PM’s adviser asks Senate body to ‘shut down’ PIA

[Saif-ud-Din Qutuz]

PM Gandu's adviser asks senate to shut down whole Pakistan. Maou nu lun Nawazaya tari v tay tera gandu sathiyan di v. Fudi sari nay kuttay.

 

[The Diplomat]

Why hasn't anyone asked the question: Why is a government operating an airline to begin with?

A government should collect taxes, make policies, including foreign policy, and provide justice and security. That's the basic function of a government. I'm sure GoP is doing so well in all those areas that they thought why not operate an airline, steel mill and... a restaurant.

Captain Saab don't really agree; lots of countries have national government run airlines but the problem is airline union in Pakistan, PIA and politics don't go well... We used to be the best in the 60's/70's. PML N, PTI, PPP, etc all have a union of their own in PIA, the question should be WHY?

 

[Khanate]

Captain Saab don't really agree; lots of countries have national government run airlines but the problem is airline union in Pakistan, PIA and politics don't go well... We used to be the best in the 60's/70's. PML N, PTI, PPP, etc all have a union of their own in PIA, the question should be WHY?

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it again: PIA has become a unionised sinkhole. No matter what resources you put in, they will be devoured by the unions. You need to create a 'sink or swim' environment so you can incentivise efficiency. Unions incentivise bureaucracy which is the opposite of efficiency. The fact that unions are playing politics should not come as surprise to you considering you live in UK. It was due to union shenanigans that Thatcherism was brought in and that is exactly what Pakistan needs.

because it is the need of the day ... PIA was among the best air line the world ,,, it was being run by got at that time as well ... There are few dept. which are necessary for defense ... Anyways its something confidential that i can't share but selling or closing PIA is not the solution ...

Try to live in 2017, not 1965.

I don't see anyone asking this to British Gov about British Airways ???

PIA and Pakistan need to get rid of power show, people on position to make decisions, do such things to show their power...
Its not just Bloody PIA , its everywhere.. Even the guy who sell on cart, will do whats in his power ...

The guy who earns his living through the cart will make decisions to avoid failure so he can eke out a living. A nationalised, unionised carrier is given no incentive to avoid failure. Worst case, they are rescued by the government when the worst case should be bankruptcy.

 

[The Diplomat]

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it again: PIA has become a unionised sinkhole. No matter what resources you put in, they will be devoured by the unions. You need to create a 'sink or swim' environment so you can incentivise efficiency. Unions incentivise bureaucracy which is the opposite of efficiency. The fact that unions are playing politics should not come as surprise to you considering you live in UK. It was due to union shenanigans that Thatcherism was brought in and that is exactly what Pakistan needs.

No I agree but there is a UK example as a solution as well. Margaret Thatcher; she totally got rid of unions when she was in office, if the government is serious than they need to follow an approach similar to M Thatcher about dealing with unions.

 

[Khanate]

No I agree but there is a UK example as a solution as well. Margaret Thatcher; she totally got rid of unions when she was in office, if the government is serious than they need to follow an approach similar to M Thatcher about dealing with unions.

Reforms are brought in when you are feeling the pain of inefficiency like UK was in 1979 or China in 1972. At the moment, Pakistan is tied up with CPEC so these union sinkholes get another lease on life via restructuring (Source) but its only a matter of timing.

 

[BRITISH]

before shut . their should be accountability of PIA
where is all pak money

 

[The Accountant]

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it again: PIA has become a unionised sinkhole. No matter what resources you put in, they will be devoured by the unions. You need to create a 'sink or swim' environment so you can incentivise efficiency. Unions incentivise bureaucracy which is the opposite of efficiency. The fact that unions are playing politics should not come as surprise to you considering you live in UK. It was due to union shenanigans that Thatcherism was brought in and that is exactly what Pakistan needs.





Try to live in 2017, not 1965.





The guy who earns his living through the cart will make decisions to avoid failure so he can eke out a living. A nationalised, unionised carrier is given no incentive to avoid failure. Worst case, they are rescued by the government when the worst case should be bankruptcy.

This happen when people having no knowledge of the actual story consider themselves as experts based on information from print media ...

There is no doubt that PIA needs to be make political ... however privatisation will result in loss of cruicial capabilities of PAF ...

