[POLL] Should Russia give Crimea back to Ukraine to normalize relation with Ukraine?

[jhungary]

Of course many Mexican and Americans have Spanish roots but does this mean California and Mexico and Texas ought to be governed by Madrid???
So Crimea belonged to Eastern Roman Empire, then Rus Empire, then this Turkic empire and then Ottoman, then Imperial Russia, then USSR and then Ukraine and now Russian Federation.
But what really matters is the people living on Crimea. If most of the population were Turkic Tatars, then they would never have voted to join Russia in my opinion. But most of them are Russians....and that is a fact. We can debate various empires ruling over this land but you know that the majority of Crimeans are Russians...

Mate, I said historically belong to, does not mean they should be govern by those state in the modern state.

Many country in the last world have expulse or exterminate local populace after they invaded the country, that does not mean these people were originally from there.

However, whoever should govern these country are a different issue. So by your standard, if Russian are majority in Crimea, then Russia should have governing right to Crimea, then I guess Switzerland and Austria should be handed back to Germany as most of their descendant are Germanic. Or Chechnya should be hand back to Chechen because 95% of Chechnya are Chechen Muslim.

Not saying this should be the case, but Sovereignty is never as simple as "Whoever have the majority of population should have governing control of the area)

The city of Kerch fell under Russian control in 10 ct. and became Korchev. It was tenure of Tmutarakan prince. It was the main sea port of the whole Rus.

Yeah, but Kerch was formed by Greek, Ionian to be precise, that is where the dispute is from. Russian conquered the land from Greek, however, they allowed the Greek to continue settle in the region.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Mate, I said historically belong to, does not mean they should be govern by those state in the modern state.

Many country in the last world have expulse or exterminate local populace after they invaded the country, that does not mean these people were originally from there.

However, whoever should govern these country are a different issue. So by your standard, if Russian are majority in Crimea, then Russia should have governing right to Crimea, then I guess Switzerland and Austria should be handed back to Germany as most of their descendant are Germanic. Or Chechnya should be hand back to Chechen because 95% of Chechnya are Chechen Muslim.

Not saying this should be the case, but Sovereignty is never as simple as "Whoever have the majority of population should have governing control of the area)



Yeah, but Kerch was formed by Greek, Ionian to be precise, that is where the dispute is from. Russian conquered the land from Greek, however, they allowed the Greek to continue settle in the region.

By your logic Tibet should not be part of China. If you go to China and say this you will get arrested.

 

[jhungary]

By your logic Tibet should not be part of China. If you go to China and say this you will get arrested.

umm, I am not the person who say a country sovereignty is based on the majority of the national it reside, @TMA raise that point by saying "Russian are majority in Crimea so Russian should have governing right", in fact, that's what you said too, so in a way, you are the one who say Since Tibetan is the majority of Tibet, they are the one, not the Chinese, should govern Tibet.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

umm, I am not the person who say a country sovereignty is based on the majority of the national it reside, @TMA raise that point by saying "Russian are majority in Crimea so Russian should have governing right", in fact, that's what you said too, so in a way, you are the one who say Since Tibetan is the majority of Tibet, they are the one, not the Chinese, should govern Tibet.

Yeah, but ethnic Russians are in control in Crimea. There hasn't been a single riot by Tatars in Crimea. If they want, they can go to Ukraine if they think Ukrainians treat them better.

 

[jhungary]

Yeah, but ethnic Russians are in control in Crimea. There hasn't been a single riot by Tatars in Crimea. If they want, they can go to Ukraine if they think Ukrainians treat them better.

So you are saying Tibetan should govern Tibet, not the Chinese?

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

So you are saying Tibetan should govern Tibet, not the Chinese?

Han has power in China. Anyone want trouble? J-20 bomb them.

 

[TMA]

Mate, I said historically belong to, does not mean they should be govern by those state in the modern state.

Many country in the last world have expulse or exterminate local populace after they invaded the country, that does not mean these people were originally from there.

However, whoever should govern these country are a different issue. So by your standard, if Russian are majority in Crimea, then Russia should have governing right to Crimea, then I guess Switzerland and Austria should be handed back to Germany as most of their descendant are Germanic. Or Chechnya should be hand back to Chechen because 95% of Chechnya are Chechen Muslim.

Not saying this should be the case, but Sovereignty is never as simple as "Whoever have the majority of population should have governing control of the area)



Yeah, but Kerch was formed by Greek, Ionian to be precise, that is where the dispute is from. Russian conquered the land from Greek, however, they allowed the Greek to continue settle in the region.

You are right it is not that simple so a bit of revision: In Kiev there was an illegal coup. Some say covertly supported by NATO. But you don't have to accept this. But you do accept that there was an illegal coup? Now in response to this, the people of Crimea who did not like this illegal coup voted to join Russia. Russia of course wanted this anyways and gladly accepted.

An accurate standard would be this:
If there was an illegal coup in Switzerland and the German Swiss did not like this and then they decided amongst themselves to join Germany and if Germany accepted...then yes that part of Switzerland could be governed by Berlin.

 

[jhungary]

You are right it is not that simple so a bit of revision: In Kiev there was an illegal coup. Some say covertly supported by NATO. But you don't have to accept this. But you do accept that there was an illegal coup? Now in response to this, the people of Crimea who did not like this illegal coup voted to join Russia. Russia of course wanted this anyways and gladly accepted.

