, not an inch more. Once again we have our own perspectives. But, we both should agree that, India should not be the one to give all the time, right? It has to stop sometime. For Indians, that time is now. For you, may be its tomorrow. But you do agree that sometime is the right time for that time, right?)

India did not give anything to anyone. India itself, as a unified political entity, is a modern construct made by another occupying force. In fact, the princely state of Kashmir itself was also a modern construct made by the very same occupying force and stands against your claims of India's historic ownership of the Kashmiri land. India cannot give that which it never possessed and still does not possess. The right of the land of Kashmir belongs to the people of Kashmir, as categorically admitted and accepted by the State of India. Your perspective and/or sentiments hold nothing over that right.
 
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What you do or do not worship is not my concern nor a part in my argument. You are free to worship whatever you want, as is your God given and universally accepted right. A concept which you are apparently not aware of.

Your dishonesty and disingenuity, on the other hand, are my concern, seeing as how they result in the blatant murder, rape and oppression of my people under your occupation.
No need to get personal or emotional. You can make me emotional only if I am convinced that I am occupying something that is not mine. I am convinced that I am not.

In fact, I am convinced that "if certain foreign ideology/mentality/morality/religion/whatever entered certain geography and started to take over parts of that geography such that the original ideology/mentality/morality/religion/whatever is erased completely in those parts", it is a much more clear case of occupation. You should be too and so should be any individual with logical, cognitive abilities.

No. I mean the internationally recognized and universally accepted right of an occupied people to bare arms against the occupier (any state or entity which is not the sovereign of that land) if required. The Indian status as an occupier in Kashmir is also not up for debate given the official Indian acceptance of Kashmir being a disputed land and requiring resolution between multiple parties other than itself, including Kashmiris. How the dispute needs to be resolved has no baring on the Kashmiris' right to bare arms against the atrocities being committed by the Indian occupying forces.

I didn't give the Naxalites as an example for a reason.
Like I said above, occupied people and occupied region is your perspective. Don't expect that perspective to be mine or India's. In fact, read the para above and try to see if you can think form a perspective different than yours. I am not saying, you must. I am saying, can you try?

On a different note, if certain people are taking up arms for any & all reasons everywhere, no one takes them seriously. Gandhi strictly followed non-violence all his life. Then, at one point of time, he gave the slogan "Do or Die" ("Karo ya Maro"). It was a call for violence. It caught everyone's attention because he was a non-violent person all his life. If he was violent from beginning to end, no one would have paid attention to his "Do or Die" slogan. It would have been run-of-the-mill slogan. Just something for you to ponder over.

India did not give anything to anyone. India itself, as a unified political entity, is a modern construct made by another occupying force. In fact, the princely state of Kashmir itself was also a modern construct made by the very same occupying force and stands against your claims of India's historic ownership of the Kashmiri land. India cannot give that which it never possessed and still does not possess. The right of the land of Kashmir belongs to the people of Kashmir, as categorically admitted and accepted by the State of India. Your perspective and/or sentiments hold nothing over that right.
Your hate for the name "India" is ok. Refer my para above. Call it by any name. Call it a "geographic land" if you will (I hope you dont hate 'geography').

A geographic landmass (GL) had an identity X.

A foreigner with identity Y entered GL, carved out parts of GL and erased X from those carved out parts.

How long should the GL allow the above to repeat?

It has to be enough sometime. Is it Today? or Tomorrow? or Day After? When? You would agree it has to be sometime. Only disagreement between you and me should be "WHEN". Not on "WHETHER". Correct?
 
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No need to get personal or emotional. You can make me emotional only if I am convinced that I am occupying something that is not mine. I am convinced that I am not.

"Personal or emotional"? Is straw man your go to? Or is it that you are overly sensitive to everything?

In fact, I am convinced that "if certain foreign ideology/mentality/morality/religion/whatever entered certain geography and started to take over parts of that geography such that the original ideology/mentality/morality/religion/whatever is erased completely in those parts", it is a much more clear case of occupation. You should be too and so should be any individual with logical, cognitive abilities.

That is a stance only held by the losing "ideology/mentality/morality/religion/whatever". It is a natural human defense mechanism born from insecurities of losing power/influence and the fear of the new. It is an archaic stance, which already has and still continues to cause atrocities against millions. Stands opposed to logic and those with "cognitive abilities".

