PakPositivism: How to manage Discourse for PakPosters on PDF!!!

[Nilgiri]

@peagle
@omegalamba7X79
@PAKISTANFOREVER

I have a petition to present.

Please leave India out of your deliberations to manage discourse among Pakistani posters on PDF. Please leave Indians out. I will undertake never to be heard in your midst.

If you bring in India and Indians, I am honour bound to defend my country. Whatever the consequences. Please understand my compulsions; it does not matter if the Modi-fans run away. I cannot.

Take this as a humble prayer.

Joe don't do this. It is a forum, period.

It is for no one to tell/plead other forum members what manner they arrange their discourse or influence further discourse once rules are agreed to and enforced in some manner (to warrant sustained membership of forum in whatever capacity and intensity).

But beyond that....they do what they want and choose to do, and you can choose your response as you see fit too.

Those that have dislike for mobs and mob antics will have natural resistance to this windmill phenomenon you seem very keen on personally charging against lately....but they will keep appearing...there's not much to be done of note this way, they are just windmills...let me be the one on the donkey to tell you so.

Ultimately I suggest you dismount, water your horse and enjoy better activity.... and trust those better souls, whether they be many or few.... you know many of them already.... they always prove their worth...past all manner and din of mob banner and sway....resolute as rocks.

It always has been and always will be that way. Energy must be conserved and dispensed wisely.

 

[Verve]

61% voted otherwise.

You keep throwing this number in the thread.

Questions:
1. What % of Total Indian Hindus favour war with Pakistan?
2. What % of Ganhiites/Nehruiites did not support the wars with Pakistan?
3. What was the above (61) % 10 years ago? Is it not a diminishing 'majority'?

 

[Joe Shearer]

You keep throwing this number in the thread.

Questions:
1. What % of Total Indian Hindus favour war with Pakistan?
Around 15%. That is the approximation of the number of hard-core BJP/RSS voters.
2. What % of Ganhiites/Nehruiites did not support the wars with Pakistan?
Nobody knows. Nobody has polled Gandhians or Nehruvians. Those categories don't exist.
3. What was the above (61) % 10 years ago? Is it not a diminishing 'majority'?

About 69%. Yes, it is a diminishing majority. However, Indian elections have a strong anti-incumbency tendency.

 

[HalfMoon]

You keep throwing this number in the thread.

Questions:
1. What % of Total Indian Hindus favour war with Pakistan?
2. What % of Ganhiites/Nehruiites did not support the wars with Pakistan?
3. What was the above (61) % 10 years ago? Is it not a diminishing 'majority'?

BJP had 2 seats in the 1980s. Now they have 300+ and they want us to believe that BJP is losing?

Anyway it does not matter who wins or loses. All Indians are filthy scum and have visceral hatred towards Pakistanis.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

With all due respect, it is not the right or prerogative of ANY indian to tell Pakistanis what they can or cannot discuss on Pakistani forums. It's NONE of your business. Just like we Pakistanis don't have the right to tell indians what they can or cannot discuss on their forums.

If you don't like it then feel free to leave. No one is forcing you to be on a Pakistani forum.

Exactly. This thread especially does not have anything to do with them, it is about Pakistanis only.

Yet the Indians feel fit to derail even these topics.

Every serious thread is derailed by them.

Sure thing. I was never a product of slavery so never felt to prove anything to anyone may it be language or education.
And if that's the only criticism you have then its fine with me doesn't bother me at all. I speak and understand 5 languages and English is one of them.

It always comes down to mudslinging and insults with Indians. There goes the environment of discussion and discourse.

Indians take everything to the next level. They are extremist by nature. They need to step back and see that the world runs without them too.

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

It always comes down to mudslinging and insults with Indians. There goes the environment of discussion and discourse.

Indians take everything to the next level. They are extremist by nature. They need to step back and see that the world runs without them too.

