Parrikar not a easy person to deal with-RFP deviation strengthen French negotiators on MMRCA

[$@rJen]

RFP deviation strengthen French negotiators on MMRCA
Published January 5, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE : IDRW NEWS NETWORK ( INN)

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar is not easy person to deal with, Ex-CM of Goa has ability to go through contracts and draw out shortcomings, his technical educational background comes in handy many times said people who have worked with him when he was CM of Goa , French might be learning more of Sharp and active Parrikar lately .

Parrikar was amused how previous government allowed Dassault Aviation hijack whole MMRCA negotiation with India. Dassault not only dictated terms but also started diverting from original Request for Proposal (RFP) clauses issued by India.

Dassault Aviation selected Reliance Industries Limited (RIL) as its private sector partner to manufacture the Rafale Combat jets in India soon after Rafale was declared L1 bidder trying to bypass Hindustan Aeronautics Limited from start which was first deviation of RFP) clauses, since it was always clear that Government owned HAL will be Production House.

Then Dassault Aviation blamed that Hindustan Aeronautics Limited doesn’t have proper infrastructure to build and absorb Transfer of Technology (TOT) fully aware that HAL was building Russian Sukhoi-30MKI in Country , while RIL had not even taken up any aviation Projects in the country let alone manufacturing of 4++ Generation fighter aircrafts .

Second deviation was guarantee clause which was part of RFP which had was placed so that HAL made jets covered Delivery schedules and meet Product quality. While many blamed HAL over the issue and argued how Dassault Aviation should be liable to Delivery schedules and meet Product quality when they were not manufacturing them?
Government had told that if delays happens due to HAL they won’t be any penalties for Dassault Aviation, but they refused and prolonged negotiations.

While India soften its stand, Dassault Aviation was still not making any moves to break deadlocks. What might have started all out war in open was When Dassault Aviation asked HAL and India to provide documents and agreements which Russia and India had agreed on for TOT and manufacturing of Sukhoi-30MKI in India.

Some Expert believe that Dassault Aviation has been cleverly diverting from Request for Proposal (RFP) clauses to delay MMRCA deal to later seek a higher price, which agreed will be double from the Quoted price of 2012.

Parrikar’s open support on purchasing of additional Su-30MKI and talks of likely collapse of the deal has shook French Dassault Aviation, who are coming back to India with better negotiation team . Dassault Aviation has failed to get Export customer for Rafale in last decade due to frequent flip-flops with negotiating customers , While many called off talks after few months , with India they kept the pot boiling for 3 years and its right time to turn off the fire .

@Abingdonboy @Koovie @sancho

 

[C130]

I don't see how it's fair to low ball the initial bid and then double or even triple it in the end.

 

[SrNair]

Sorry to say when it comes to the weapons purchasing AK Antony was the biggest mistake that was bound to happen.

Now I hope our present DM will squeeze them.Now they will know the real caliber of an IITian minister.I am sure he will squeeze them.Other wise leave this deal and purchase Su 30MKi.If they dont want then so be it.

I don't see how it's fair to low ball the initial bid and then double or even triple it in the end.

That is why Dassault has a lot a concern.Now on we will dictate the deal terms.If they dont want,they can say bye bye to 20+billion $ .
We will purchase additional Su 30 and divert this fund to AMCA and FGFA.

 

[cerberus]

RFP deviation strengthen French negotiators on MMRCA
Published January 5, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE : IDRW NEWS NETWORK ( INN)

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar is not easy person to deal with, Ex-CM of Goa has ability to go through contracts and draw out shortcomings, his technical educational background comes in handy many times said people who have worked with him when he was CM of Goa , French might be learning more of Sharp and active Parrikar lately .

Parrikar was amused how previous government allowed Dassault Aviation hijack whole MMRCA negotiation with India. Dassault not only dictated terms but also started diverting from original Request for Proposal (RFP) clauses issued by India.

Dassault Aviation selected Reliance Industries Limited (RIL) as its private sector partner to manufacture the Rafale Combat jets in India soon after Rafale was declared L1 bidder trying to bypass Hindustan Aeronautics Limited from start which was first deviation of RFP) clauses, since it was always clear that Government owned HAL will be Production House.

Then Dassault Aviation blamed that Hindustan Aeronautics Limited doesn’t have proper infrastructure to build and absorb Transfer of Technology (TOT) fully aware that HAL was building Russian Sukhoi-30MKI in Country , while RIL had not even taken up any aviation Projects in the country let alone manufacturing of 4++ Generation fighter aircrafts .

Second deviation was guarantee clause which was part of RFP which had was placed so that HAL made jets covered Delivery schedules and meet Product quality. While many blamed HAL over the issue and argued how Dassault Aviation should be liable to Delivery schedules and meet Product quality when they were not manufacturing them?
Government had told that if delays happens due to HAL they won’t be any penalties for Dassault Aviation, but they refused and prolonged negotiations.

