PakPositivism: How to manage Discourse for PakPosters on PDF!!!

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

My very dear Paks,

Changing world..fast and nearing accute conflicts...be it in Geopolitics/Geoeconomics or Technology.

We need to learn to be eachothers strength and build upon it.

Although, heated debates among Paks is only natural thing, however, it is imperative not to forget that We all are Paks!

Since, the world is shapping itself for new possible Form... we must also learn to adopt to its emerging vectors.

Take for example this 25yrs Sino-Iranian StrategicDeal ... of course, it has far reaching effects... India out...China in! CPEC will transform further.

Or the Liberation of some parts of IndianOccupiedLadakh by the PLA... and its subsequence equations...

Or the rising tensions in SouthChinaSea...

And of course, KhooniVirus and its devastation in loss of HumanLives and destruction of GlobalEconomy.

We need to up our game in discourse here on PDF. Doing the same old, same old is neither mentally challenging nor is fun anymore.

Perhaps, it is important that we Change!

Regarding the good Indians...

I for one support their full presence here...otherwise, we won't be able to know/learn their thinking...even though here on PDF the most of good Indians are rather restrained in their 'thinking' ...unlike BRF or other Indian Fora....

They do try to derail or mock but taking their bait should be passé now.

Please, that DeityCow is Mother to Indians and the byproduct of this Deity is sacred for the good Indians.

By mocking them about DeityCowGifts ... we don't gain anything.

Instead we can choose to show respect and either remain quiet about it or write in encouraging, respectful manner...so that we don't hurt the feelings of the Most Indians here on PDF!

Same goes for DeityMonkey or DeityElephant or anyohter deities that the good Indians worship... we can choose not to comment but show respect.

Our focus must remain PakKashmiris in IoJK and then Muslims of MaqboozaHindustan... we must keep standing up for their rights or voice concerns/outrage at IndianStateSponsored Violence against Muslims in India or Killing of PakKashmiris.

Of course, we need to protect OurIslamic and Ancient Heritage and not allow the good Indians with day-time robbery in their quest for Supremecy!

And that brings us to the question of:

• How Does an Indian mind works?

• Do we fully understand Indianness?

• Can we try to see things from their perspective to be able to better counter it?

• How can we disect this ObssessiveCompulsiveness to be SuperPower by the good Indians?

Understanding the Nemesis is Key to Victory!

Yes, Indians are Incorrigible.... and we just cann't change that.

But we can try to up our game so to speak and try to engage Indians in a different manner...

These are subjects we can try to understand and implement together.

So allow me to invite you, Paks, and let us discuss it among ourselves whether we can come up with a better modus operandi to deal/engage with the good Indians here on PDF...that we might understand Indianness!

Thankyou!!!

Mangus

@masterchief_mirza @Ace of Spades @Areesh @DESERT FIGHTER @newb3e @Verve @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Clutch @Pandora @N.Siddiqui @Chakar The Great @Pakistan First @PAKISTANFOREVER @Max @Rafi @SIPRA Kindly, tag other PakPosters, please.

@jaibi @Foxtrot Alpha @The Eagle @LeGenD @PakSword @BHarwana @Moonlight PakBrothers... if you kindly, let this thread run in Member's section... and patrol it every now and then... would be great help!

 

[Ace of Spades]

In order to understand Indianness; we need to study the set of events, the narratives and their implementation indians conducted since their inception. There is an ideological basis however, this was coupled with factors of fear, complexities of our neighbor. Their conduct is mere reflection of their society and what they are doomed to be...

• How Does an Indian mind works?

• Do we fully understand Indianness?

• Can we try to see things from their perspective to be able to better counter it?

• How can we disect this ObssessiveCompulsiveness to be SuperPower by the good Indians?

Now to the questions you rightly posed...

Indian mind needs to be studied under the pre-context of those complexities and what's driving their ideology and eventual goal.

Pakistanis don't understand Indianess as it is; sometimes taking things at face value. There need to be a dissection of narrative, a study of how they've been operating in global and domestic stage so far. And only then we can see where are they heading.

IMO, Pakistanis can counter only after we discuss the end game of Indians.... hook or by crook, indians are trying to inch towards it. And in order to achieve this wet dream they've been using tactics of secularism, yoga, ram ram, om shanti om... or history and cultural robbing... taj mahal, budhism, Sansikrit, IVC, Ram.. fake bravado, fake narrative... a mere hogwash. To create relevance, to look relevant when in reality bare naked.