And we shall respond in such manner too. They lecture us that Pakistan is used as domestic political tool and we should ignore and then at the same time "cold starts", isolation, Sir gi kal strike and Balakot happens. They will never understand our feelings for Kashmiri people. Did you ever come across an Indian who agrees with Pakistani stance on Kashmir? You won't find one. And there is your answer regarding their mentality.
They claim Pakistan can't be trusted and yet infront of them Pakistan's relationship with countries like Malaysia and Turkey which is not based on economic,defence or any other materialistic transaction and they don't get it.
Another example of great land transaction between China and Pakistan both traded land with each other and probably will do in future too.
Regarding a great misconception of Kargil where Indians claim that Pakistan stabbed Vajpai in the back well the answer to that is simple Vajpai was using Pakistan as a tool to Isolate it from China and thought we are naive to fall into trap. Everyone in Pakistan is not as stupid as Nawaz Sharif.
Then they have a problem with Pakistani military, if you happen to defend your country then you must be paid by military or Isi agent because according to their brains no rational Pakistani will defend Pakistan.. And in this very thread one Indian member claimed he is proud to defend his country and sure we respect that and we never say are you being paid by Indian Army or RAW? Because that's a stupid argument and yet its logical argument for them when applied to Pakistan.
What we have here is rare opportunity to discuss the reality of Indian mindset towards Pakistan and how can we unaimaionsly formulate some policy to deal with "Indian Problem" once and for all starting from this forum.
You need to start with physiological analysis so ask them few questions to understand where they stand
1. What do you think about Pakistan and its people.
2. What you think about 2 major wars of 1965 and 1971 who won and who lost?
3. Jf17 is product of ?
4. How did Pakistan acquired its nuclear weapons?
And here are answers
1. Pakistan good people but their military no good after all we use to be same people and wish we can go back to be one.
2. 1965 India won 1971 India won
3. JF 17 is only and solely Chinese cheap product.
4. China gave Pakistan nuclear weapon.

That's the mindset of even the so called intellectuals of India.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The revolution in the minds of Pakistanis has already started, Allah swt has left us with no option and forced us to re-evaluate the life of our nation.
Let us learn and become a nation worthy of our ancestors.
Let us discuss Pakistani identity and the end game as Mangus elucidated. Ignore the Indians for now.

Aya Sofya has been reopened for Ibadet for a reason...

All idols of illusions are getting broken one by one...

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

And we shall respond in such manner too. They lecture us that Pakistan is used as domestic political tool and we should ignore and then at the same time "cold starts", isolation, Sir gi kal strike and Balakot happens. They will never understand our feelings for Kashmiri people. Did you ever come across an Indian who agrees with Pakistani stance on Kashmir? You won't find one. And there is your answer regarding their mentality.
They claim Pakistan can't be trusted and yet infront of them Pakistan's relationship with countries like Malaysia and Turkey which is not based on economic,defence or any other materialistic transaction and they don't get it.
Another example of great land transaction between China and Pakistan both traded land with each other and probably will do in future too.
Regarding a great misconception of Kargil where Indians claim that Pakistan stabbed Vajpai in the back well the answer to that is simple Vajpai was using Pakistan as a tool to Isolate it from China and thought we are naive to fall into trap. Everyone in Pakistan is not as stupid as Nawaz Sharif.
Then they have a problem with Pakistani military, if you happen to defend your country then you must be paid by military or Isi agent because according to their brains no rational Pakistani will defend Pakistan.. And in this very thread one Indian member claimed he is proud to defend his country and sure we respect that and we never say are you being paid by Indian Army or RAW? Because that's a stupid argument and yet its logical argument for them when applied to Pakistan.
What we have here is rare opportunity to discuss the reality of Indian mindset towards Pakistan and how can we unaimaionsly formulate some policy to deal with "Indian Problem" once and for all starting from this forum.
You need to start with physiological analysis so ask them few questions to understand where they stand
1. What do you think about Pakistan and its people.
2. What you think about 2 major wars of 1965 and 1971 who won and who lost?
3. Jf17 is product of ?
4. How did Pakistan acquired its nuclear weapons?
And here are answers
1. Pakistan good people but their military no good after all we use to be same people and wish we can go back to be one.
2. 1965 India won 1971 India won
3. JF 17 is only and solely Chinese cheap product.
4. China gave Pakistan nuclear weapon.

That's the mindset of even the so called intellectuals of India.

Quite succinctly put brother.

The litmus test is Kashmir, and all Indians fail hands down, even our Indian Muslims (although I do respect them.)

Pakistan's policy going forward should be totally based on Kashmir. Any country supporting Pakistan and Kashmiris' claims should be treated as allies, any others should be seen as enemy states. It is really that simple.