While India soften its stand, Dassault Aviation was still not making any moves to break deadlocks. What might have started all out war in open was When Dassault Aviation asked HAL and India to provide documents and agreements which Russia and India had agreed on for TOT and manufacturing of Sukhoi-30MKI in India.

Some Expert believe that Dassault Aviation has been cleverly diverting from Request for Proposal (RFP) clauses to delay MMRCA deal to later seek a higher price, which agreed will be double from the Quoted price of 2012.

Parrikar’s open support on purchasing of additional Su-30MKI and talks of likely collapse of the deal has shook French Dassault Aviation, who are coming back to India with better negotiation team . Dassault Aviation has failed to get Export customer for Rafale in last decade due to frequent flip-flops with negotiating customers , While many called off talks after few months , with India they kept the pot boiling for 3 years and its right time to turn off the fire .

Well it's astonishing fact that Are DM is IITian Perfect for the Job he perfectly possess technical knowledge to understand details of such deals.
Unlike Antony who was a ARTs &Law graduate.well Modi made very accurate decision in defence sector while choosing it will benefit us in long terms.

 

[$@rJen]

Rafale Deal: Ball is in France’s court, says India






Sunday, January 04, 2015

By : The Hindu




The multi—billion dollar Rafale fighter jet contract with France has run into rough weather over a guarantee clause and steep rise in price with India making it clear that the ball is in France’s court as it looks at the option of buying more Russian Sukhoi—30 MKI warplanes as a back—up plan.

• The multi—billion dollar Rafale fighter jet contract with France has run into rough weather over a guarantee clause and steep rise in price with India making it clear that the ball is in France’s court as it looks at the option of buying more Russian Sukhoi—30 MKI warplanes as a back—up plan.
  
  India is insisting that Dassault Aviation, which manufactures Rafale, cannot renege on the Request for Proposal (RFP) clauses, which it had initially agreed to.
  
  The situation has come to such a level that France has been forced to send an empowered delegation later this month to “solve all remaining issues” to salvage the contract.
  
  A top Defence Ministry official here had this week admitted that there were problems and said India could consider buying more Russian—made Sukhoi—30 planes if the proposed deal with France collapsed.
  
  Recalling the last month’s meeting between Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and his French counterpart, sources said French “were told categorically to stick to the RFP”.
  
  “The ball is in France’s court,” the sources said adding that if the “RFP is adhered to, the deal can be wrapped up soon”.
  
  They claimed that while the deal was initially for about Rs. 42,000 crore, French are seeking a higher price now. This, the sources said, has put the price at a “little more than double the cost”.
  
  Dassault did not comment on queries sent by PTI to it.
  
  The French Rafale and European Eurofighter Typhoon were the only one left standing after years of tests on technical and other aspects.
  
  “Rafale was selected in 2012 since it was the lowest bidder. The difference in cost with the second bidder was razor thin. With cost now more than double, how can it be the lowest bidder,” the sources said, explaining why the negotiation for a final contract has been taking so much time.
  
  Another point of contention is the guarantee clause under which Rafale has to stand guarantee for the planes that would be manufactured by state-owned HAL.
  
  As per the RFP issued in 2007, the first 18 jets are to be imported and the rest 108 manufactured under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).

 

[Krate M]

Also restart negotiations with L2 eurofighter is not bad at all! With very little price difference then, it should be possible to go for a combo deal of EF + Airbus A330 tanker as EADS is the main negotiator for both. Plus BAe has recent experience of working with HAL as well as other Indian suppliers.

BTW I am a big fan of rafale, but Indian interests come first.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Also restart negotiations with L2 eurofighter is not bad at a

The DM ruled out the Eurofighter being allowed back into the fray entirely. He has only said there is an option to go for more MKIs and is clearly only saying this to apply pressure on the French.

If they dont want,they can say bye bye to 20+billion $ .

The deal isn't worth $20 Billion and never has been bro. It is around $15-16 Billion, both sides have mentioned this.

 

[Koovie]

Well I certainly hope so... we are talking about tax payer money and national security.

And its only natural that neither side wants to give even an inch away, since we are talking about +15 billion USD`s

 

[MilSpec]

@sancho @Dillinger What in your opinion is the risk in scrapping rafale, and redirecting it to PMF FGFA.

 

[cerberus]

@sancho @Dillinger What in your opinion is the risk in scrapping rafale, and redirecting it to PMF FGFA.

Nothing I guess better It should be spended on buying more Mki and Also in Mki MLU.May be in future F-35 for our Catobar Requirements.and other projects like Aesa 'uttam' for Mk2

 

[Abingdonboy]

@sancho @Dillinger What in your opinion is the risk in scrapping rafale, and redirecting it to PMF FGFA.