But the question to be asked is what is the end game... being superpower? or is it just a good sell in ganga land. Do indian intellectuals know that it's not happening.... which i believe they do.. so then why all this effort? what's gonna come out of it? And if it's just a narrative then what's it they want to achieve with it? To eventually scapegoat others, be the victims! It's imperative to realize that by looking at historical context and fabric of indian society, current structure and rise of extremism, the narrative behind it.

It's about survival... an artificial construct can't stay intact if such narratives are not peddled.

Let other members chip in and we expand on it further.

 

[Max]

Indians don't have their brain. Their minds are controlled by lowly jee newj, aaj tak etc.

Despite abject US, western support of last 3 decades to push them as bulwark against China and hegemon of South Asia. Their only obsession is harming Pakistan and Pakistanis and China doesn't matter to them. Yeah it can take few miles every few years for all Indians care but not an inch should go to Pakistan..

Indianess is how much you hate Pakistan, the more you hate Pakistan the more you Indian are.

If you want their perspective, there are Indian state sponsored online propaganda which include Print, WION, RepublicTv. This is how messed up Indian state is.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

In order to understand Indianness; we need to study the set of events, the narratives and their implementation indians conducted since their inception. There is an ideological basis however, this was coupled with factors of fear, complexities of our neighbor. Their conduct is mere reflection of their society and what they are doomed to be...



Now to the questions you rightly posed...

Indian mind needs to be studied under the pre-context of those complexities and what's driving their ideology and eventual goal.

Pakistanis don't understand Indianess as it is; sometimes taking things at face value. There need to be a dissection of narrative, a study of how they've been operating in global and domestic stage so far. And only then we can see where are they heading.

IMO, Pakistanis can counter only after we discuss the end game of Indians.... hook or by crook, indians are trying to inch towards it. And in order to achieve this wet dream they've been using tactics of yoga, ram ram, om shanti om... or history and cultural robbing... taj mahal, budhism, Sansikrit, IVC, Ram.. fake bravado, fake narrative... a mere hogwash. To create relevance, to look relevant when in reality bare naked.

But the question to be asked is what is the end game... being superpower? or is it just a good sell in ganga land. Do indian intellectuals know that it's not happening.... which i believe they do.. so then why all this effort? what's gonna come out of it? And if it's just a narrative then what's it they want to achieve with it? To eventually scapegoat others, be the victims! It's imperative to realize that by looking at historical context and fabric of indian society, current structure and rise of extremism, the narrative behind it.

It's about survival... an artificial construct can't stay intact if such narratives are not peddled.

Let other members chip in and we expand on it further.

PakBrother mine,

Indeed, a vaild observation.

Perhaps one has clear notion/piture of the good Indians' EndGame.... but let other Paks pitch in as you said.

This has to be an unemotional, rational and detached process if we wish have validated Clarity on the Indian End Game.

Thus we can Retro-engineer or better said Deconstruct Indianness!

It is equally valuable to note what has been the Conduct of this GeoConstruct of Imperial Enterprise till date... how succeccful it has been and where are/were its failures!

Indiannnes? Indian End Game?

Let us invite a YoungPakSister of ours... @Anum A.Khan1 who might help us understand the Indinan End Game!!!

Mangus

 

[masterchief_mirza]

PakBrother mine,

Indeed, a vaild observation.

Perhaps one has clear notion/piture of the good Indians' EndGame.... but let other Paks pitch in as you said.

This has to be an unemotional, rational and detached process if we wish have validated Clarity on the Indian End Game.

Thus we can Retro-engineer or better said Deconstruct Indianness!

It is equally valuable to note what has been the Conduct of this GeoConstruct of Imperial Enterprise till date... how succeccful it has been and where are/were its failures!

Indiannnes? Indian End Game?

Let us invite a YoungPakSister of ours... @Anum A.Khan1 who might help us understand the Indinan End Game!!!

Mangus

I would take the recent deployment of certain echo chambers with fanciful virtue signalling titles with a grain of salt. Assess Indians and indianness on merit and merit alone; they happily wander off the edge of their own abyss with minimal external effort.

