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'Pakistanis Love Conspiracy Theories'

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our failures at the intelligence level did lead to changes... where did you come up with nil. Hell we had a 911 report , homeland security being added, TSA taking over airports, patriot act, CIA having a new mandate, FBI involved in it - requirement to share intelligence among all bodies . We even have had 4 different CIA heads in the last decade. We have control over our CIA and FBI not the other way around.

And what 10:1 has the ISI blocked? you are blowing up every other day and that should be unacceptable - really where do you get that ratio from?

Missing persons: ISI, MI counsel says RAW and Mossad involved – The Express Tribune

CIA however is the best agency in the world with an undisclosed budget while Pakistan is a economically stricken country so comparing one with the other is not really reasonable. In that same aspect CIA should not be blamed for the failure during 9/11 however it can be used as an example to show that even the best can mess up sometimes in fact if you look at American history you can see example of various CIA ops that failed however that is how life goes you win some and you lose some also consider that CIA is probably engaged in the most ops the world over and the successes and failures will both be exponentially higher. The other agencies that were created all serve a purpose and Pakistan simply does not have the budget to allocate resources to additional resources.

PS- If you think the Patriot act is to protect us you are horribly mistaken. I am going to borrow Solomon2 signature for that one.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety". - Benjamin Franklin.
 
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so how come ISI is allowing such a high number of attacks to be planned against Pakistan. Why is it not able to attack the source and terminate the risk

And the fact that ISI is so hugely publicized, is itself a failure for an intelligence agency

The ISI cannot stop Western media from publicizing every other failure in Afghanistan as their doing (I have family who have fought in Afghanistan who say there are NO GO zones labelled in black on maps that they cannot even enter, if that is not a failure idk what is?? Although things may have changed now as it has been a few years). You got Al Qaeda planning countless attacks against America daily that are foiled just the same this is not something that can be quickly fixed it is a work in progress. Yemen has basically become the capital of Al Qaeda today and even with all the drones killing them in droves they still can plan attacks against American cities through various plots.
 
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But not powerful enough to safeguard Pakistan from real threats..

It seems you have already made up your mind about how you feel about the ISI so what is the point of you coming over here and talking about them?
 
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The ISI cannot stop Western media from publicizing every other failure in Afghanistan as their doing (I have family who have fought in Afghanistan who say there are NO GO zones labelled in black on maps that they cannot even enter, if that is not a failure idk what is?? Although things may have changed now as it has been a few years). You got Al Qaeda planning countless attacks against America daily that are foiled just the same this is not something that can be quickly fixed it is a work in progress. Yemen has basically become the capital of Al Qaeda today and even with all the drones killing them in droves they still can plan attacks against American cities through various plots.

Then it means that allowing 1 in 10 attacks to go thru is not an acceptable performance.
 
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That's one of the very sad aspects of this job, as my friend said (Quoting some movie, I forget which): "No body hears a word about when we succeed but when we fail, it is ensured that every conscious soul knows about it"
It's tough for me to accept the "privileged knowledge" argument, given (1) the known propensity of Pakistani officials to lie with perfectly straight faces and (2) your slip last week with the bomb-defuser last week, implying he was improperly equipped when the photographic evidence showed he was. Have a care, Icarus.
 
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If the ISI are pricking the bums of Soloman and the Indians, then I must commend them for a job well done.

Thank you ISI. :pakistan:
 
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Why shouldn't we expect to see ISI officials tried for their crimes of today twenty years from now?
They were following state policy.*

"State policy"? Who made that, exactly? Why, the military itself, of course. Politicians have little to do with it. Politicians don’t give orders to the Pakistani military. Recall your oath:

I, Icarus, solemnly swear that I will bear true faith and allegiance to Pakistan and uphold the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan which embodies the will of the people, that I will not engage myself in any political activities whatsoever and that I will honestly and faithfully serve Pakistan in the Pakistan Army (or Navy or Air Force) as required by and under the law.


Not a word about obeying civilians, the Army communes directly with “the people” and applies its own judgment, slightly and very belatedly checked by the Supreme Court. Elected politicians have only a very limited control over appointing commanders and in effect cannot dismiss them. Why expect politicians to accept responsibility for risky operations over which they have no authority? Obviously their only function is to accept the blame when things go wrong or (as in 1971) negotiate the release of Pakistani P.O.W.s when all else fails.

You say times have changed, but given the history what civilian politician can believe anything other than he or she only serves at the military's convenience? Change that damnable oath to obey the Constitution AND the orders of elected officials and duly appointed officers and I'm willing to bet you’ll go a long way towards fixing what’s wrong with Pakistan.
 
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Even Pakistan government is doing this...



Pakistan thinks US has a role in Malala episode


While President Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have condemned the attack on Malala Yousufzai, describing it disgusting and tragic, Pakistani authorities believe the US was equally responsible because of the repeated refusal of US-led Allied Forces in Afghanistan to arrest or dislodge Mullah Fazlullah, who freely operates from Afghanistan and whose henchman have targeted Malala.



According to well informed diplomatic circles in Islamabad, the Pakistani establishment has decided to exploit the Malala assault to its own advantage by reminding the Obama administration that the grisly attack was carried out by the shooters of Mullah Fazlullah a.k.a. Mullah Radio operating freely from Afghanistan despite repeated requests by Pakistan to proceed against him.



Fazlullah had ordered Malala’s assassination for challenging his extremist brand of Islamic Shariah in Swat and opposing the burning of the girls’ schools.



Fazlullah’s spokesman Sirajuddin Ahmed threatened on Friday to kill Malala’s father as well for speaking against them. He confirmed that two assassins from Fazlullah’s special hit squad had been dispatched to target the young schoolgirl. “We had no intentions to kill her but were forced when she would not stop speaking against us”, the spokesman added. The News was the first one to name Fazlullah as the prime suspect.