I could further stiffen my argument by stating the fact that neither Hinduism nor any of the other major religions in the subcontinent "originated" in Kashmir and hence would all be "occupiers" as per your argument. However, I'd rather first have you answer the fact that Kashmir, throughout its history, has never been an intrinsic part of any political entity resembling what is today the State of India, primarily because the very state of India and the former Princely State of Kashmir are themselves modern constructs born from the doings of a foreign occupational force. If India's stance is based on this false historical claim born from a dishonest jumbling together of a historical geographical concept with a modern political entity, then I'm afraid the Afghans, Central Asians, the Chinese, and even the Greek have an equal claim to Kashmir. I would advise caution while pursuing this arc, we don't want these guys also laying claim to regions belonging to the State of India today.

So, no. India, Hinduism, and Indians themselves are as foreign to Kashmir as anyone else. Kashmiris consider you as such, always have, always will.

Like I said above, occupied people and occupied region is your perspective.

And of Kashmiris. You know, those whose perspective is the only one that matters? Also accepted by India when it signed international agreements testifying to and acknowledging the fact that Kashmir is a disputed land and not sovereign Indian territory. I mean, you and Modi are more than welcome to print out as many new documents stating otherwise but these "mein nahi manta" statements will remain only comical.

Don't expect that perspective to be mine or India's.

I do not, seeing as how both you and the State of India come from a dishonest and disingenuous agenda.

In fact, read the para above and try to see if you can think form a perspective different than yours. I am not saying, you must. I am saying, can you try?

As explained above, no thank you. I can't be expected to entertain nonsensical fantasies concocted only to satiate the cognitive dissonance from what is Vs what you wish it was.

On a different note, if certain people are taking up arms for any & all reasons everywhere, no one takes them seriously. Gandhi strictly followed non-violence all his life. Then, at one point of time, he gave the slogan "Do or Die" ("Karo ya Maro"). It was a call for violence. It caught everyone's attention because he was a non-violent person all his life. If he was violent from beginning to end, no one would have paid attention to his "Do or Die" slogan. It would have been run-of-the-mill slogan. Just something for you to ponder over.

There's nothing to ponder over, your's is a nonsensical argument which does not even align with Kashmir's history. Which I'm guessing you have no clue about?

Your hate for the name "India" is ok. Refer my para above. Call it by any name. Call it a "geographic land" if you will (I hope you dont hate 'geography').

A geographic landmass (GL) had an identity X.

A foreigner with identity Y entered GL, carved out parts of GL and erased X from those carved out parts.

How long should the GL allow the above to repeat?


It has to be enough sometime. Is it Today? or Tomorrow? or Day After? When? You would agree it has to be sometime. Only disagreement between you and me should be "WHEN". Not on "WHETHER". Correct?

Please go back and re-read my post, repeat until actually understood. Make this your SOP before responding to any post.

The only identity the geographic landmass had was of a geographic landmass, which it still does. Geographic landmasses do not posses any political identity or power and hence can and cannot allow nothing. It is as idiotic as America (US) claiming Mexico and Canada because they are a part of America (the continent).
 
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very simple solution

LOC as border but valley must be given to pakistan .
Imran sb, from an Indian perspective (or any country) there is no point in settling disputes by giving away land. It should be a settlement where everyone gets something.

half of the valley is already under pakistan rest is very small area to be given for peace
I guess Kashmir valley is under Indian control. It's not a small area either, it's around 15000 sq Km covering a lot of strategic peaks.
 
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Imran sb, from an Indian perspective (or any country) there is no point in settling disputes by giving away land. It should be a settlement where everyone gets something.


I guess Kashmir valley is under Indian control. It's not a small area either, it's around 15000 sq Km covering a lot of strategic peaks.
no its not look the map half of valley is in azad kashmir .
 