Let me just explain you with an example ... in Pakistan's nuclear and missile program procurement of commercial but restricted technologies was done through quaid.e.azam university ... let me confirm you quaid.e.azam iniverrsity is not the only tool for such procurement and research ...

If you have cancer in your some body part you dont cutt off the part you cure it ... issue is not with with aviation business ... dont you have air india ? Alot of airlines are state operated yet profitable ... issue is with governance which needs to be addressed ... such organization should be run on PPP mode ... using commercial terms ... merit is the key ... however the real cancer is political system so cure should be identified for political system rest will auto correct ...

 

[Khanate]

This happen when people having no knowledge of the actual story consider themselves as experts based on information from print media ...

There is no doubt that PIA needs to be make political ... however privatisation will result in loss of cruicial capabilities of PAF ...

Let me just explain you with an example ... in Pakistan's nuclear and missile program procurement of commercial but restricted technologies was done through quaid.e.azam university ... let me confirm you quaid.e.azam iniverrsity is not the only tool for such procurement and research ...

If you have cancer in your some body part you dont cutt off the part you cure it ... issue is not with with aviation business ... dont you have air india ? Alot of airlines are state operated yet profitable ... issue is with governance which needs to be addressed ... such organization should be run on PPP mode ... using commercial terms ... merit is the key ... however the real cancer is political system so cure should be identified for political system rest will auto correct ...

Pakistan is already a nuclear-armed state, if you haven't notice. As for Cancer, mastectomy is one way of dealing with breast cancer. And the whole point of privatisation is to eliminate political influence and you simply cannot accomplish that in a unionised environment. Ergo, your argument and the examples are invalid.

Try again.

 

[ziaulislam]

Why hasn't anyone asked the question: Why is a government operating an airline to begin with?

A government should collect taxes, make policies, including foreign policy, and provide justice and security. That's the basic function of a government. I'm sure GoP is doing so well in all those areas that they thought why not operate an airline, steel mill and... a restaurant.

99% of educated people believe that govt should not do privatization and hence govt cannot do privitization, its an unpopular decision. when ever there is privatization the news headline is" onay ponay baych deya"

 

[The Accountant]

Pakistan is already a nuclear-armed state, if you haven't notice. As for Cancer, mastectomy is one way of dealing with breast cancer. And the whole point of privatisation is to eliminate political influence and you simply cannot accomplish that in a unionised environment. Ergo, your argument and the examples are invalid.

Try again.

Ok how many commercial organizations have you lead ? How much privatisation deals you have conducted ? Do

Pakistan is already a nuclear-armed state, if you haven't notice. As for Cancer, mastectomy is one way of dealing with breast cancer. And the whole point of privatisation is to eliminate political influence and you simply cannot accomplish that in a unionised environment. Ergo, your argument and the examples are invalid.

Try again.

And can you tell me in how many transaction you have taken part ? Or in how many organization you have prepared privatisation plan ... or in how many organizations you were part of senior managment team taking investment decisions ?

You are talking to someone who was part of the advisory team responsible for privatisation transaction of PIA ...

You dont know a shit about these things and yet pass remarks like some think tank ...

 

[Khanate]

Ok how many commercial organizations have you lead ? How much privatisation deals you have conducted ? Do

And can you tell me in how many transaction you have taken part ? Or in how many organization you have prepared privatisation plan ... or in how many organizations you were part of senior managment team taking investment decisions ?

You are talking to someone who was part of the advisory team responsible for privatisation transaction of PIA ...

You dont know a shit about these things and yet pass remarks like some think tank ...

Try not to take a discussion personally because it is neither about me, nor you. And if you are as qualified, as you claim you are, then you should have no problem debating your point of view. For reference, you're at the bottom of how to refute an argument, i.e., ad hominem and name-calling.

995 of educated people believe that govt should not do privatization and hence govt cannot do privitization, its an unpopular decision. when ever there is privatization the news headline is" onay ponay baych deya"

That's the real tragedy.

 

[The Accountant]

Try not to take a discussion personally because it is neither about me, nor you. And if you are as qualified, as you claim you are, then you should have no problem debating your point of view. For reference, you're at the bottom of how to refute an argument, i.e., ad hominem and name-calling.

That's the real tragedy.