Honestly, the delusions that some pdf-ers cling on to, whether nefariously or naively, are evidence enough of a downward spiral. Genuine Indian moderates - who do exist - are drowned out by bhakts on the one hand, bhakt apologists on the other hand, and this unique category of "hindutva deniers" on the other (3rd??). If they are SO deluded that they can't objectively see how different their nation is to established democratic and secular states, there is little anyone on the outside can or should do.

This is my humble psychoanalysis.

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

Oh come on man what's wrong with you? Stop having sympathy for them we have members from other nations but Indians just hate us. Here are few things they would never digest
1. If you are having valuable discussion and they feel left out.
2. Every thing on this planet revolves around them and therefore in every subject the word Indian need to be seen.
3. They are most gullible people ever ever ever.
4. They are unable to differentiate between mythology(bollywood)and reality.
5. Many smart and decent one's are often too soft and too polite to make any difference and are hostage in their own land and one feel sorry for them.
Someone did say the famous qoute about them
"Either at your throat or at your feet"
You choose where you want them. Our humbleness is often taken granted for and as a result they are always at our throat all the time.
And at American feet at this very time to come save their asses.
I'm sorry to be sounding like that but its sickening to see Indian sympathy here. I mean we have members from other nations did you ever came across the thread regarding US, Turkish, Iranian or even Israeli members?
I wonder who the trouble maker is and im sure many on this forum know the answer. We just need to expose their lies counter them with facts and let their own readers and viewers make up their mind.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

@PAKISTANFOREVER @letsrock @Morpheus @Verve @masterchief_mirza

All of us have seen the damage wrought by underestimating the Indian menace. They are masters of hiding their true natures. When Pakistanis realize who they actually are, then we can fight them in the proper manner. It goes doubly for our state.

For the record, open hindutva trolls are less of a threat than the hidden ones.

Thoughts brothers.

 

[Yankee-stani]

At end of the day I just wanna see this happen thats what Pakistanis should strive for at this point

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

@PAKISTANFOREVER @letsrock @Morpheus @Verve @masterchief_mirza

All of us have seen the damage wrought by underestimating the Indian menace. They are masters of hiding their true natures. When Pakistanis realize who they actually are, then we can fight them in the proper manner. It goes doubly for our state.

For the record, open hindutva trolls are less of a threat than the hidden ones.

Thoughts brothers.

At the moment, india and indians have been badly exposed. The illusion of india being a superpower that can take on China has been thoroughly exposed and destroyed. In fact we have found that the gap between China and indian is even more hugely larger than the gap between Pakistan and india. As a result, the over-confident indian facists have toned down their anti-Pakistani, anti-Muslim racism. They have realized that india is NOWHERE near as powerful as they thought it was.

 

[Jackdaws]

Indians themselves don't understand Indians. Best of luck to you chaps if you crack it.

 

[Ladyuk]

Oh come on man what's wrong with you? Stop having sympathy for them we have members from other nations but Indians just hate us. Here are few things they would never digest
1. If you are having valuable discussion and they feel left out.
2. Every thing on this planet revolves around them and therefore in every subject the word Indian need to be seen.
3. They are most gullible people ever ever ever.
4. They are unable to differentiate between mythology(bollywood)and reality.
5. Many smart and decent one's are often too soft and too polite to make any difference and are hostage in their own land and one feel sorry for them.
Someone did say the famous qoute about them
"Either at your throat or at your feet"
You choose where you want them. Our humbleness is often taken granted for and as a result they are always at our throat all the time.
And at American feet at this very time to come save their asses.
I'm sorry to be sounding like that but its sickening to see Indian sympathy here. I mean we have members from other nations did you ever came across the thread regarding US, Turkish, Iranian or even Israeli members?
I wonder who the trouble maker is and im sure many on this forum know the answer. We just need to expose their lies counter them with facts and let their own readers and viewers make up their mind.

I 110% agree with you, you really understand their mentality and there is no appeasing the pakistan hating type Indians, although there are a few descent and reasonable indians most hate us and always will do.
In pakistan there are too many people who believe in the aman ki asha nonsense and think if the Kashmir issue is resolved we can live as peaceful neighbours.

 

[peagle]

My very dear Paks,

Changing world..fast and nearing accute conflicts...be it in Geopolitics/Geoeconomics or Technology.

We need to learn to be eachothers strength and build upon it.

Although, heated debates among Paks is only natural thing, however, it is imperative not to forget that We all are Paks!

Since, the world is shapping itself for new possible Form... we must also learn to adopt to its emerging vectors.

