PLAN patrols USA waters intimdating Washington

[jhungary]

You must be an idiot not paying attention.

I am saying U.S. ships including those intelligence gathering ships are not thousands miles away from U.S. for nothing, or just for gathering information in passive mode.

Which means, U.S. ships are not thousands miles away from China. From all of the news for the past decades, you are telling me that U.S. ships are simply gathering intelligence from China in passive mode???

You are just simply a retard.

dude, before calling other retard, do you even know what is the term passive intelligence gathering mean??

lol, THE SOLE PURPOSE OF OFFSHORE INTEL GATHERING SHIP is to conduct PASSIVE OPERATION.

SO, to answer your question.

I am saying U.S. ships including those intelligence gathering ships are not thousands miles away from U.S. for nothing, or just for gathering information in passive mode.

The answer is YES.

Otherwise, US is already AT WAR with CHINA ALREADY..

If you have source to back yup your claim that the US are conducting Active espionage using those ship to collect intel, I am all ear, otherwise you should shove your view up your arse. Show proof or get lost.

 

[gambit]

Do not pretend to be an expert. I got my M.S. in computer engineering and I have enough electrical engineering courses related signal processing and etc to know such information.

Then what are you doing, if not trying pretending to be an expert when you have no military experience at all? You cannot even pretend but only trying to pretend.

Tell me that U.S. ships including all those kinds of intelligence gathering planes, ships,subs and etc, staying close to China' coast areas, simply gather information in passive mode???

Yes. Is the concept that alien to you despite your claim to have technical edukashun?

You have never tried gathering information in active mode to seek the response from China's side??? We all know gathering information in active mode is the most helpful way to detect the other side's real ability in response during combat time.

So who is this 'we'? Your shift stupor-visor and you?

Keyword search 'passive sigint'...

Collection and Processing—Features, Products, Platforms

Active and passive SIGINT solutions

www.alphaes.de/SIGINT.PDF

The passive SIGINT generally is used within one´s own territory, working either from static or mobile installations; or, in exeptional cases from aircraft or satellites.A distinction is made between Communication Intelligence (COMINT) against communication links, and Electronic Intelligence (ELINT) against radar systems.

The special advantage of any electronical reconnaissance is the "noiseless" (passive), thus undetectable, activity.

Supersonic SIGINT: Will F-35, F-22 Also Play EW Role?

Touted as the world’s next-generation stealthy jet fighters and attack aircraft, the F/A-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) may also excel in another area: electronic eavesdropping. The aircrafts’ combination of powerful phased array AESA radars, passive electromagnetic antennas and sensors embedded throughout their frames, powerful onboard computer processing, and secure high-bandwidth communications will give them capabilities once available only to dedicated electronic attack aircraft.

The initials 'SIGINT' came from 'signals intelligence' and that mean ANY method can be used to gather signals and analyze them.

SIGINT can be provocative and here is where you are confused. There are two ways to 'provoke' an 'adversarial' transmission: simple presence or active transmission. In the context of military purposes, the word 'adversarial' mean a potential war enemy so we will confine the discussion to that realm. But broadly speaking, the context can be conferred upon an ally playing a 'Red' team in an exercise.

Simple presence mean actively transmit the moment there is detection of the presence of a vessel, friendly or not. We did this regularly against Soviet radar installations back in the Cold War, a period before you were born. Search frequencies are well known but Track and Targeting frequencies are often changed to enhance combat effectiveness against countermeasures. So what we did was flew into Soviet radar range, which is usually beyond territorial limits, to sort of 'announce' presence on the Search radar, which then will alert the Track and Targeting systems next. Then we will gather the latter two signals characteristics for later analyses.

That is purely passive with presence being the provocative factor.

The second method of active transmission to provoke a response is to actively transmit, an ECM signal for example, in order to provoke an ECCM transmission from the adversary, then collect that for later analyses.

In going back to the main subject: China objects to the right of MILITARY vessels claiming freedom of navigation thru an EEZ based upon historical knowledge is US passive SIGINT capabilities.

The problem for this objection is that precisely because the signal provocative method is 'simple presence', any vessel can be a SIGINT platform. This opens the door for China to use 'national security' as justification to harass any vessel or even tightly control passage thru Chinese ocean EEZ.

I believe those army officers on your intelligence gathering ships will have already laughed at you: what an idiot.

SIGINT specialists in the PLAN would be laughing at their fellow Chinese on this forum for the nonsense that you spouts.

 

[gambit]

lol.........well, no pain, no gain....

For the Chinese members here, Basic Training would be: Please...No pain...No pain...!!!