Fazlullah was the commander of the Pakistani Taliban in the Swat valley but had to flee to Afghanistan in the wake of a massive military operation conducted in May 2009. He then regrouped in Afghanistan and established strongholds in the Nuristan and Kunar provinces, posing a threat to Pakistan once again. He is responsible for a series of cross border ambushes conducted from eastern Afghanistan that have killed more than 100 Pakistani soldiers.



Fazlullah’s gruesome approach can be gauged from the fact that in a cross border ambush in June 2012, his henchmen kidnapped and beheaded 17 Pakistani soldiers and then released a video showing their heads along with their identification cards.



It was on June 25, 2012 that a spokesman for the Fazlullah group had admitted for the first time using Afghanistan as a springboard to launch attacks on the Pakistani security forces. Pakistani military authorities subsequently approached their US counterparts as well as the military commanders of the Nato forces stationed in Afghanistan, seeking the arrest of Fazlullah and the elimination of his hideouts. However, no action could be taken even to contain the growing cross border ambushes of Fazlullah who constantly stays in touch with his followers in the Swat district which is still under the control of the Pakistan Army.



During his subsequent August 2012 visit to Washington, ISI Director General Lt General Zaheerul Islam had focused talks with CIA Director David Petraeus and other senior US officials on the repeated attacks by the Afghanistan-based Fazlullah group in the Pakistani border regions of Dir, Chitral and Bajaur. The ISI chief reportedly provided concrete evidence to senior CIA and American military officials about the hideouts of Fazlullah-led militants in Kunar and Nuristan provinces. He had further sought urgent steps by US and Nato forces to counter the growing activities of Fazlullah’s men, adding that they quite operate freely from the Afghan side of the border despite a heavy presence of the Nato forces there.



Though the American officials came up with an assurance that the Nato forces would proceed against Fazlullah and his alleged hideouts in Kunar and Nuristan, they did remind the Pakistani spy chief that Fazlullah was using the Afghan terrain to target the Pakistani security forces, just as the Haqqani network is using the Pakistani territory as a base to launch cross border attacks on the Nato forces in Afghanistan. In a way, the US officials had drawn a parallel between the reluctance of the Pakistani establishment to proceed against the Haqqani militant network and the unwillingness of the Nato forces to act against Fazlullah.



The US has long accused the Pakistani intelligence establishment of backing the Haqqani militants operating from its soil who cross the border to attack the Nato forces. Islamabad obviously denies the allegations as simply baseless and frivolous. In the process, however, Mullah Fazlullah has re-emerged as a major security headache for the Pakistani military establishment

Pakistan thinks US has a role in Malala episode - thenews.com.pk
 
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As sad as it is, the article hits the nail on the head. I can only feel sorry for the people who have to smell a rat even in the shooting of a young, defenceless child! The Taliban have taken responsibility for the attack, defended it repeatedly and have even taken the pain to issue pamphlets to clarify why they shot Malala. It couldn't have been easier to spot the perpetrator of the crime even if he danced naked in front us while singing "Guilty (1930s Classic), with his weapon stuck up his back side!

I feel for the Pakistanis over this in general (although the Malala ones seem a tad unfair).

First of all Pakistanis are lied to a lot as well.

When the government will keep on hiding facts, ultimately the few points of truths we do know would be connected with whatever that seems possible.

Also the mauka parasti of the government is quite evident (meaning it was not planned but now that its happened, they are extracting full mileage out of it). "Malala is attacked so now its a turning point to attacking NWA". Malala's fight was with Maulana Fazlullah. He attacked her and we should reply by attacking Haqqani Network?

Why the emphasis on NWA op? Why not say we'll hunt down Maulana Fazlullah, no matter where he is - and we all know hes in Afghanistan, not NWA.

They should have an Afghanistan Op ready for Malala, not an NWA op.
 
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In the land of Shakil Afridis and Raymond Davis's there are no such thing as conspiracy theories.

And this is coming from Pakistani living in America and would never in any circumstances move back to live in Pakistan.

:D

"Pakistanis hate the US but at the same time they are in awe of it," a Pakistani student in Karachi told DW on condition of anonymity. "They think that the US has supernatural powers like god. They believe it can do anything it likes; can make people disappear, can create floods, send agents from space." He also pointed out that many of those posting hate material against the US on social media sites would do anything to get a US visa.



'Pakistanis Love Conspiracy Theories'

This part explains it all.

Pakistanis give supernatural powers to America and blame it for all ills and yet will do anything to get a US Visa.
 
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To summarize: There is nothing that can't happen in Pakistan which cannot be explained in a retarded conspiracy theory to blame others.

Its a self immolating wound. Pakistanis will never do any soul searching to rectify the problems that exist within its country as they continue to blame others.

While I can understand the views of the uneducated public, our elected officials and military should know better and take necessary actions to fix the problems rather than going along with the uneducated masses and pretending that all is well in Pakistan and its all outsider influence which is the cause of all problems in Pakistan.
 
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What can you expect from a nation that was made on conspiracy theory of 2 nations. Hindus will kill muslims and everyone who is not a muslim in an enemy. Jewish are biggest kafirs blah bllah. Keep believing all this crap. Anyways man who the ff even cares what Pakistan thinks or doesn't think. They can put all their sins on kafirs and call themselves the doodh ke dhule :lol:.
 
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Actually many in Pakistan still not take Taliban as their enemy.

Outsiders like you who has not even visited many part of your own country India can not and has no right to claim the above that too falsly.

The Pakistanis are braving and resisting the terrorists which no other nation on earth can do or will do.

The support for Malala from Politicians, Ulema/religious parties, common Pakistanis, military well its enough to show that what Pakistanis want.

PERIOD
 
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