Aya Sofya has been reopened for Ibadet for a reason...

All idols of illusions are getting broken one by one...

And you had the Indians jumping up and down and crying over that also.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Your actions are disconnected from your words.

All Indian Hindus are enemies of Pakistan and Islam. Some of you are open about it, and others are hidden, but you all have the same thoughts.

No longer are Pakistanis going to be held hostage by our own mehmandari (hospitality) in trying to bridge gaps and find common ground because there aren't any.

Our Kashmir blood kin are suffering 72 years of brutal oppression and subjugation, Pakistani Punjabis and Muslim Jammu suffered organized genocide pogroms to eliminate our populations. All mostly done by secular Hindus screaming that they are not Godse type RSS goons, but you all are the same.

For the sake of Kashmiri/Pakistani children, the menace of Indian majoritarian terror must be ended now. We cannot push it on our succeeding generations.

If we die, then we die shuhada. Living as a slave under the boot of Hindu dominance is no longer acceptable to proud Muslims like us.

Those two-faced Gandhis and Nehrus who are responsible for the oppression of our people are also fair game.

@Musings @Morpheus @PAKISTANFOREVER @Verve @letsrock @masterchief_mirza

These Indians are again trying to police our rights to speak our own minds, on our own forum.

They are not content by keeping 200 million Indian Muslims under their boot, and also Occupied Ksshmiris. Shameful.

What a negative attitude!

When did Gandhi and Nehru oppress your people? Gandhi-ji died January 30, 1948 just a few months after Independence/Partition.

OK, Indian Army and Pak Army clashed in Kashmir in 1948 when Nehru was PM. But he had no real powers until the Republic of India was formed on January 26, 1950. The country was being run by Mountbatten and C. Rajagopalachari until then.

Besides, it was not really a war. More of a brawling match: Northern tribes of Pakistan occupied some territories, Indian Dogras and Army occupied the remaining. No military helicopters, no tanks, no battle-guns....just a bunch of brawlers. Why should Nehru be held responsible for that?

As for Partition riots, Nehru did everything he could to stop them including in a very famous incident, getting down from his jeep and slapping Hindu rioters., and they soon all shrinked away. The beseiged Muslims went unharmed after that. Despite his ill-health, Gandhi-ji went on a hunger strike to save Muslim lives. In any case, there was little they could have done to control the riots. Do you know how much time it took back then to travel from Delhi to Amritsar? Even in a motorcar? At least 3 days. By the time Nehru reach the scene of riot, everything was finished already. Same way I don't blame Jinnah: despite his best intentions, there was nothing he could have done to prevent the riots on Pakistan side.

Between January 26, 1950 and May 27, 1964 (Nehru's death), there weren't any flare-ups between India and Pakistan. In fact, Nehru visited your country as PM 2-3 times. There were serious efforts to normalize relations (except for Kashmir).

Always playing the blame game some of the Pak side posters here.

@Joe Shearer
Can you please share some data on exactly when Nehru and Gandhi-ji oppressed these Pakistanis? I think their grievances are genuine but I can't find much substance of blame on our side.

Don't get me wrong. I really don't give a hoot if India cancels some art exhibition or some tabla recital by a Pakistani. The point is the tide is advancing in one direction only. Individually they seem trivial, but the summative impact of these little steps is the villification of ANYTHING Pakistani. You may choose to obviate the importance of such machinations but when trying to portray another nation as an absolute and eternal enemy, this would be the precise amalgamation of microaggressions that would result in such a net effect. Modi wants Indians to feel reviled by Pakistan and feel some existential threat from Pakistanis - this is where I sort of agree with @Shantanu_Left , but it's not done merely to win votes, Modi actually believes his election propaganda. To regard Modi's behaviour as mere electioneering is naive.


Brother this is factually incorrect, from my experience. I certainly agree with much of what you say otherwise but it is simply not possible that all Indian Hindus are as such. Now whether or not this minority of friendly and peaceable Indian Hindus has any genuine influence is another matter - I do not think they do. The overwhelming narrative discourse in Hindu India is that which sees benefit from the destruction of Pakistan.