An accurate standard would be this:
If there was an illegal coup in Switzerland and the German Swiss did not like this and then they decided amongst themselves to join Germany and if Germany accepted...then yes that part of Switzerland could be governed by Berlin.

I don't believe in anything, because I am not a Ukrainian, your question can only answer by a Ukrainian, because none of us, you and me, know any better about Ukrainian own politics.

As I said, I don't take side on Crimea or Ukrainian, that is not my business, all I know is, sovereignty is not as easy as whoever have the majority of population should be in charge and also, the world beside a few country does not recognize this take over. And I believe if Russia did that, they lost the right to blame Ukrainian turning away from Russia.

That is the only thing I believe.

Han has power in China. Anyone want trouble? J-20 bomb them.

So, I expect to see J-20 above your home then? Because you said Tibetan should be in charge of Tibet, not China.

 

[vostok]

Yeah, but Kerch was formed by Greek, Ionian to be precise, that is where the dispute is from. Russian conquered the land from Greek, however, they allowed the Greek to continue settle in the region.

Tmutarakan had very mixed population - Slavs had less than 50%. But still they were the biggest ethnicity group among all.

 

[TMA]

I don't believe in anything, because I am not a Ukrainian, your question can only answer by a Ukrainian, because none of us, you and me, know any better about Ukrainian own politics.

As I said, I don't take side on Crimea or Ukrainian, that is not my business, all I know is, sovereignty is not as easy as whoever have the majority of population should be in charge and also, the world beside a few country does not recognize this take over. And I believe if Russia did that, they lost the right to blame Ukrainian turning away from Russia.

That is the only thing I believe.



So, I expect to see J-20 above your home then? Because you said Tibetan should be in charge of Tibet, not China.

Many countries don't recognise the vote by majority of the Crimeans to join Russian Federation in response to the illegal coup in Kiev. But they are wilfully blind to the illegal coup in Kiev and they are wilfully blind that the Parliament of Crimea voted on this decision.
But it does not matter if the "International Community" recognises this or not...the Crimeans are the best people to decide their politics even more than the rest of Ukraine.....

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

I think so. Russia mainland spans 7500+ km coast to coast from Black sea to Bering strait, biggest mainland in the world. Russia don't need Crimea. Rather than hate, it should be love. If I were Putin I deport all 2.5 million Russian citizens from Crimea to Russian mainland by force and give Crimea back to Ukraine. What would you do about Crimea if you are Putin?

like.... how old r u?

serious question.

 

[zectech]

Make Crimea independent. It would be pro-Russia, a friend of Ukraine, a partner with East and West. Putin could keep the military bases there to insure independence. Win-win situation.

The Tatar minority would not be persecuted.

Nearly 1/3 of the population of Crimea is Tatar, and these are not Central Asians, but mainly Muslim converts from Greek Christianity (Byzantine Empire). If the Byzantines were the first according to some to have a claim on Crimea, then why persecute the Greek Converts to Islam, known as Tatars. The Crimean Tatars haves very little Central Asian ancestry (like the Anatolian Turks who are like the Tatars - mainly converts to Islam from the Greeks and Romans), unlike the Slavs who came from deeper in the Steppe.

 

[jhungary]

Many countries don't recognise the vote by majority of the Crimeans to join Russian Federation in response to the illegal coup in Kiev. But they are wilfully blind to the illegal coup in Kiev and they are wilfully blind that the Parliament of Crimea voted on this decision.
But it does not matter if the "International Community" recognises this or not...the Crimeans are the best people to decide their politics even more than the rest of Ukraine.....

As I said, I don't take side on the issue, Russian may have their reason to take it back, or Ukrainian may have their reason to want it back, this is not up to me to decide, I don't live there.

What I say is, I would think if Russia do that, Russia lost the right to cry foul when Ukrainian leaning more toward NATO, they do took Crimea from Ukraine, and if you want it, you should not give it to Ukrainian 20 years ago. Once you gave them, it's their, and you take them away now, Ukrainian is going to be hostile toward the Russian. Or what do you expect? You come take our land and we can all sit around the camp fire and sing kumbaya?

Tmutarakan had very mixed population - Slavs had less than 50%. But still they were the biggest ethnicity group among all.

Again, that's my point, that's why it is disputed.

 

[vostok]

Make Crimea independent. It would be pro-Russia, a friend of Ukraine, a partner with East and West. Putin could keep the military bases there to insure independence. Win-win situation.

The Tatar minority would not be persecuted.

Nearly 1/3 of the population of Crimea is Tatar, and these are not Central Asians, but mainly Muslim converts from Greek Christianity (Byzantine Empire). If the Byzantines were the first according to some to have a claim on Crimea, then why persecute the Greek Converts to Islam, known as Tatars. The Crimean Tatars haves very little Central Asian ancestry (like the Anatolian Turks who are like the Tatars - mainly converts to Islam from the Greeks and Romans), unlike the Slavs who came from deeper in the Steppe.

1/3? Actually - 12.6%.
Slavs lived in forests and steppes of Eastern Europe since the emergence of Indo-Europeans. Slavic peoples are the most ancient Indo-European population of Europe.

 

[Nein]

Ukrainians lost it they should deal with it.

Pathetic how they gave up crimea without firing a bullet.