 

[xLancex]

Intimated about what?

Chinese ships are called Chinese Junks for a reason.

 

[KingMamba]

Intimated about what?

Chinese ships are called Chinese Junks for a reason.

That we may have to clean up the mess their equipment makes when it breaks down in the middle of our eez.

 

[gambit]

dude, before calling other retard, do you even know what is the term passive intelligence gathering mean??

lol, THE SOLE PURPOSE OF OFFSHORE INTEL GATHERING SHIP is to conduct PASSIVE OPERATION.

SO, to answer your question.



The answer is YES.

Otherwise, US is already AT WAR with CHINA ALREADY..

If you have source to back yup your claim that the US are conducting Active espionage using those ship to collect intel, I am all ear, otherwise you should shove your view up your arse. Show proof or get lost.

This guy consistently confuses intent with method.

Yes, our intention is truly active in that we send vessels 'over there'.

But no, our method is passive in that the vessels just flew/sailed by the same way any vessel would.

Am not sure how much further we could dumb this down...

 

[Oldman1]

Anyways, since China is allowed to patrol that far. Than China should not complain about American ships patrolling in South China Sea. Fairs fair.

 

[ephone]

I did enough signal processing, electromagnetic fields/waves classes to know the basic concepts how such technology can be applied. Though no military experience, it does not mean my knowledge derived from my M.S. degree in U.S. in computer engineering are not comparable to some operators in your ships.

To tell us that your intelligence devices, ships, subs, planes and etc that operate along China coastal area are all in passive mode in collecting intelligence information, just like to tell the IRAQ people U.S. comes to IRAQ purely to save them from Sadam, and U.S. has no interest in Iraq's Oil at all.

Then what are you doing, if not trying pretending to be an expert when you have no military experience at all? You cannot even pretend but only trying to pretend.


Yes. Is the concept that alien to you despite your claim to have technical edukashun?


So who is this 'we'? Your shift stupor-visor and you?

Keyword search 'passive sigint'...

Collection and Processing—Features, Products, Platforms


www.alphaes.de/SIGINT.PDF


Supersonic SIGINT: Will F-35, F-22 Also Play EW Role?

The initials 'SIGINT' came from 'signals intelligence' and that mean ANY method can be used to gather signals and analyze them.

SIGINT can be provocative and here is where you are confused. There are two ways to 'provoke' an 'adversarial' transmission: simple presence or active transmission. In the context of military purposes, the word 'adversarial' mean a potential war enemy so we will confine the discussion to that realm. But broadly speaking, the context can be conferred upon an ally playing a 'Red' team in an exercise.

Simple presence mean actively transmit the moment there is detection of the presence of a vessel, friendly or not. We did this regularly against Soviet radar installations back in the Cold War, a period before you were born. Search frequencies are well known but Track and Targeting frequencies are often changed to enhance combat effectiveness against countermeasures. So what we did was flew into Soviet radar range, which is usually beyond territorial limits, to sort of 'announce' presence on the Search radar, which then will alert the Track and Targeting systems next. Then we will gather the latter two signals characteristics for later analyses.

That is purely passive with presence being the provocative factor.

The second method of active transmission to provoke a response is to actively transmit, an ECM signal for example, in order to provoke an ECCM transmission from the adversary, then collect that for later analyses.

In going back to the main subject: China objects to the right of MILITARY vessels claiming freedom of navigation thru an EEZ based upon historical knowledge is US passive SIGINT capabilities.

The problem for this objection is that precisely because the signal provocative method is 'simple presence', any vessel can be a SIGINT platform. This opens the door for China to use 'national security' as justification to harass any vessel or even tightly control passage thru Chinese ocean EEZ.


SIGINT specialists in the PLAN would be laughing at their fellow Chinese on this forum for the nonsense that you spouts.

 

[ephone]

To say "THE SOLE PURPOSE OF OFFSHORE INTEL GATHERING SHIP is to conduct PASSIVE OPERATION" is just like to say "invade IRAQ is purely to save iraq people from sadam and has nothing to do with its oil."

As for my understanding of passive intelligence gathering, I have more than enough eletrical engineering courses to understand its concepts. BTW, my education is from U.S. as well.

As for your ignorance, let me tell you, U.S. intelligence gathering "birds" were flying over USSR, China for many times in the past 60 years and got shot down quite a few times, I do not see U.S. is at WAR with either countries???

So your logic of "active intelligence gathering" will bring war is simply not the case at all.

