Phase two: Radicalization of Pakistani middle class

[Jackdaws]

You live in Turkey. Surely the best way forward is to take a leaf out of Ataturk's book and stop religion in state affairs. It hasn't made Turkey any less Islamic.

 

[Hyperion]

Jackdaws:

No mate. Religion itself is not the issue. Turkey never changed me, I was taught at home like this.

Pakistan used to be serene and beautiful place, until the introduction of 'arabized' islam. I don't want to get into the details at the moment, as it will most definitely derail the thread!

 

[Developereo]

Developereo:

Mate, we differ on the core issue. I think curricula is the root cause. We CAN NOT change the mindset of present generation, they have already been corrupted beyond repair. The only logical step would be to subdue the present one and work on the next one.

No, we agree that school curriculum is a problem. Where we disagree is how to address it.

The OP posits that (certain) religious groups should not run schools. I don't accept that, since we allow other religious groups to run schools. On what basis can we discriminate against certain groups and not others? Anyone should be allowed to run schools as long as the curriculum meets local and federal guidelines.

It's not about anyone's religion, but the requirement to abide by local and federal laws. Pakistan is a conservative country, and it is a poor country. Since the government can't (or won't) provide public education to everybody, private religious charities step in. Rather than stopping them, we should co-opt their help, but make sure they are teaching the right things.

 

[ghauri05]

People really want Islam back in their lives(bcoz they are fed up with this western cultre now as they has realized that this cultutre has brought nothing good to them) and any attempt to do so is labeled as radicallization by westernized people here.

 

[Hyperion]

No, we agree that school curriculum is a problem. * Good.

On what basis can we discriminate against certain groups and not others? * Mate, democratic standpoint is even above and beyond the original definition of democracy. First of all kudos on your liberal thought pattern, however, tell me how can you compare a Saudi 'envisioned' curricula to any other curricula?

Anyone should be allowed to run schools as long as the curriculum meets local and federal guidelines. * Really, who ever met the federal guidelines in the past three decades?

It's not about anyone's religion, but the requirement to abide by local and federal laws. * Mate seriously, who is going to enforce those on a Talbanese school? Remember the "all masjid", it was the defacto second parliament of Pakistan. How did that end?

Pakistan is a conservative country * IS, is the punch line. It never was such an intolerable country before, maybe you're very young?

Since the government can't (or won't) provide public education to everybody, private religious charities step in. * WOW... WOW... Such a sweeping statement. If the government can't supply security, should I go on a shooting spree?

We should co-opt their help, but make sure they are teaching the right things. * I don't think so mate, let's not be that naive

 

[Hyperion]

xyxmt & ghauri05, what are you dudes on? Pass me some of it!

 

[Spring Onion]

People really want Islam back in their lives(bcoz they are fed up with this western cultre now as they has realized that this cultutre has brought nothing good to them) and any attempt to do so is labeled as radicallization by westernized people here.

Islam is one thing radicalization is quiet another. the former never departed from lives of Muslims so there is no question of bringing it back while the later is something being imposed upon us collectively

 

[Hyperion]

@Andromache: Awesome reply mate!

 

[Spring Onion]

we need a 100% redicalized country so in case of next war with India we have 180 million martyrs

That is a stupidity at best. And why you think the Indians will be able to martyr 180 million Pakistanis

 

[Developereo]

No, we agree that school curriculum is a problem. * Good.

On what basis can we discriminate against certain groups and not others? * Mate, democratic standpoint is even above and beyond the original definition of democracy. First of all kudos on your liberal thought pattern, however, tell me how can you compare a Saudi 'envisioned' curricula to any other curricula?

Anyone should be allowed to run schools as long as the curriculum meets local and federal guidelines. * Really, who ever met the federal guidelines in the past three decades?

It's not about anyone's religion, but the requirement to abide by local and federal laws. * Mate seriously, who is going to enforce those on a Talbanese school? Remember the "all masjid", it was the defacto second parliament of Pakistan. How did that end?

Pakistan is a conservative country * IS, is the punch line. It never was such an intolerable country before, maybe you're very young?

Since the government can't (or won't) provide public education to everybody, private religious charities step in. * WOW... WOW... Such a sweeping statement. If the government can't supply security, should I go on a shooting spree?

We should co-opt their help, but make sure they are teaching the right things. * I don't think so mate, let's not be that naive

We're talking in circles. The curriculum should be regulated by the Board of Education, not local school administrators. If the government fails to provide adequate public schooling, or to regulate the curricula in private schools, then it is a failure of governance.

Pakistan is a conservative Muslim country and demonizing Muslim charity organizations will prove counter productive. We need to frame this as a law and governance issue, not a 'crusade' against specific Muslim organizations. The matter needs to be approached very delicately: unless it is made crystal clear that this is a fight against radicalism, and not Islam, the campaign will play right into the hands of the extremists.

 

[Hyperion]

@Developereo: Allright, we agree partially!

Now, lemme go and get cigarettes, just ran out..... LOL

 

[SBD-3]

We're talking in circles. The curriculum should be regulated by the Board of Education, not local school administrators. If the government fails to provide adequate public schooling, or to regulate the curricula in private schools, then it is a failure of governance.

Pakistan is a conservative Muslim country and demonizing Muslim charity organizations will prove counter productive. We need to frame this as a law and governance issue, not a 'crusade' against specific Muslim organizations. The matter needs to be approached very delicately: unless it is made crystal clear that this is a fight against radicalism, and not Islam, the campaign will play right into the hands of the extremists.

I think Islam should not be mixed with radicalization. Unfortunately, the propoganda of western and Indian media has tagged Islam as radicalization. The islamic schools that follow a hybrid model of Islamic as well as academic education have proved to be a great success recently. Most of these school are not free (like madrisas, some are expensive indeed) but people still prefer to send their childern to these school so as their child get both religious as well as academic training at one place. And I dont think if quality education is on offer, there should be an Issue. However, i do think that such initiatives are much more effective than establishment of purely religious schools (madrissas) since even a student of Islamic religion spends equal energy on gaining the knowledge, his reward is almost peanuts as compared to a person who spends his energies on market based education. This is what sparks disparity, so I always appriciate such steps since it is essential that the student should be able to find himself a respectable occupation after investing a significant part of his life in education.

You live in Turkey. Surely the best way forward is to take a leaf out of Ataturk's book and stop religion in state affairs. It hasn't made Turkey any less Islamic.

Have you even seen your Cartoons and Dramas where hinduism is continously preached? So before advising other about what to do and adopt correct your own secularisim which has no place for anyother religion on media except hinduism.

 

[FatihSultanMehmet]

is PAKTURK international schools and colleges good ?

 

[Spring Onion]

is PAKTURK international schools and colleges good ?

YES . good ones and better

 

[Safriz]

YES . good ones and better

Welcome back Jana
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