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no its not look the map half of valley is in azad kashmir .
You're talking about Nilum Valley sirji. Azad Kashmir is outside the Kashmir valley. You can check them out on the map. The encircled region is the Kashmir valley, surrounded by mountains and you can see LOC. Outside which is AJK.
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You're talking about Nilum Valley sirji. Azad Kashmir is outside the Kashmir valley. You can check them out on the map. The encircled region is the Kashmir valley, surrounded by mountains and you can see LOC. Outside which is AJK.
View attachment 662247

just because you lost kotli -poonch -havily - bagh -sudhanoti districts they are not part of valley ? they are historically parts of valley but now in azad kashmir . give them thier brothers of indian occupied valley it may bring peace . otherwise valley and jammu will keep burning forever .
 
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just because you lost kotli -poonch -havily - bagh -sudhanoti districts they are not part of valley ? they are historically parts of valley but now in azad kashmir . give them thier brothers of indian occupied valley it may bring peace . otherwise valley and jammu will keep burning forever .
Imran sb, I am not singing victory praise of anyone. Just showing you the geography of the valley. Kotli-sudhanoti districts comes outside the Pir panjal range. Once you cross the Pir panjal pass the difference becomes more clear, they speak different language/dialects, areas like Poonch, Havely where there are hardly any Kashmiris or people who speak the Kashmiri dialect. The valley people are a different stock altogether and most want to be left alone from the India Pakistan politics.

As for Jammu, well, I have been to Jammu and Leh - Kargil, where life goes on like any other place. This mistake is what costs PA the 1999 attempt when they tried to enter through Kargil, hoping people in Kargil will be welcoming them. The Brotherhood you think does not exist in various districts of J&K, Ladakh - Kargil. The internal divisions between different people in the region, who speak different languages, see themselves belonging to different groups, are complicated that what you imagine.
 
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That is a stance only held by the losing "ideology/mentality/morality/religion/whatever". It is a natural human defense mechanism born from insecurities of losing power/influence and the fear of the new. It is an archaic stance, which already has and still continues to cause atrocities against millions. Stands opposed to logic and those with "cognitive abilities".

We will see who will win and who will lose. Even a loser will fight before losing. And maybe even die rather than surrendering. But few have the special quality of surrendering first, then feeling proud in being part of the conqueror and trying to feel like "winner". Nevermind.

I could further stiffen my argument by stating the fact that neither Hinduism nor any of the other major religions in the subcontinent "originated" in Kashmir and hence would all be "occupiers" as per your argument. However, I'd rather first have you answer the fact that Kashmir, throughout its history, has never been an intrinsic part of any political entity resembling what is today the State of India, primarily because the very state of India and the former Princely State of Kashmir are themselves modern constructs born from the doings of a foreign occupational force. If India's stance is based on this false historical claim born from a dishonest jumbling together of a historical geographical concept with a modern political entity, then I'm afraid the Afghans, Central Asians, the Chinese, and even the Greek have an equal claim to Kashmir. I would advise caution while pursuing this arc, we don't want these guys also laying claim to regions belonging to the State of India today.

So, no. India, Hinduism, and Indians themselves are as foreign to Kashmir as anyone else. Kashmiris consider you as such, always have, always will.

And of Kashmiris. You know, those whose perspective is the only one that matters? Also accepted by India when it signed international agreements testifying to and acknowledging the fact that Kashmir is a disputed land and not sovereign Indian territory. I mean, you and Modi are more than welcome to print out as many new documents stating otherwise but these "mein nahi manta" statements will remain only comical.
My point was not limited to Kashmir. It was much bigger. It was about a GL, any GL (Kashmir may be your raw nerve which u dream about day & night. It will go nowhere from where it is today. Give your dreams a rest)

There's nothing to ponder over, your's is a nonsensical argument which does not even align with Kashmir's history. Which I'm guessing you have no clue about?
My point was not limited to Kashmir. It was much bigger. It was about a GL, any GL (Kashmir may be your raw nerve which u dream about day & night. It will go nowhere from where it is today. Give your dreams a rest)

The only identity the geographic landmass had was of a geographic landmass, which it still does. Geographic landmasses do not posses any political identity or power and hence can and cannot allow nothing. It is as idiotic as America (US) claiming Mexico and Canada because they are a part of America (the continent).

So the geogrophical landmass which is called pakistan today, has no identity called 'islam'?
(You can say either Yes or No or dodge like you did on the question 'Are human beings killer in general?")
 
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