Anyway, if you choose to be ignorant and continue to believe what your senators tell you, it is up to you. Your presidents tell you that what U.S. have done in that past for other countries are purely for other countries freedom, benefits and etc... as if U.S. is such an altruistic country.

dude, before calling other retard, do you even know what is the term passive intelligence gathering mean??

lol, THE SOLE PURPOSE OF OFFSHORE INTEL GATHERING SHIP is to conduct PASSIVE OPERATION.

SO, to answer your question.



The answer is YES.

Otherwise, US is already AT WAR with CHINA ALREADY..

If you have source to back yup your claim that the US are conducting Active espionage using those ship to collect intel, I am all ear, otherwise you should shove your view up your arse. Show proof or get lost.

 

[Genesis]

That we may have to clean up the mess their equipment makes when it breaks down in the middle of our eez.

well if this is true we will cause some damage to the US after all

 

[jhungary]

To say "THE SOLE PURPOSE OF OFFSHORE INTEL GATHERING SHIP is to conduct PASSIVE OPERATION" is just like to say "invade IRAQ is purely to save iraq people from sadam and has nothing to do with its oil."

Honestly I fail to see the point between compare passive Intel gathering and War in Iraq. Can you explain further? Or it's just some of your brain fart at your finest hour??

As for my understanding of passive intelligence gathering, I have more than enough eletrical engineering courses to understand its concepts. BTW, my education is from U.S. as well.

You can say what you want that does not mean

A.) I have to believe it
B.) That is true

I can also say I have a PhD from Harvard and I have extensive knowledge on Electrical and Medicine, does that mean anything?

As for your ignorance, let me tell you, U.S. intelligence gathering "birds" were flying over USSR, China for many times in the past 60 years and got shot down quite a few times, I do not see U.S. is at WAR with either countries???

BUT WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT SURVILLENCE BIRD NOW, AREN'T WE.

I have already said, we have Spies in china to actively spy them, we fly remote control drone to "ACTIVELY" spy on China, BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THOSE SHIP AND EEZ. If you want to talk about active surveillance done by US Spies and Spy Plane, open a new thread,

Do you even familiar with the term "Mutual Observation" When we use those BIG ship to Passively spy on China, China will know and send out a monitoring party to do "Counter Surveillance", you will know our ship's every move, it will be hard then to launch any Active Ops from those ship. Thus ending the possibility of conducting active OPs with those ship.

Unless you claim China Coastal Surveillance is crap to nothing, or China do not monitor counter surveillance or Chinese counter surveillance is virtually moronic to a point of non-exist, then what you say can be true

Again, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SHIP. Not spy planes, and using Spy.

So your logic of "active intelligence gathering" will bring war is simply not the case at all.

I don't even know if you are just trolling or really that stupid to understand the basic concept of Active surveillance....

Please, go back to your Master course and ask them, I beg of you. You are wasting my time.

Anyway, if you choose to be ignorant and continue to believe what your senators tell you, it is up to you. Your presidents tell you that what U.S. have done in that past for other countries are purely for other countries freedom, benefits and etc... as if U.S. is such an altruistic country.

Basically, there are no argument from you except "I am a Master in Computer Engineering" And I know my stuff and you are wrong.

Shaky at best, good day if you have nothing supporting you

Read this before commenting., please, at least give us some challenge

The Law of Foreign Intelligence-Gathering: Intelligence Gathering in the High Seas: The Attack on the USS Liberty

This guy consistently confuses intent with method.

Yes, our intention is truly active in that we send vessels 'over there'.

But no, our method is passive in that the vessels just flew/sailed by the same way any vessel would.

Am not sure how much further we could dumb this down...

You can't, how are you suppose to talk to a person about passive intel gathering with ship in someone's EEZ and he talk about how you use spy planes and drone to actively gather information. We and him are talking about two different things. You cannot dumb it down to his level, AS WE ARE IN DIFFERENT LEVEL.

And he claim he have a Computer Engineer degree from the US. Well, go figure.

For the Chinese members here, Basic Training would be: Please...No pain...No pain...!!!

lol he probably got screen BEFORE even getting to Basic Training, Too stupid to go through boot camp......

 

[Truth Finder]

The day China becomes SUPER POWER, I will only live on hakka noodles.

 

[JayAtl]

Honestly I fail to see the point between compare passive Intel gathering and War in Iraq. Can you explain further? Or it's just some of your brain fart at your finest hour??



You can say what you want that does not mean

A.) I have to believe it
B.) That is true

I can also say I have a PhD from Harvard and I have extensive knowledge on Electrical and Medicine, does that mean anything?



BUT WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT SURVILLENCE BIRD NOW, AREN'T WE.