Take for example this 25yrs Sino-Iranian StrategicDeal ... of course, it has far reaching effects... India out...China in! CPEC will transform further.

Or the Liberation of some parts of IndianOccupiedLadakh by the PLA... and its subsequence equations...

Or the rising tensions in SouthChinaSea...

And of course, KhooniVirus and its devastation in loss of HumanLives and destruction of GlobalEconomy.

We need to up our game in discourse here on PDF. Doing the same old, same old is neither mentally challenging nor is fun anymore.

Perhaps, it is important that we Change!

Regarding the good Indians...

I for one support their full presence here...otherwise, we won't be able to know/learn their thinking...even though here on PDF the most of good Indians are rather restrained in their 'thinking' ...unlike BRF or other Indian Fora....

They do try to derail or mock but taking their bait should be passé now.

Please, that DeityCow is Mother to Indians and the byproduct of this Deity is sacred for the good Indians.

By mocking them about DeityCowGifts ... we don't gain anything.

Instead we can choose to show respect and either remain quiet about it or write in encouraging, respectful manner...so that we don't hurt the feelings of the Most Indians here on PDF!

Same goes for DeityMonkey or DeityElephant or anyohter deities that the good Indians worship... we can choose not to comment but show respect.

Our focus must remain PakKashmiris in IoJK and then Muslims of MaqboozaHindustan... we must keep standing up for their rights or voice concerns/outrage at IndianStateSponsored Violence against Muslims in India or Killing of PakKashmiris.

Of course, we need to protect OurIslamic and Ancient Heritage and not allow the good Indians with day-time robbery in their quest for Supremecy!

And that brings us to the question of:

• How Does an Indian mind works?

• Do we fully understand Indianness?

• Can we try to see things from their perspective to be able to better counter it?

• How can we disect this ObssessiveCompulsiveness to be SuperPower by the good Indians?

Understanding the Nemesis is Key to Victory!

Yes, Indians are Incorrigible.... and we just cann't change that.

But we can try to up our game so to speak and try to engage Indians in a different manner...

These are subjects we can try to understand and implement together.

So allow me to invite you, Paks, and let us discuss it among ourselves whether we can come up with a better modus operandi to deal/engage with the good Indians here on PDF...that we might understand Indianness!

Thankyou!!!

Mangus

@masterchief_mirza @Ace of Spades @Areesh @DESERT FIGHTER @newb3e @Verve @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Clutch @Pandora @N.Siddiqui @Chakar The Great @Pakistan First @PAKISTANFOREVER @Max @Rafi @SIPRA Kindly, tag other PakPosters, please.

@jaibi @Foxtrot Alpha @The Eagle @LeGenD @PakSword @BHarwana @Moonlight PakBrothers... if you kindly, let this thread run in Member's section... and patrol it every now and then... would be great help!

My reply below applies to a large majority of Indians, one to one they like Pakistanis as we like them, but their views of us as a collective, as Pakistanis (collective) rather than just Pakistani (individual) tend to be very different, the hatred for Pakistan as a state or a nation reaches another level altogether.

So, it is important to differentiate this triangular dichotomy in how they view us. And I believe it is by design, maybe not by individuals but the government, intellectuals and media has reinforced this separation over the past decades into the Indian mindset. I don’t care why it is there, it is there and should be recognised as a source of hatred.

It is designed to assuage the average Pakistani to say you are ok, it’s just your society, government, army or country that we hate. So the person at an individual level does not feel insulted. It is like saying you are ok but your mother or father is a scum, and your family are a bunch of tramps.
It is such a refined attack, that we have adopted it into our mindset. The people are good but everything else is bad, but you are part of the “everything”, that collective being criticised, you are a part of that collective. You are being criticised.

I will keep everything condensed, with the expectation I am among a knowledgeable group.

• How Does an Indian mind works?

Firstly, creates a historical link into the imagined ancient past in order to justify the modern Indian states historical foundation, a Bharat Mata if you will, even though the term only came into being just 100 years prior but the imagery is that they have existed till the dawn of time as a nation(for those who are not clear, India is only as old as Pakistan).

Secondly, Like the Huns for Romans, the Russian bear for British Raj, the Red Soviets for America, the othering of Pakistan as an evil entity such as Lanka in the Ramayana and Mahabharata, a modern day Lanka to create a sense of unity among the people, us vs. them, we are civilised they are terrorist etc etc. The modern day Lanka without which the Indian identity would be weak. It has helped in creating a sense of indianness since its independence and still in play, that’s why Pakistan bashing gets votes at every election.