I never try name calling ... i was just trying to tell you that privatisation is not a splution for few of the organizations like pakistan railways, PIA and POF ...

I never started arguments as i am not in liberty to share any information ... i can just tell you that based on my expertise and area of knowledege this is share stupidity to privatised these type of assets ... they are handy at the time of need ...

 

[Khanate]

I never try name calling ... i was just trying to tell you that privatisation is not a splution for few of the organizations like pakistan railways, PIA and POF ...

I never started arguments as i am not in liberty to share any information ... i can just tell you that based on my expertise and area of knowledege this is share stupidity to privatised these type of assets ... they are handy at the time of need ...

Again, make your argument in the public, instead of rambling, and try to defend it. So far you haven't done that. No one cares about your sources or your expertise. All these state institutions are relics of the past and should be privatised. GoP can subsidise some modernisation programs but we can no longer keep these unionised sinkholes on our books.

 

[ziaulislam]

Again, make you argument in the public, instead of rambling, and try to defend it. So far you haven't done that. No one cares about your sources or your expertise. All these state institutions are relics of the past and should be privatised. GoP can subsidise some modernisation programs but we can no longer keep these unionised sinkholes on our books.

ther you go, just look at @The Accountant post. as i said privitization is not popular

knowledge drives economy, those who know this are world super powers(e.g korea, japan with zero natural resources), those who dont are like us who depsite having quit abit gas, and other resources are nothing.

why? we spent over 20 billion dollars in last 15 years in PIA(official debt over 4 billion dollars), steel mills, DESCO, banks and other orgniazations
this was enough to build 100 state of the art enginering univeristy and school in every area, a medical college and state of the art teritery hospital in every district

what we have gained from this is absolutely nothing, we would have been better off without PIA(now we have official title of smugglers), steels mills( thousand of people who are on contract for not having a job??) and DESO(more efficiency less oil imports), railways(now we are heading to desel engines from electric engines??, no auto ticketing in 21th century when even my pizza is ordered online)

tragedy of a nation, i wonder had it not been Muslim blood and jinnah sweat in its creation we wouldn't have lasted

people pitch is that bring honest people(angels), there are no honest people(angels) in this world
hence USSR fell despite having world largest oil, gas,gold,diamonds

 

[The Accountant]

Again, make your argument in the public, instead of rambling, and try to defend it. So far you haven't done that. No one cares about your sources or your expertise. All these state institutions are relics of the past and should be privatised. GoP can subsidise some modernisation programs but we can no longer keep these unionised sinkholes on our books.

And why is that ... when india china and alot of other countries can run airline in gov sector then why cant Pakistan ??? Just because people like you keep on using popular arguments ...
What arguments do you have in your defense ... as per your say all gov institutions should be privatised then why now provatised POF as well ??? Why not Privatised Kamra ?

Ok

ther you go, just look at @The Accountant post. as i said privitization is not popular

knowledge drives economy, those who know this are world super powers(e.g korea, japan with zero natural resources), those who dont are like us who depsite having quit abit gas, and other resources are nothing.

why? we spent over 20 billion dollars in last 15 years in PIA(official debt over 4 billion dollars), steel mills, DESCO, banks and other orgniazations
this was enough to build 100 state of the art enginering univeristy and school in every area, a medical college and state of the art teritery hospital in every district

what we have gained from this is absolutely nothing, we would have been better off without PIA(now we have official title of smugglers), steels mills( thousand of people who are on contract for not having a job??) and DESO(more efficiency less oil imports), railways(now we are heading to desel engines from electric engines??, no auto ticketing in 21th century when even my pizza is ordered online)

tragedy of a nation, i wonder had it not been Muslim blood and jinnah sweat in its creation we wouldn't have lasted

people pitch is that bring honest people(angels), there are no honest people(angels) in this world
hence USSR fell despite having world largest oil, gas,gold,diamonds

Ok and China became world second largest economy ... nationalization and privatisation whatever you do issue is of governance ... issue is murder of merit and not the economic model ... each economic model has its oros and cons but ultimately ita about how you run a particular system ... indian railway established one of the best metro system of the world in dehli governed by gov of india ... so if privatisation is the issue then why open economy of eurpoean countries like greece italy and spain are in trouble whereas gov operated instittues of india and china are flourishing ... its about governance at the top and not the model ...