When I say Modi only cares about electoral victories, I'm dead serious. He is a representative of corporate interests in India - a paid employee of Reliance Industries (Ambani Group), and a few others. His very survival depends on how well he serves his company.

A conglomerate of business interests have hijacked Indian state policy since 2014. They don't want any actual wars with Pakistan: that's bad for business. They only want the nationalistic jingoism, and loud sound bytes. It helps their agenda. There's so many times I have discussed this topic on Defence.pk (mostly with Indian posters though).

 

[SQ8]

 

[Shantanu_Left]

My very dear Paks,

Changing world..fast and nearing accute conflicts...be it in Geopolitics/Geoeconomics or Technology.

We need to learn to be eachothers strength and build upon it.

Although, heated debates among Paks is only natural thing, however, it is imperative not to forget that We all are Paks!

Since, the world is shapping itself for new possible Form... we must also learn to adopt to its emerging vectors.

Take for example this 25yrs Sino-Iranian StrategicDeal ... of course, it has far reaching effects... India out...China in! CPEC will transform further.

Or the Liberation of some parts of IndianOccupiedLadakh by the PLA... and its subsequence equations...

Or the rising tensions in SouthChinaSea...

And of course, KhooniVirus and its devastation in loss of HumanLives and destruction of GlobalEconomy.

We need to up our game in discourse here on PDF. Doing the same old, same old is neither mentally challenging nor is fun anymore.

Perhaps, it is important that we Change!

Regarding the good Indians...

I for one support their full presence here...otherwise, we won't be able to know/learn their thinking...even though here on PDF the most of good Indians are rather restrained in their 'thinking' ...unlike BRF or other Indian Fora....

They do try to derail or mock but taking their bait should be passé now.

Please, that DeityCow is Mother to Indians and the byproduct of this Deity is sacred for the good Indians.

By mocking them about DeityCowGifts ... we don't gain anything.

Instead we can choose to show respect and either remain quiet about it or write in encouraging, respectful manner...so that we don't hurt the feelings of the Most Indians here on PDF!

Same goes for DeityMonkey or DeityElephant or anyohter deities that the good Indians worship... we can choose not to comment but show respect.

Our focus must remain PakKashmiris in IoJK and then Muslims of MaqboozaHindustan... we must keep standing up for their rights or voice concerns/outrage at IndianStateSponsored Violence against Muslims in India or Killing of PakKashmiris.

Of course, we need to protect OurIslamic and Ancient Heritage and not allow the good Indians with day-time robbery in their quest for Supremecy!

And that brings us to the question of:

• How Does an Indian mind works?

• Do we fully understand Indianness?

• Can we try to see things from their perspective to be able to better counter it?

• How can we disect this ObssessiveCompulsiveness to be SuperPower by the good Indians?

Understanding the Nemesis is Key to Victory!

Yes, Indians are Incorrigible.... and we just cann't change that.

But we can try to up our game so to speak and try to engage Indians in a different manner...

These are subjects we can try to understand and implement together.

So allow me to invite you, Paks, and let us discuss it among ourselves whether we can come up with a better modus operandi to deal/engage with the good Indians here on PDF...that we might understand Indianness!

Thankyou!!!

Mangus

@masterchief_mirza @Ace of Spades @Areesh @DESERT FIGHTER @newb3e @Verve @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Clutch @Pandora @N.Siddiqui @Chakar The Great @Pakistan First @PAKISTANFOREVER @Max @Rafi @SIPRA Kindly, tag other PakPosters, please.

@jaibi @Foxtrot Alpha @The Eagle @LeGenD @PakSword @BHarwana @Moonlight PakBrothers... if you kindly, let this thread run in Member's section... and patrol it every now and then... would be great help!

Mangus, just a personal thing. Why is your font scheme so bizarro? Have any other users requested you to tone it down a bit. I'm getting the afternoon glare on my screen with your font choice. It it a part of your hybrid warfare against us Indian posters on Defence.pk?

 

[fitpOsitive]

Aya Sofya has been reopened for Ibadet for a reason...

All idols of illusions are getting broken one by one...

Why don't you guys tell the world that this building was bought by Sultan, not snatched. And Christians themselves sold it.

 

[21st Century Vampire]

My very dear Paks,

Changing world..fast and nearing accute conflicts...be it in Geopolitics/Geoeconomics or Technology.