The FGFA is only going to enter service by 2022 at the earliest (around the time the final batch of the 126 Rafales would be delivered into IAF hands). The risk is the IAF's depleting SQD strength won't be addressed for another decade (if you go down the FGFA route)and in about 2 years the fleet numbers will crash through the floor as the MiG-21s and 27s are all retired from service. Not to mention the nature of the heavy 5th generation aircraft is to be incredibly complex and expensive to maintain. Top heavy would be an understatement with a further 126-200 FGFAs (in addition to the 200+ already on order) on top of 300+ MKIs inservice/on order.

The MMRCA is vital no way around it sir- more LCAs won't cut the mustard and more MKIs/FGFA will not only take too much time to be delivered but will also cripple the IAF as far as maintaining these beasts goes.

 

[MilSpec]

The FGFA is only going to enter service by 2022 at the earliest (around the time the final batch of the 126 Rafales would be delivered into IAF hands). The risk is the IAF's depleting SQD strength won't be addressed for another decade (if you go down the FGFA route)and in about 2 years the fleet numbers will crash through the floor as the MiG-21s and 27s are all retired from service. Not to mention the nature of the heavy 5th generation aircraft is to be incredibly complex and expensive to maintain. Top heavy would be an understatement with a further 126-200 FGFAs (in addition to the 200+ already on order) on top of 300+ MKIs inservice/on order.

The MMRCA is vital no way around it sir- more LCAs won't cut the mustard and more MKIs/FGFA will not only take too much time to be delivered but will also cripple the IAF as far as maintaining these beasts goes.

hi,
Don't get me wrong. i am a big Rafale fan, and I know we will see it in IAF color. Let this be just an exercise to to tickle some scenarios.

What if we go through Mig 27 Dare III upgrades for all existing airframes. It will be a max 0.75 billion dollar project
And as a stop gap measure induct three sqdns of Mig29K (not m2 or ovt, upg or ) as it is already in production for the navy. there is nothing the mig29K cannot do that the mig29upg can. it will provide STOL so a prime candidate for the forward operating bases.

LCA mk2 will enter production in 2016, so by 2020, you can have 10 years of life extension on mig27's, two sqdns of LCA mk2 and three additional sqds of Mig 29.

With MMRCA cancelled, there could be some fire lit under HAL's feet to ramp up LCA mk2 to 20 units a year.

Sure it's not ideal, we will still be short on sqdn strength, but we have been short on sqdn strength for decades now.

With 10-15 billion dollars in the kitty, We can start producing single seat russian config PMF FGFA in 2022 with MKI production winding up in HAL Nasik, we can start MKI'sing Pakfa to twin seat PMF FGFA.

 

[axisofevil]

F-k Rafeal. I hope it doesn't work out. Just look at how Congress handled this deal. Sonia and Rahul are a bunch of idiots. I hope Indians realize this once and for all. No wonder India has not developed at the same pace as China or other countries. We have a list of excuses but neglect to point out their role in all this.


This should be the standard for defence ministers from now on. Learn from it. No more RSS, Congress, Laloo's, Mayawati's, Rahuls, Vadra's, etc. Only elect the most capable individul to any party that floats the best candidate. Tat's why I voted for Modi.



Just seeing how the Frenc were dictating our OWN CONTRACT is mind boggling. Wake up already..

“Rafale was selected in 2012 since it was the lowest bidder. The difference in cost with the second bidder was razor thin. With cost now more than double, how can it be the lowest bidder,” the sources said, explaining why the negotiation for a final contract has been taking so much time.


Never forget this point. I told you that this was the only reason Rafael was chosen. now look at its bloated price. The French are notorious for bribery and corruption.

 

[AUz]

so funny to see indians all over the place with this one..

 

[Hindustani78]

Sorry to say when it comes to the weapons purchasing AK Antony was the biggest mistake that was bound to happen.

There was mix legacy when its was about Ak Antony

We even had some good deals like procuring six mid-air refueling tankers and C-130J Super Hercules aircraft. Even this 126 combat fighter deal was signed during his time but even there were set backs because of deals which went under scanner like that VVIP choppers from Anglo-Italian firm AugustaWestland, trucks from British firm Tatra Sipox, supply of components for Arjun battle tanks etc.

Now I hope our present DM will squeeze them.Now they will know the real caliber of an IITian minister.I am sure he will squeeze them.Other wise leave this deal and purchase Su 30MKi.If they dont want then so be it.

This Rafale deal would be good for India and i hope that negotiations will be fruitful.

Su30Mki we are already having and this Rafale deal would make the airforce more stronger.