Thirdly, the dream of a great superpower the world worships, India itself is a Godly figure for the world, the imagery of that imagination. So the historical link with the ancient past, the creation (in their mindset) of Lanka (Pakistan) for the modern age and the religious Godly superpower that is India to complete the fantasy of the Indian mind. The past, present and the future.

Sorry longer then I planned but still massively condensed.

• Do we fully understand Indianness?

We never have, and still don’t, but there is an increasing number of viewpoints that are coming forward that shows that an enlightened thinker is awaking among Pakistanis. But any thought, idea or a conclusion is only alive as long as the masses absorb it, which takes time.

So far we have only recognised India in the same mindset in which they created for themselves (lazy intellectualism) and put three labels on India for ourselves, democracy, liberalism and secular. No one questioned if these are indeed factual labels for India. Why are there hundreds of riots every year since independence ( doesnt happen in Pakistan), why did a secular supreme court make religious rulings, such as the one in 1994 that declared that a mosque is not an essential part of Islam (one would think it’s a joke? But it’s not), why is there such high level of criminality among Indian Politician’s, where murderers and rapists are sitting in the legislatures (acounting for 30% of membership on average), endless examples, stories and facts, but we never questioned.

But, we have started to do so, we did not recognise them but have started to. Those doubters who were still unsure, we have to love modi; he kicked any doubt that was left out of their minds. Thank you a million times my great Modi gg, please come have some tea.

• Can we try to see things from their perspective to be able to better counter it?

When we did not attack in their war with China in 1962, that was us seeing it from their perspective (we got 1971), when we offered a no war pact, we were seeing it from their prospective (we got Siachen), when we had proof they were conducting terrorism in Pakistan during the 1960s and 70s and didnt pay in kind, we were seeing it from their prospective (we got training for MQM, creation of Baloch groups, endless other examples), when we offered to negotiate more often then was necessary and took part in empty negotiations we were seeing it from their prospective (we got support for further terror, including TTP). We have tried.

But, for them the only Pakistan they want to see is a Pakistan on its knees, nothing else will do. Balakot is a prime, most recent example. They only understand strength. The only perspective we need to show them is get our economy in shape, build intellectual capacity and unity, and stand tall, then they will be happy to talk with you for actual solutions. If you bend as a mark of respect, they will be unzipping the trouser. I don’t say to be disrespectful but as a recognition of Indian mindset.

• How can we dissect this ObssessiveCompulsiveness to be SuperPower by the good Indians?

By not playing nice, by getting our house in order, by stop complaining about everything under the sun, by developing like we did before, by helping to bring peace in Afghanistan, it is more important for us then to them. I could go on but you understand my meaning.

There is nothing we need to do for them, but stand strong from our side, make the required adjustment internally so that we are able to stand strong. The following will create a strong reaction, but please forget historical corruption, make laws and let the law take its course, it is more important to make sure corruption does not happen again then to recover money and punish historical corruption, it wastes more time, more money and creates instability.

It may not sound ideal but we are living in the real world, if you want results then we need to take result oriented actions. You go after everyone you will have no one left. Where is the unity? Where is the development?

 

[Musings]

@PAKISTANFOREVER @letsrock @Morpheus @Verve @masterchief_mirza

All of us have seen the damage wrought by underestimating the Indian menace. They are masters of hiding their true natures. When Pakistanis realize who they actually are, then we can fight them in the proper manner. It goes doubly for our state.

For the record, open hindutva trolls are less of a threat than the hidden ones.

Thoughts brothers.

wholeheartedly agree. Those openly trolling lack the brain capacity to be hostile or destructive - it’s those that use others as cannon fodder and keep their powder dry. Apologies if I sound repetitive - but 2 to 3 weeks ago an Indian member starts a thread about Pakistan and it’s petrols shortage - something frankly no indian really feels a need to acquire why there is a shortage - without fail a couple of trolls post within minutes - voicing concerns of Pakistan becoming a failed state etc - the OP doesn’t comment. Pakistani patriots blood pressure rises creating a flame bait thread.
This gentleman is what Indians that hide their trillion can do.
We want to hear an Indian perspective and there is no need to ask for wholesale bans etc but let’s just remember some
Of them have a deeper intent than they show.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