I have already said, we have Spies in china to actively spy them, we fly remote control drone to "ACTIVELY" spy on China, BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THOSE SHIP AND EEZ. If you want to talk about active surveillance done by US Spies and Spy Plane, open a new thread,

Do you even familiar with the term "Mutual Observation" When we use those BIG ship to Passively spy on China, China will know and send out a monitoring party to do "Counter Surveillance", you will know our ship's every move, it will be hard then to launch any Active Ops from those ship. Thus ending the possibility of conducting active OPs with those ship.

Unless you claim China Coastal Surveillance is crap to nothing, or China do not monitor counter surveillance or Chinese counter surveillance is virtually moronic to a point of non-exist, then what you say can be true

Again, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SHIP. Not spy planes, and using Spy.



I don't even know if you are just trolling or really that stupid to understand the basic concept of Active surveillance....

Please, go back to your Master course and ask them, I beg of you. You are wasting my time.



Basically, there are no argument from you except "I am a Master in Computer Engineering" And I know my stuff and you are wrong.

Shaky at best, good day if you have nothing supporting you

Read this before commenting., please, at least give us some challenge

The Law of Foreign Intelligence-Gathering: Intelligence Gathering in the High Seas: The Attack on the USS Liberty



You can't, how are you suppose to talk to a person about passive intel gathering with ship in someone's EEZ and he talk about how you use spy planes and drone to actively gather information. We and him are talking about two different things. You cannot dumb it down to his level, AS WE ARE IN DIFFERENT LEVEL.

And he claim he have a Computer Engineer degree from the US. Well, go figure.



lol he probably got screen BEFORE even getting to Basic Training, Too stupid to go through boot camp......

You do realize that his argument can be summarized as such " Democratic US evil vs. state media_ tells me= good.

He is asking us to disbelieve " passive" mode in EEZ exists because america= evil, BUT to believe him because his Borg media and govt said so. That is his simpleton argument. He knows because his peeps tell him so...

This is how the dumb down ones wants us to debate.

 

[jhungary]

You do realize that his argument can be summarized as such " Democratic US evil vs. state media_ tells me= good.

He is asking us to disbelieve " passive" mode in EEZ exists because america= evil, BUT to believe him because his Borg media and govt said so. That is his simpleton argument. He knows because his peeps tell him so...

This is how the dumb down ones wants us to debate.

lol, but He is not a dumb downed person, according to him, he have a MS in Computer Engineering and he know shiite that we don't.

So, he said that and now WE MUST BELIEVE HIM

 

[ephone]

At your intelligence level, you dare to question others???

When does a dog think it is smart enough to challenge human???

Honestly I fail to see the point between compare passive Intel gathering and War in Iraq. Can you explain further? Or it's just some of your brain fart at your finest hour??



You can say what you want that does not mean

A.) I have to believe it
B.) That is true

I can also say I have a PhD from Harvard and I have extensive knowledge on Electrical and Medicine, does that mean anything?



BUT WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT SURVILLENCE BIRD NOW, AREN'T WE.

I have already said, we have Spies in china to actively spy them, we fly remote control drone to "ACTIVELY" spy on China, BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THOSE SHIP AND EEZ. If you want to talk about active surveillance done by US Spies and Spy Plane, open a new thread,

Do you even familiar with the term "Mutual Observation" When we use those BIG ship to Passively spy on China, China will know and send out a monitoring party to do "Counter Surveillance", you will know our ship's every move, it will be hard then to launch any Active Ops from those ship. Thus ending the possibility of conducting active OPs with those ship.

Unless you claim China Coastal Surveillance is crap to nothing, or China do not monitor counter surveillance or Chinese counter surveillance is virtually moronic to a point of non-exist, then what you say can be true

Again, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SHIP. Not spy planes, and using Spy.



I don't even know if you are just trolling or really that stupid to understand the basic concept of Active surveillance....

Please, go back to your Master course and ask them, I beg of you. You are wasting my time.



Basically, there are no argument from you except "I am a Master in Computer Engineering" And I know my stuff and you are wrong.

Shaky at best, good day if you have nothing supporting you

Read this before commenting., please, at least give us some challenge

The Law of Foreign Intelligence-Gathering: Intelligence Gathering in the High Seas: The Attack on the USS Liberty



You can't, how are you suppose to talk to a person about passive intel gathering with ship in someone's EEZ and he talk about how you use spy planes and drone to actively gather information. We and him are talking about two different things. You cannot dumb it down to his level, AS WE ARE IN DIFFERENT LEVEL.

And he claim he have a Computer Engineer degree from the US. Well, go figure.



lol he probably got screen BEFORE even getting to Basic Training, Too stupid to go through boot camp......