We need to learn to be eachothers strength and build upon it.

Although, heated debates among Paks is only natural thing, however, it is imperative not to forget that We all are Paks!

Since, the world is shapping itself for new possible Form... we must also learn to adopt to its emerging vectors.

Take for example this 25yrs Sino-Iranian StrategicDeal ... of course, it has far reaching effects... India out...China in! CPEC will transform further.

Or the Liberation of some parts of IndianOccupiedLadakh by the PLA... and its subsequence equations...

Or the rising tensions in SouthChinaSea...

And of course, KhooniVirus and its devastation in loss of HumanLives and destruction of GlobalEconomy.

We need to up our game in discourse here on PDF. Doing the same old, same old is neither mentally challenging nor is fun anymore.

Perhaps, it is important that we Change!

Regarding the good Indians...

I for one support their full presence here...otherwise, we won't be able to know/learn their thinking...even though here on PDF the most of good Indians are rather restrained in their 'thinking' ...unlike BRF or other Indian Fora....

They do try to derail or mock but taking their bait should be passé now.

Please, that DeityCow is Mother to Indians and the byproduct of this Deity is sacred for the good Indians.

By mocking them about DeityCowGifts ... we don't gain anything.

Instead we can choose to show respect and either remain quiet about it or write in encouraging, respectful manner...so that we don't hurt the feelings of the Most Indians here on PDF!

Same goes for DeityMonkey or DeityElephant or anyohter deities that the good Indians worship... we can choose not to comment but show respect.

Our focus must remain PakKashmiris in IoJK and then Muslims of MaqboozaHindustan... we must keep standing up for their rights or voice concerns/outrage at IndianStateSponsored Violence against Muslims in India or Killing of PakKashmiris.

Of course, we need to protect OurIslamic and Ancient Heritage and not allow the good Indians with day-time robbery in their quest for Supremecy!

And that brings us to the question of:

• How Does an Indian mind works?

• Do we fully understand Indianness?

• Can we try to see things from their perspective to be able to better counter it?

• How can we disect this ObssessiveCompulsiveness to be SuperPower by the good Indians?

Understanding the Nemesis is Key to Victory!

Yes, Indians are Incorrigible.... and we just cann't change that.

But we can try to up our game so to speak and try to engage Indians in a different manner...

These are subjects we can try to understand and implement together.

So allow me to invite you, Paks, and let us discuss it among ourselves whether we can come up with a better modus operandi to deal/engage with the good Indians here on PDF...that we might understand Indianness!

Thankyou!!!

Mangus

@masterchief_mirza @Ace of Spades @Areesh @DESERT FIGHTER @newb3e @Verve @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Clutch @Pandora @N.Siddiqui @Chakar The Great @Pakistan First @PAKISTANFOREVER @Max @Rafi @SIPRA Kindly, tag other PakPosters, please.

@jaibi @Foxtrot Alpha @The Eagle @LeGenD @PakSword @BHarwana @Moonlight PakBrothers... if you kindly, let this thread run in Member's section... and patrol it every now and then... would be great help!

Came online to take a quick look this morning and i'm checking your thread ever since...saw some idiots trying to touch your nerve, don't mind them bro...

"Say what you wish in abuse of me, for my silence towards the idiot is indeed an answer. I am not at a loss for a response but rather, it does not befit the lion to answer the dogs." - Imam al-Shafi'i

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Exactly. This thread especially does not have anything to do with them, it is about Pakistanis only.

Yet the Indians feel fit to derail even these topics.

Every serious thread is derailed by them.



It always comes down to mudslinging and insults with Indians. There goes the environment of discussion and discourse.

Indians take everything to the next level. They are extremist by nature. They need to step back and see that the world runs without them too.

Which again proves that indians and Pakistanis are FAR too different and incompatible to ever be able to coexist peacefully.

Notice how they are even trying to control what Pakistanis can and cannot discuss on their own forums.........................that is the height of insecurity.

 

[peagle]

Mangus, just a personal thing. Why is your font scheme so bizarro? Have any other users requested you to tone it down a bit. I'm getting the afternoon glare on my screen with your font choice. It it a part of your hybrid warfare against us Indian posters on Defence.pk?

Very funny, actually I quite like it.