wholeheartedly agree. Those openly trolling lack the brain capacity to be hostile or destructive - it’s those that use others as cannon fodder and keep their powder dry. Apologies if I sound repetitive - but 2 to 3 weeks ago an Indian member starts a thread about Pakistan and it’s petrols shortage - something frankly no indian really feels a need to acquire why there is a shortage - without fail a couple of trolls post within minutes - voicing concerns of Pakistan becoming a failed state etc - the OP doesn’t comment. Pakistani patriots blood pressure rises creating a flame bait thread.
This gentleman is what Indians that hide their trillion can do.
We want to hear an Indian perspective and there is no need to ask for wholesale bans etc but let’s just remember some
Of them have a deeper intent than they show.

They will keep attacking us, while we fight each other. it is time for Pakistanis to unite to meet the menace.

Even on PDF, they try to get others to fight us, while they sit back, preferably a Pakistani, or if not available, then another Muslim origin person.

I will tag you in one thread to show you what I mean.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Gentlemen...please

If you want to understand the "Indian" mindset, the first thing you should do is stop thinking in binaries: an us versus them mindset can never help you understand the real world issues from the other's perspective. This is what creates the echo chamber that we're all now finding in this forum. On both sides, of course.

I myself have a habit of binary thinking: lumping all Indians I dislike with the catch-all word: 'Sanghis'. However I know it's not the correct approach: despite the incredible 2014 and 2019 election results, I am aware not all Indians think alike.

Pakistan is an artificial villain created by Indian right-wing media, Bollywood, and the imagination of social media trolls with vested interests. It surely is a blockbuster formula to be used everytime there's an Indian elections. But every formula has an expiry date: from what I am seeing in recent trends, there is growing weariness even in India on the subject of Pakistan-bashing. Now China is the new imaginary enemy.

Now these are the lumpen masses, the hoi polloi of India who were irrelevant for most years of India's founding. At least Congress never cared about their opinions much. They aren't capable of much, and even though their stupid jahill leader Modi is in charge, we know even when all of them get together, they will not amount to much. In fact, Pakistan has nothing to worry as long as the low IQ leaders of BJP are running the show. They might have found a successful formula for governing this bunch of idiots, but they know next to nothing of how to build something of value. Only Congress can do that: only Congress has ever done that. All the development seen in India today is the result of bright minds in Congress party and their great visions for the country. From Pandit Nehru's five-year plans to Indira Gandhi's Green and White Revolutions, to P.V. Narasimha Rao's economic liberalization policies, and Dr. Manmohan Singh's US-centric business policy tilt which has helped Indian economy. Even Rahul Gandhi had come with a brilliant idea: the MNREGA scheme which guarantees employment and livelihood to rural and semi-urban poor. That scheme has been a roaring success, lifting tens of millions of people out of deep poverty.

In the end, it's only the Congress that has left any tangible impact on the lives of Indians. Not that we receive thanks in return. Narendra Modi and BJP are only capable of destruction of livelihoods: from the stupid demonetization scheme to a flawed GST structure to such shoddy planning for COVID-19 impact (India has 1 million+ cases already soon to become no.1). They just don't have the capacity to think through the real problems.

There are many sane and reasonable Indians who genuinely want peaceful coexistence with Pakistan. We want diplomatic relations, free trade, cultural ties, visa-free travels, and the live performances of Rahat Fateh Ali Khan.

But even sane people have their limits: you cannot expect to burn the Indian flag and expect most sane liberals in India to be OK with that. Although, I personally will have no problem because I have myself burned the Indian flag as a Communist student leader in my youth. Even someone like me who gets called anti-national by his fellow Indians (yesterday, @Joe Shearer disappointed me with his lack of conviction for what I thought was our common cause), has his limits. I draw the line at insults towards Mahatma Gandhi.

That's not going to change. Every person has their own limits of how much you can push them. Even you Pakistanis do: everyone does.

Leave alone Indians, you want to deal with any foreigner, you must know the kind of things that should be said before them, and the topics that are best left alone. You don't really need to understand the mindset of the other person: you should be very clear about your own shortcomings.

Also never be too judgmental. Trust me, you follow these ideas and suggestions. It will change your lives in relation to dealings with Indians, Sri Lankans, Thai, Japanese, insert whatever nationality. It's never a complicated thing to understand the other person.